Ten Myths About Capitalism, page 3

Pages: << 1 2 3 4 5 6 >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 29 times

reply posted on 4-2-2013 @ 10:50 PM by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
I for one still believe in free market economics and sound money. The problem is we don't have a free market or sound money. We have paper fiat money controlled by central banks and those who control the wealth also control the businesses. Product diversity and business competition is dying off in many industries because these power brokers who control the financial landscape are merging and centralizing all their businesses for total market dominance. Just look at the history of oil companies, or media companies, or banking and financial companies. Slowly but surely the biggest players have merged into huge conglomerates. There's no damn competition left for these people, they own everything and they control everything. That is not capitalism friends, it's the same type of centralization seen in socialism, the only difference is that banks and corporations have all the power instead of the Government.

There is an entire business strategy about finding something that a corporation would find attractive, then selling it to them. People do it with domains all the time. They also do it with small time inventors (a "middle man" that locates an invention, then brokers a deal, right on down to the actual "head hunter" who is used to farm out "talent" research).

Look at all the formerly "alternative" news sites. The internet became far, far less "free" after they were bought up by the major corporations.

reply posted on 4-2-2013 @ 10:56 PM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by lampsalot

Tell someone from Kenya or Uganda or Vietnam or Myanmar that they can't make anything of themselves here and it's all for nothing to try. I'm working a project at school with someone who is fresh enough to America to still have an accent to his English that is tough at times. His enthusiasm for our nation compared to the caste/class system he was born into is infectious.

It may be a HARD road to success but no one claimed it was easy who knew a thing about achieving it. Those who do.....either got elected or speak of what they've never had. I haven't myself, for a lot of reasons. I don't blame my nation for it though. I've made my choices and some were bad ones. We all have to live with those. I've damn sure known and been around true success though. It wasn't gifted upon them like a magic spell and no Government program did a thing to make it for them.

Just my personal opinions from a lifetime of experience.

reply posted on 4-2-2013 @ 11:16 PM by Carreau

reply to post by lampsalot

3 pages of replies and the OP (in his haste to cut and paste a year old column) still hasn't finished copying the rest of someone's work. The title of your thread says 10 myths. Your post cuts off 8 in the middle and there is no 9or 10.

Also if you're going to claim capitalism is so terrible, what is better? Examples? Not to mention that the "10 myths" aren't even true statements.

Myth 1. Under capitalism, anyone who works hard can become rich

The definition of Capitalism makes no such claims.

Myth 2. Capitalism creates wealth and prosperity for all

Again no such claim.

Myth 3. We are all in the same boat

"We" are most certainly not "in the same boat". This thread has proven that some humans are smarter than others. Some people take chances, work harder, get lucky, fail, are lazy, are dumb, ect there are a host of reasons why some people prosper and others wallow.

Myth 4. Capitalism means freedom / Myth 5. Capitalism means democracy

I put those two together because an economic system and a political system are two completely different things, I shouldn't even have to point that out.

6,7,and the part of 8 that you supplied are nonsensical. They have nothing to do with Capitalism.

So in conclusion I suggest you read more up on the subject BEFORE making up your mind and creating threads.

reply posted on 4-2-2013 @ 11:44 PM by sligtlyskeptical

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'll just note here that the Constitution guarantees "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." It doesn't make any promises to outcome. Likewise, Capitalism gives everyone about the same opportunity to make it and get rich. It by NO means promises that will happen. Hard work doesn't make it happen either. A ditch digger can work a lifetime to a broken back and still die penniless and physically ruined. I can think of few things with more hard work than that. (back when people actually dug them, anyway..lol)

However, the next time folks wonder if it can be done? Look at the .com'ers or people before that like Jobs and Gates. No big conspiracy there and if they'd taken the advice of companies at the start about the total absurdity and outright stupidity of their novel idea? Who knows how long until the Personal Computer would have come to life. People with an idea, a niche to run with it in and THEN the work ethic to make it happen. That is what has made more "new money" wealthy people than anything else......and no big secret outside being the one with the next great idea and handling the whole thing right.

Now...where did I put that idea generator? I'm drawing a blank. Hmpf.

Capitalism means that the means of production is owned by capital. It also means that he who owns the capital gets the benefit of making money off of workers labor. If all workers gave it 100% would they collectively have more money and the capitalist they work for have less? No. they get the same and the capitalists gets more. While some workers can escape to become the capitalists themselves, there is simply not room for more than a very small percentage actually getting anywhere. Now that union rights and pensions and such are out the window you can expect the % of those able to break out will be even less.

Bill Gates did not create Windows solely to get billionaire rich. That aspiration kicked in much later once the capitalists got involved in Microsoft. Great inventions will happen regardless and should be rewarded within reason. Bill Gates wealth is not within reason. His invention has gone a long way towards eliminating the working class in America. Ask the 20% un- or under employed if they would trade their computers for better jobs.

reply posted on 4-2-2013 @ 11:47 PM by sirhumperdink

reply to post by Carreau

he is not claiming that this is what capitalism is supposed be but rather pointing out that the proponents of capitalism frequently bring forth these myths as justification for their belief in this particular brand of economics
(also you will find that economics and politics are very very closely related and will frequently behave as a single entity)

hope that helps

edit on 4-2-2013 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 4-2-2013 @ 11:49 PM by polarwarrior

Originally posted by Carreau
The definition of Capitalism makes no such claims.

Of course it doesn't. That is why it was called "myth 1" in the OP and not "definition 1".

The term "myth" in this context is a popularly held belief that is actually false. Many people do believe that under capitalism anyone can become rich, so that myth is prevalent. This thread is about debunking ten myths of capitalism.

You might want to read it again, this time try using a dictionary if you are having trouble understanding the OP.

Not to mention that the "10 myths" aren't even true statements.

Errr, if they were true, then why call them "myths" lol.

edit on 4/2/13 by polarwarrior because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 4-2-2013 @ 11:50 PM by bigfatfurrytexan

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

I bet most would say "No.".

We live in a culture where material items are provided nearly free (free in many cases). You can ink a deal with the devil and walk out with an IPhone with no money down. Right time of year, and you can even score a bluetooth headset.

Yes, you have to work the system. And working your way into the stream of things is difficult. But once you are in, you are golden. LIfe for free, and only a few hoops to jump through. Having another kid? Thats just more money in your monthly check.

I know entire families that operate this way. Aint one of them willing to give up any of their electronics for a job.

reply posted on 4-2-2013 @ 11:56 PM by lampsalot

Originally posted by bronto
Usual rubbish by moaning socialists about evil capitalism ,lazy people who expect the Government to spoon feed and take care of them for the rest of their lives and cant grow out of the '' mummy and daddy is going to buy it for me'' childish mentality
If you work hard under Communism you might have enough to eat if your lucky ,its another BS system concocted by the jews to take everything from the dumb Goyim,just another brain washing episode and lie .Go and get a job and stop expecting other people to give you a Porsche and free house while you are at Uni

This isn't even worthy of a rebuttal.

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 12:02 AM by lampsalot

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by lampsalot

Tell someone from Kenya or Uganda or Vietnam or Myanmar that they can't make anything of themselves here and it's all for nothing to try. I'm working a project at school with someone who is fresh enough to America to still have an accent to his English that is tough at times. His enthusiasm for our nation compared to the caste/class system he was born into is infectious.

Are you saying that just because we're not as dysfunctional as Uganda, we possess the best possible system? Is that the argument you're trying to make?

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 12:03 AM by Kokatsi

Originally posted by TheWrightWing
reply to post by lampsalot

Thanks to Capitalism, our poorest in the US own colour TV's, cell phones, microwave ovens, Nike basketball shoes, are overfed, watch Cable TV, have internet access, etc...

No they do not. I have seen people living in run-down trailers in West Virginia. Even in remainders of trailers cut in half and propped up against the mountain with a small washing area covered by plastic sheets.
Street people and illegals in the US, running in the middle of the night from a rented room.

And in other, less prosperous countries where democracy and neo-liberal capitalism officially triumphed over 20 year ago.
Children don't get fed at school. They have a shoe and plastic sheets with strings for the other foot. At an early age, they eat at home among the dogs in the yard. Yes, TV is their No 1 drug, but they can access it only by stealing electricity. Out of five or six families, they always draw a lot whose father should serve a jail term for the next year's electricity. No mail service, no doctor (far away).

You can borrow from the mafia but they want 100 percent every few weeks. And they have cars and guns and hitmen. You don't even have a bike. If you want more vegetables, you go stealing crops.

And when a whole county is like that, with dirty, rotting buses communing sometimes,

This is part of a capitalist country in the EU.

You can advertise, believe in free enterprise, but no avail. Welfare (food stamps) is so low that it is a catastrophe, and sometimes ceases altogether.

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 12:05 AM by sirhumperdink

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

I bet most would say "No.".

We live in a culture where material items are provided nearly free (free in many cases). You can ink a deal with the devil and walk out with an IPhone with no money down. Right time of year, and you can even score a bluetooth headset.

Yes, you have to work the system. And working your way into the stream of things is difficult. But once you are in, you are golden. LIfe for free, and only a few hoops to jump through. Having another kid? Thats just more money in your monthly check.

I know entire families that operate this way. Aint one of them willing to give up any of their electronics for a job.

wth are you talking about nobody gets a "free" iphone generally you sign up for a 2 year service plan to receive a free or discounted phone and the reason for this is because the service providers makes far far more money off providing the service than they would selling the hardware (unless youre claiming theres some government program out there in some deep dark corner of narnia passing out free iphones and bluetooth headsets?)

and where have you seen a situation in which someone giving up their electronics would net them a job? come on if there "Aint one of them willing to give up any of their electronics for a job." surely you must be able to provide several examples that would back up this claim

edit on 5-2-2013 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 12:18 AM by polarwarrior

Originally posted by TheWrightWing
reply to post by lampsalot

Thanks to Capitalism, our poorest in the US own colour TV's, cell phones, microwave ovens, Nike basketball shoes, are overfed, watch Cable TV, have internet access, etc...

Thanks to capitalism you have those nike shoes? Yes, thanks to those capitalists exploiting the labour of working class people you have those shoes..

Child labour sure is cheap huh, and you gotta love the efficiency of slave labor - America was built on it.

Thanks to Capitalism, I was able to, despite being born to a very poor family, achieve an impressive amount of success and wealth. None of which was handed to me because it was my 'right'.

You were born in America? You were NOT born in a poor family, you don't even know what poor is! Half the world, or 3 billion people live on less than $2.50 per day, and even they are envied by the truly poor of the world

Your country sucks the rest of the world dry like leeches, you were born in the richest country in the world. A country that has directly benefited from slave labor and from foreign invasions and forceful acquisition of resources. Don't give me this rags to riches bs, you've had it good form birth, you probably had clean water! and maybe even food, you might have even had access to a school! no internal war, no bombs falling in your neighborhood, no epidemics of disease (except obesity) Find another shoulder to cry on.

For anyone living in America, it is easy to think capitalism is good, for you are almost on the top of the hill. The crumbs from the rulers fall on your laps first.

edit on 5/2/13 by polarwarrior because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 12:19 AM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

Well, first, I haven't seen capitalism practiced in any way I'd recognize it by the definition since at least Baby Bush's first year in Office. That wasn't really obvious until his second term (Those second terms....yeah...fun). He made it so obvious by then it was not only impossible to miss but impossible to stop. Capitalism would have allowed those companies to fail, fall and others who HAD some strength to buy the pieces and absorb them into functional companies. That's how it's supposed to work. How it HAS worked? Well.... over 16 trillion and climbing without signs of slowing a bit tell that tale in bold print. So lets not start from the base of saying we're seeing anything LIKE capitalism right now. We're seeing an Oligarchy, in many ways...but even that doesn't quite fit. I'm not sure this DOES fit into any specific '-ism' right now. Maybe it's someday recorded as starting a new one?

Not enough room at the top? That's true. It's a good thing the majority don't want and/or couldn't handle BEING at the top. Insulting? Well..it's not meant to be. The truth in my words shows by how many even attempt higher education (which DOES help get there, whatever those who haven't been claim to know about it). Of those who do try, the drop out rate is almost unbelievable. Grad rate where I attend is under 25%. As part of the FAFSA funding application you are required to view the grad rates and performance stats like that. Someone figured it would scare off the ones who aren't serious I guess. It doesn't...obviously...but it sure makes a screaming statement.

TRUE capitalism means that yes, the rich get richer ...but when they aren't bailed out like children getting a second chance, they only GET richer by their companies doing better. That GENERALLY comes by expansion and the hiring of more and more people. That HAS worked in this nation quite well until the last decade and a half or so. Now it's been warped into a nightmare I wish I could wake up from and laugh about.

As another post said though, if not capitalism, then what? Socialism? We aren't Scandinavia. Even THEY have noted that fact for how what works for them among like minded people would never work in a nation as large as ours where people can't even agree on the time of day or weather as it's happening in front of them.

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 12:23 AM by lampsalot

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Capitalism would have allowed those companies to fail, fall and others who HAD some strength to buy the pieces and absorb them into functional companies.

TRUE capitalism means that yes, the rich get richer ...but when they aren't bailed out like children getting a second chance, they only GET richer by their companies doing better. That GENERALLY comes by expansion and the hiring of more and more people.

That's not really true, because the reason the companies were bailed out was because of the power and influence on the government they had gained through - guess what - the free market!

The bailouts are the result of free enterprise in action.

edit on 5-2-2013 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 12:30 AM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by lampsalot

No, They gained the influence in Government because we, as citizens, have allowed it to happen for at least 25 years. More like 40+ to get right down to brass tacks. Apathy and turn outs at 50% or less have insured they can do whatever they please and know only the political hacks even bother showing up....and the fact those in office ARE there to begin with means they can safely assume that won't change any time soon. It hasn't, to be sure.

So...Why not get rich by corruption, I'm sure they tell themselves. No one out here will care long enough to so much as stand a picket and protest, let alone do anything meaningful.

You can't blame "the system" when the system is us and we've failed on every level of the 'duty' a citizen has to be vigilant.......IF we care enough. We haven't and we've gotten what we've asked for. We've gotten a Government running itself and as apathetic to us and we've been to them. Now what? That's the billion dollar brainteaser.

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 12:35 AM by CryHavoc

Originally posted by Carreau

Myth 4. Capitalism means freedom / Myth 5. Capitalism means democracy

I put those two together because an economic system and a political system are two completely different things, I shouldn't even have to point that out.

Yes. This.

Capitalism is a form of Economics.

Democracy is a form of Government.

Unfortunately, when you combine the two, you get a Plutocracy.

dictionary.reference.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Which is the opposite of what our Founding Fathers wanted.

A Plutocracy leans more towards a Feudalistic state which is the exact thing the U.S.ofA. was created to get away from. That and the Church of England.

Those who refuse to learn from History are destined to repeat it.

edit on 5-2-2013 by CryHavoc because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 02:21 AM by FyreByrd

Originally posted by TheWrightWing
reply to post by lampsalot

Thanks to Capitalism, our poorest in the US own colour TV's, cell phones, microwave ovens, Nike basketball shoes, are overfed, watch Cable TV, have internet access, etc...

Thanks to Capitalism, I was able to, despite being born to a very poor family, achieve an impressive amount of success and wealth. None of which was handed to me because it was my 'right'.

So, what are the alternatives to Capitalism? Let's explore them in great detail here, shall we?

If you really believe your first paragraph, you haven't seen (or perhaps ignored) poverty. If that was your 'very poor family', you have more then 90% of the people on the planet.

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 05:07 AM by AlexIR

Yep, we're doomed.

I can't believe there are so many ignorants on these forums and when it comes to the future of humanity and you act like you're a douche that doesn't want to contribute or to think outside the box then we're doomed to live in whatever they throw at us.

You want to know what a better system is? You can't apply and test a new one because the only purpose of democracy and capitalism is to create deeper roots of power for the current system so you can't even think to try a new system without getting into war.

You got you're fancy phone and clothes and appliances because of capitalism? Well yeah, slavery is a part of capitalism and i don't think you are ok with that.

Capitalism is good? I hate to sink your boats, but capitalism is the reason for millions of deaths each year, its worse than communism and fascism and any other form of economic system. In 50 years capitalism will kill more people than all the wars that ever existed in the world since humans started walking on two legs. Why? Because its not profitable to help people, its not profitable to save lives, its not profitable to have peace.

So yeah be a supporter of slavery, famine, poverty, sickness and death if you're ok with it and you think its a good way to live so that you can have you're fancy clothes, fancy phones, fancy appliances and other things we take for granted because of this form of silent mass murder.

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 06:20 AM by Cherry0

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by lampsalot

No, They gained the influence in Government because we, as citizens, have allowed it to happen for at least 25 years. More like 40+ to get right down to brass tacks. Apathy and turn outs at 50% or less have insured they can do whatever they please and know only the political hacks even bother showing up....and the fact those in office ARE there to begin with means they can safely assume that won't change any time soon. It hasn't, to be sure.

So...Why not get rich by corruption, I'm sure they tell themselves. No one out here will care long enough to so much as stand a picket and protest, let alone do anything meaningful.

You can't blame "the system" when the system is us and we've failed on every level of the 'duty' a citizen has to be vigilant.......IF we care enough. We haven't and we've gotten what we've asked for. We've gotten a Government running itself and as apathetic to us and we've been to them. Now what? That's the billion dollar brainteaser.

I'm with Wrabbit on this. He makes a pretty valid point.

There are many that would point all the blame on a system or tool, but the only thing we can blame are ourselves really. We're part of that system. We ARE the system. It should be our duty to stop the corruption and over-indulgence of power; not rely on the very system we're pointing all the blame at to fix the problems. Where has that gotten us so far? Further more, it has gotten so bloated over all these years that it may seem too difficult, impossible even. Well, is it?

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 08:09 AM by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by lampsalot
This pretty much described all the reasons I think capitalism is unfair, and doesn't live up to its promises. If you think the elite are 'socialist' or 'communist' and not the direct end-result of the free market you are sorely mistaken.
edit on 4-2-2013 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)

Really?... Is that why EVERY country and people who have truly embraced socialism and communism has become a dictatorship?...

The one that is sorely mistaken is you... Read up a bit of history, and not from a leftwinger brainwashing book, but from people who actually lived and experienced what people like you NEVER have seen, nor experienced...

There hasn't been capitalism since the LEFTWINGERS installed the Federal Reserve, and gave all power over the economy, Americans, and the world in general to the rich SOCIALIST global elites...

I find it ironic how so many leftwingers complaint about paying taxes they don't agree with yet they are absolutely ignorant to the fact that those taxes are PROGRESSIVE, and were implemented by progressive democrats alongside the IRS, and the Feds...

Leftwingers killed capitalism a loooooong time ago...

edit on 5-2-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)