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The Storm Gathers

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posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 05:00 AM
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Storm clouds are gathering.

It appears that the test bed is New York, after a more or less successful testing in California. California perhaps didn't give a good enough picture - there is a reason they call it "the left coast". New York is telling a different tale, and one that may be more indicative of the nation as a whole.

I'm talking of course of gun control as the straw that may break the camel's back. We are apparently at a crossroads. New York, more than just a test bed for the current push, may well be a view of the nation in microcosm. The legislature shoves through draconian gun control measures in the dead of night, no warning, no appeal, no review. "Emergency measures" I believe they referred to it as. I have to wonder what the "emergency" was that wasn't existent the day before, or the week before, or the month before. I further have to wonder why a "state of emergency" wasn't declared prior to the assault on the people's rights as an "emergency measure".

I don't suppose it matters much at this point - they've done what they've done, and the population seems to be somewhat unhappy about that. REALLY "somewhat" unhappy.

New York, like the nation, is really two separate worlds. The urban maelstrom that is New York City, and then there is the rest of the state. Rural vs. urban - just like the rest of the nation. Two separate realities in one political boundary. The urbanites of New York City seem to be fine with the draconian measures forced upon them daily. That was fine, I suppose, when it was just their looney mayor doing it. Let Bloomberg regulate their drink sizes. That's fine - it didn't affect the rest, and if the urbanites were tickled with it, well, it's their city. Problem is, the entire state doesn't belong to just the urbanites. When Cuomo and company decided to make urbanite gun rules fit the entire state, he appears to have miscalculated.

Just like they will do with the nation.

Watch New York. There are already cries for "non-compliance", and for militia formation. For resistance to tyranny. As it goes in New York, so may the rest of the nation go. Urban needs vs. rural needs. Two separate worlds, and one size does not fit all, no matter how hard they try to shoehorn it in. Already, the governments of other states are standing to say "not in MY state". They, perhaps, know their own people better than New York did. Local law enforcement is standing up to say "not in MY jurisdiction". They, too, may have a finger on the pulse of their own which is absent from the Halls of Power in DC.

As of 1 January, the US has 315,265,000 people in it. The third most populous country in the world, after China and India. 82% of the population is either urban or suburban. That's a lot of people living like ants, piled one atop the other. Looked at another way, 75% of the US population lives on 3% of the land area. That's a lot of unoccupied land area to hide in for the rest. Based on the 2011 US population estimates, 116,970,216 people live in just 20 cities of the US. That's 37% of the whole country, in just 20 cities. It would be pretty easy to control those cities in any sort of rebellion scenario.

In the beginning, that is.

What happens, however, when the "just in time" distribution system breaks down? What do you do with 117,000,000 hungry people when the shelves are bare? 117,000,000 hungry people who are PISSED OFF because they're hungry? What do you do with them when the rural population, that miniscule 20%, decides it's better to hide and fight than it is to bow the knee - and keep growing the food for the other 80%? If you think feeding Katrina victims was a headache, you ain't seen nothing. Try 117 million of them on for size. Let's not even get into the wheat and corn exports that feed large parts of the rest of the world. All that stops. When a farmer is running and fighting for his life, he's not got the time to grow grub for the rest, even if he had the inclination to.

If you keep those 117 million under control and happy, who'se left to whip the countryside into shape? If you instead send troops to whip the countryside into shape, whose left to control just those 20 cities? Either way they turn, their backs are going to be exposed. It's not a zero-sum game, the sum is way into the negative.

And still, they push.

Make no mistake - there will be LARGE segments of the rural population that aren't going to go along with the program. They can feed themselves - they don't give a rat's ass about feeding folks who are trying to enslave them. Trust me - I live out here. I know what the mood is. A slick Chicago lawyer hasn't a clue in the matter, no matter how well spoken he is, no matter how much he tries to claim that he "understands". He doesn't - or he wouldn't be any part of this push to shred the Constitution.

The natives are getting restless. Watch New York. That's the only way we'll know if the storm is going to break or not.

It's just a shot away.





"Gimme Shelter"

Oh, a storm is threat'ning
My very life today
If I don't get some shelter
Oh yeah, I'm gonna fade away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Ooh, see the fire is sweepin'
Our very street today
Burns like a red coal carpet
Mad bull lost your way
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Rape, murder!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Rape, murder!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Rape, murder!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
The floods is threat'ning
My very life today
Gimme, gimme shelter
Or I'm gonna fade away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
I tell you love, sister, it's just a kiss away
It's just a kiss away
It's just a kiss away
It's just a kiss away
It's just a kiss away
Kiss away, kiss away


Population statistics and demographics here.


edit on 2013/2/4 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 06:19 AM
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www.youtube.com...



History repeats itself, but Houston, we have a problem. The people won't be gathering in the streets, not after what happened to the Occupy Wallstreet protestors.

And, not with more and more becoming so dependent on their smart phones. Right now, between phone dependency/laziness, and already mounting fear of government, people are too afraid to protest like they did in times past.

The winds of change have already happened, as well. I don't think any movement will ever garner the fire and unity like anti-war protests did in the 60's. You may have smaller gatherings and protests here and there, but not the literal masses like before.

I agree, and thought this myself, but your post put it into words better than I could. I do think NY is testing the waters for what is to come for the rest of the country.
edit on 4-2-2013 by Libertygal because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 06:27 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


You forgot Detroit, Chicago, Kansas City and St. Louis. All cities in the supposed fly over states that are steadily circling the drain as well. All with strict gun control laws but yet have rampant crime rates.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 06:28 AM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 


I don't think so. DC banned handguns before and there were not massive protests. The Court reversed it and actually applied the second amendment to the States in that pivotal case.

We will see if someone takes NY to court over this and what the judges say. I haven't read what they are trying but there really isn't enough people who care about this for it to become a large issue.

Too much apathy in the country for people to revolt. Especially over something like a little gun ban.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 


It looks to me more like mass protests on a smaller scale, more locally focused. That makes for smaller masses, but more frequency.

You mentioned Occupy. They failed because they had no focus - everyone was going in 7 different directions at once, and, no one could agree on what to protest about. This issue have given a focal point for the rally cries.

It would be better if they listened to the voices of the people. If they did that, no one would have to listen to the gunshots of a young war, Somehow, I don't believe that what passes for government these days is burdened with an overabundance of good sense, though.

Since they pushed just a bridge too far this time, they have to either "stick to their guns", or be prepared to offer more concessions now to placate the anger they have awakened. You see, once the camel's back starts to bow from that one straw too many, it's too late. The bow it forms weakens it, bends it beyond limitations, and more weight has to be taken off than just the one straw that got the ball rolling in the first place in order to relieve the strain.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 06:37 AM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


The only thing about those cities is, the black market guns are so rampant, the criminals all have them. There is not enough people left concerned about their rights to be worried about "the man keeping them down". The people that cared bailed long ago, the ones remaining are either supportive of a nanny state or so afraid for their lives, they think they NEED the nanny state.

By the way, I know I have posted about it a few times, but December 11, 2012, Chicago's gun laws were found to be unconstitutional. They were given 180 days by the Suprene Court to come up with CCW Laws. Time is almost up!

The only problem is the police cheif already said he will train his people to shoot to kill anyone with a gun in their hand, legal or not. So if a good guy stops a bad guy, and holds them till the police get there, it will most likely end in suicide by cop.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by nenothtu
 


You forgot Detroit, Chicago, Kansas City and St. Louis. All cities in the supposed fly over states that are steadily circling the drain as well. All with strict gun control laws but yet have rampant crime rates.



You know, all those cities are in the list of the Big 20 cities I mentioned except Kansas City. All of the rest are contributing to that "117 million" figure. Things are not peachy in any of them, so the power-whores will have to decide whether to turn their backs on the countryside and gain control of those cities, or turn their backs on those violent cities and try to gain control of the countryside. Either way, whichever way they face, there are bad things coming up on their blind side.

I've had recent experience of Kansas City. If you're not a stickler for the law. guns can be bought under the counter in some of the seedier parts of town. I have that on good authority, In spite of their gun laws in place, killings continue apace - something like 5 in the last week, one of those being about 30 feet or so from where I was staying there.

Somehow, I don't think more gun laws or even an outright ban will help them...



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 06:53 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


I absolutely agree with you about Occupy, but I suppose I was more inner reflecting on how they were treated as opposed to thier stance. They, as a movement in general, were stifled, and many had their rights violated. Many also did things no one would be proud of, but because of Occupy, they did make a new law about anti-protest.

I suppose you do have a point about the more local movements, as I do bieve in states rights and the 10th amendment movements. For now, for other states, that has been successful, but NY is still swinging in the wind on this.

I agree about the camels back thing too. Lots of good cliches to go with it, like once you let the horse out of the barn, it is almost impossible to get it back.

The sleeping giant has been awoken, but, my concern is it is like waking up, stretching, and deciding to go back to sleep after going pee and getting a glass if water. Maybe just for a little longer. I want to be wrong about that, believe me.

Why? Because for the simple question I have already seen a hundred times. "Where were you when... NDA, SOPA, ..." etc.

My answer? I was here, others were here, but not enough of us had a big enough voice. That is not so anymore. But, careful what we do with that voice, and we can grow to handle those things along with our other rights. They all mattered, all along. It just took one thing, one straw to break the camels back, as you so eloquently stated.

Now, the deed is done, and, you can't put that horse back in the barn. The government can't. But do the people have the wherewithall? Attention spans seem so short these days.
edit on 4-2-2013 by Libertygal because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by Spookycolt
reply to post by Libertygal
 


I don't think so. DC banned handguns before and there were not massive protests. The Court reversed it and actually applied the second amendment to the States in that pivotal case.


Didn't read the OP, I see. No one out in the countryside cares what DC does or doesn't do re: gun bans. We don't care if they didn't protest - it's THEIR city, THEIR loss. You try to apply that to the rest of the country, there's gonna be a rumble, plain and simple. That was kind of the whole point of the OP - there is a disparity of opinion between urban and rural in this matter, and a "one size fits all" solution is going to bring more smoke and fire than you're prepared to deal with.

In spite of the SCOTUS applying the Second Amendment to everywhere, the power brokers seem to be oblivious to that, and are forging ahead anyhow, simply trying to re-define the amendment to fit their agenda. The argument is evolving into "sure, it applies, but THIS is what it really says". We're not kindergartners. we can read. We KNOW what it says.



We will see if someone takes NY to court over this and what the judges say. I haven't read what they are trying but there really isn't enough people who care about this for it to become a large issue.


You haven't been paying attention. I've not heard anyone say "take it to court" - after all, who runs the courts again? Isn't that the same government that just banned a whole lot of stuff in NY? Looks like a stacked deck to me. Instead, they are saying "We are not going to comply. Molon Labe". There do seem to be several people more than you seem to think who care - meetings have been packed, standing room only, and lined up out the doors. NONE of those people were happy about it.



Too much apathy in the country for people to revolt. Especially over something like a little gun ban.


Well, just have at it then, If the evidence of your own eyes and ears won't convince you, then I suppose it will take something a bit more convincing - just like the OP says. ignore those voices at your own peril. They sound to me like they've had enough. if you can't hear it, then they are likely to raise their voices louder until you do.




edit on 2013/2/4 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Your assuming that the second amendment prevents regulation of firearms.

It does not, just that they cannot all be taken away.

"The right to bear arms" is quite different then "The right to bear any and all arms."



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 07:05 AM
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reply to post by Spookycolt
 


You bring up some excellent points, many I agree with. I think, as one poster pointed out, it is more localized right now.

Chicago's gun ban just got overturned in December for being unconstitutional, so yes, all it will take is someone to fight it. I would have to search for it, but I believe I saw an article that an attorney has already filed a lawsuit.

I do believe we will never see massive protests like we did in the past, though. Not only because of apathy, but also because if a divided country.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 07:05 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


The divide and conquer thing is starting to backfire on them I think. As you have said, they are pushing too hard and too fast. And while the ones doing the pushing may be currently in charge, they are also in the minority.

I am starting to hear things in the past two months from traditional Democrats, (not liberals), that are making me raise my eyebrows in surprise. I live in the Cleveland area, a Democratic bastion.

But I am also hearing a few of my liberal acquaintances who are doubling down on stupid. Among my circle of friends who include pretty much every stripe you can think of, the opinions are getting out of control. It's wild to watch.

I believe that you are correct. A storm is gathering and it will only a short period of time before we start hearing thunder, and shortly after that, lightning.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


I can only say I hope you are right.

Not because I choose conflict over peace, but because I want the people to make it known in no uncertain terms there are lines we will not allow to be crossed.

As I said, I am all for states rights over Federal law. Anything states have allowed them to do can be revoked, as it was allowed, and in some cases forced but the states remained silent.

The time to remain silent is at an end. I just hope it goes further than 2nd amendment and encompasses more like Obamacare, NDA, SOPA, and all the other unconstitutional things that were levied upon the people.

It needs to be about more than guns.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 07:19 AM
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I read your whole OP and down the thread. It's with a very heavy heart...I have to agree. There is a storm coming and it's looking like a real bad one. It's feeling much like I imagine they felt in 1861. No one knew then, as now, just what would start things moving to the next levels in all this or what would bring it to a head. In reading contemporary accounts? Everyone knew trouble was coming though. By the time some goober fired a shot at Fort Sumter, it was just the technical start of things long building and needing an outlet to release.

I'm kinda caught between big city and small town here. In Southwest Missouri, we're a bit of both and as red as a Washington state Apple. I've heard people I never considered "radical" talk about preparing ..and not for any natural disaster but for that first shot. I've heard people I know to be well grounded and reasonable saying they won't comply and will fight. At least one of those gentlemen pins on the badge of law enforcement every day. I'm given to understand the sentiment isn't a unique one to him. At least not in this area. I have NO idea how it actually is in other areas. The media already has us buried in B.S. and sitting in the dark in so many ways I feel like a mushroom sometimes.

I hope we're wrong OP. I really do. This is nothing to look forward to ...nothing to want. However, your also right in saying it's what is being pushed and try as any of us might, it doesn't seem to be a course with much room for change or redirection. Efforts to do so just redouble the efforts to charge ahead, damn the torpedoes and public opinion.

Bad Bad times we're entering.....aren't they? I think most can almost feel it by now. At least far more than is comfortable to hear now talk about such things openly and in public. I never thought I'd hear that in this nation. It's surreal.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by Libertygal
reply to post by nenothtu
 


I absolutely agree with you about Occupy, but I suppose I was more inner reflecting on how they were treated as opposed to thier stance. They, as a movement in general, were stifled, and many had their rights violated. Many also did things no one would be proud of, but because of Occupy, they did make a new law about anti-protest.


Occupy got that treatment out of exasperation, a couple of months into it. Even after a couple of months, no one had any focus, or even any really concrete, addressable demands. No one knew what they were protesting about, only that it was getting out of hand and no one knew quite why, I tried to engage them here to get a handle on it, and couldn't. Wall Street tried, too, and never could figure out what they wanted for real. "For you to starve" is not an acceptable or addressable parameter.

Seriously - I think if they had been able to come up with an addressable grievance, they would have gotten their redress. It was a good idea, gone horribly wrong for lack of focus.



Why? Because for the simple question I have already seen a hundred times. "Where were you when... NDA, SOPA, ..." etc.


I protested SOPA - a lot of people did, and it failed. Now they have to repackage it, which I'm sure they will. When it comes, we'll have to protest that, too.

The NDAA I seriously haven't been able to find a problem with, and no one has been able to point it out to me - they just say "well read it!" I did.
It doesn't say what they are telling me that it does, or if it does I've not been able to find where, and they haven't been able to point it out for me.

I raised hell about the "Patriot Act". It got through anyhow. Can't win 'em all.



My answer? I was here, others were here, but not enough of us had a big enough voice. That is not so anymore. But, careful what we do with that voice, and we can grow to handle those things along with our other rights. They all mattered, all along. It just took one thing, one straw to break the camels back, as you so eloquently stated.


That's just it - it's like a snowball collecting more snow. All of these things are building up, into a critical mass which at some point will be well nigh unstoppable. Everyone can say "what about this?" or "what about that? Where were you then?" but it's the aggregate of the individual problems accumulating that will at some point set the trigger off. They can point at individual problems all day long and try to invalidate the concept on this or that single issue...

... until the mass of all the aggregated issued rolls right over them.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by Spookycolt
reply to post by nenothtu
 


Your assuming that the second amendment prevents regulation of firearms.

It does not, just that they cannot all be taken away.

"The right to bear arms" is quite different then "The right to bear any and all arms."


I'm not assuming anything at all. I didn't get to be this old by making assumptions. The class of arms which may be borne was already determined in United States vs. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939). Who may bear them was determined in District of Columbia vs Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008).

No assumptions necessary, I can read.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


US v Miller didn't really decide anything. Depends on what side you fall on for your argument, both sides cite that case for precedent.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


I'm hearing some unexpected things out of some democrats as well, thing I never thought I'd hear out of them. It does a body good!

I don't know, however, if it's so much the "liberals" who are doubling down on stupid as it is the progressives. They are getting stuck on stupid, and digging it deeper every day it seems. They are at one end of the extreme polarity developing, and I suppose I'm at the other end. When things get polarized like that in storm clouds, lightning is the usual result.

It will be up to the calmer folks in the middle to bring sanity back into it. Now, I can give, to a degree. Can the opposition? In all fairness, though, most of what I can give on is really just the more outrageous and outlandish distortions that the progressive try to end arguments with. For example, I can give in the area of nuclear weapons - I don't want one. I can give in the area of drones and fighter jets - I don't want any of those, either.

Man portable small arms? Those are ALL fair game for private ownership as far as I'm concerned. Progressives don't seem to like me much on account of that.



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 07:52 AM
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If you ask me, you are spot on.


People are going about their business, not knowing that financial collapse is right around the corner. How many people know how to make a loaf of bread from scratch? How many people know where to go to buy the ingredient, or where the ingredients comes from? Not many actually. Rural folks have always had a better understanding on the pulse of America. They might seem backwards at times, but when it comes to being prepared, they have city folks beat by a mile.

Yes, the storm does gather and so many are blind to it all. You don't have to be paranoid to be prepared, or to know its coming. Just look outside your _

S&F



posted on Feb, 4 2013 @ 07:54 AM
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Great thread op, well thought out and worded. I am here in NYS have been for the past 35 yrs and what you say is going on is going on. The divide between NYC and the rest of the state is glaringly obvious. You have a concentration down there of people who just run around all the time not seeing the bigger picture. And the rest of the state is tired of being legislated and ignored because what flies down in the big city, doesn't in the country, which composes 90% of the state, just the concentration of people in the city is higher of course. Us country folk have spoken and we are pushing with all our might against this law. To the posters not from around here rest assured this thing has only begun. People are out in numbers, actively voicing their opinions and demanding a repeal. But like any other conflict there is the possibility of a stray spark taking this thing to a whole new level one that could prove deadly in fact. Just wanted to get the message out that this is not just empty promises by the public, we are at a position to lead the rest of the country by example and we will seize the opportunity. And all of this doesn't even take into count the legal side of things, yes we have that avenue covered as well via several class action and other lawsuits filed against the traitors that passed this bill to begin with. S&F






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