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Germany asks will Queen say sorry?

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posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 10:03 AM
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Germany asks will Queen say sorry?
Fri 29 October, 2004 05:44

By Alexandra Hudson

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germans are waiting to see how the Queen refers to Britain's 1945 bombing of Dresden when she visits next week, now that they are speaking more of their own war-time suffering and breaking a long-standing taboo.

Just days ahead of the Queen's first visit since 2000, a row has erupted in the British and German press over whether the air raids were justified and whether the monarch should apologise.

Dresden was devastated in a firestorm which killed some 35,000 people just three months before the war's end. The fate of the eastern city has come to epitomise civilian suffering.

"Will the queen say sorry?" asked the country's largest selling newspaper Bild on Thursday.

The queen will host a concert in Berlin to raise money for Dresden's cathedral which lay in rubble for 50 years and is now a focus of German and British reconciliation.

"Such delicate gestures of reconciliation are probably too complicated for newspapers like Daily Mail and Daily Express to understand," wrote the Berliner Zeitung daily.

ANGER IN BRITISH PRESS

Talk of an apology has angered populist newspapers.

"Krautrage" said a headline in the Daily Star tabloid.

"Sorry, the Germans must never be allowed to forget their evil past," wrote columnist Simon Heffer in the Daily Mail.

A Buckingham Palace spokeswoman was quoted in Germany's Der Spiegel newsmagazine saying the Queen had not been asked for an apology. But she added: "The Queen is very conscious of the suffering of all people during the war."

The queen's three-day visit aims to focus on the future relationship of Britain and Germany.

On a visit to Britain two weeks ago German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer said he was amazed at the lingering portrayal of Germany in the British media as a nation of Nazis.

It was long considered unwise and even dangerously nationalistic for Germans to question whether Allied bombings were necessary or legitimate but German historian Joerg Friedrich did just that in 2003 in a
best-selling book.

Reuters


I know the Japanese apologized to the South Koreans for WWII crimes a couple of years ago, but then again, they were the losers.

The US apologized for interment camps.

Should the UK apologize for Dresden?




posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 10:14 AM
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No one expects an apology. It was war, it seemed neccesary, that's it.
Although it was truely a great tragedy.
I think it would be a nice gesture if the queen apologized, the german and british actions of the last 60 years however show that an apology is not neccesary for us to have a good relationship.

But It is really interesting to see the weird image of Germany that some British Newspapers have.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 10:22 AM
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I dunno.

If the germans apologized for hurling V-2 rockets into a church while families were praying, then i suppose it wouldnt hurt to apologize for Dresden. Dresden was kinda crappy, and didnt have any real military value.

So long as both sides apologize, I dont see why not.

of course, that was 60 years ago.....kinda long time for apologies. What is the point anyway? Everyone invovled in it is probably dead or senile anyway.........



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
So long as both sides apologize, I dont see why not.


- I completely agree.....and I'm pretty sure Germany has apologised.

It's interesting to see how Germany is (with the very odd few exceptions of course) today. From a ridiculously militaristic society to a cerebral informed and restrained society. Very impressive I'd say.

This is in marked contrast to the figure cut by such risible buffoons as Simon Heffer in the UK and his ilk in the UK press. A ludicrous man who has been attempting to look and sound as if in his late 60's since he was 21yrs old and for whom no out-dated long forgotten attitude is not worth clinging to as if it were current (beyond the handful who still hold such 'values).

The war is long over, thankfully the suffering is almost done by the remaining survivors on either side and whilst I agree that the wicked acts of the then German governemnt should never be forgotten as examples of what man is capable of inflicting on his fellow man this has nothing to do with almost every German alive today.

Similarly the bombing of Dresden stands IMO as a symbol of that tragic period and our ability to do the most appalling things to each other.

These things should not be forgotten and we should, rightly IMO, broaden the point out now to recognise that our capacity for the grossest inhumanity and barbarity was not and is not confined just to Europe in WW2.

Never again!



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 01:52 PM
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Of course ----people should remember that the Queen's family are mostly Germans (their family name "Battenburg" deliberately was changed to "Windsor-MountBatten" during the 1st World War to hide this fact) descended from the Hanovers (starting with the "imported" German King George 1st in 1714-1721 who spoke no English)

Also, Lady Diana Spencer (later Princess Diana) was actually "more British than the Queen" since she could trace her family tree through the Stuart line via her father......which led her brother to pronounce at her funeral: "here was a Vedddddy Brrritttish Gaaallll" to the chagrin of the present Queen in the audience who twitched noticeably at that remark !!

As for never forgiving "Germany" about something that happened in the last century---it's time to move on...

When was the last time an American Indian reminded the US of their own genocidal policies (1810 to 1910) which wiped out 90% of the native population----- to say nothing of the extermination policies of ancient Israel placed in to YHWH's mouth in the Torah of the Jews who did a little exterminating and genociding of their own it seems-----even down to the present day (read: Deut chapter 20 and Deut chapter 13 a few hundred times in English if you cannot read Paleo Hebrew for yourselves without vowells).

Should we be cutting off Israel's $12Billion alowance every year because of what Hitler like things THEY did to the Amalekites and the Gugi#es and the Jebusites and the Hittites and the Amorites (that is, if you can believe the racist vomit in the book of Joshua)?

Time to rebuild, people. There are loose nuclear bombs out there in the world running wild.

And Dresden (being the Capital of SAXONY) would be a great start to the whole process of mending fences, political and racial, between Ayran and the non-Aryan rest of the world.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 01:59 PM
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In her decision (or her government's) to offer apologies, the Queen will have to weigh in the fact that her own father, King George VI, could've been killed in 1940 when the Germans bombed Buckingham palace.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 04:19 PM
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If it helps mend a few bridges and put things to rest, she should. It was 60 years ago, both sides did things they aren't proud of but seemed necessary at the time.

I agree with Sminkeypinkey, some of the press in this country are complete idiots. Stirring up nationalistic fervour about things done in the past does those in the present no good.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 04:29 PM
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Without trying to sound childish but they started the war

After sixty years doesn`t really matter.
If she was to apologise would it be meaningful or just a political PR stunt.Would she apologise on behalf of the nation,we really need to no if the nation is sorry or not before an unelected leader makes the assumption that the nation is sorry.Why would it then be our decision.The people who took part in the war are the ones who would be required to answer but l would guess that what there take of the war compared to people who never experiance war never mind that war would be unrepentant.

[edit on 29-10-2004 by weirdo]



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 04:34 PM
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the queen(god bless her)to apologise to germany?.your having a laugh,i think.why should great britain apologise for ridding the world,of one of the most brutal regimes in history?.instead of apologising,she should warn them of the consequences of ever trying anything like that again.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 04:44 PM
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Is Prince Phillip going too? He's usually good at being tactful, and I'm sure he can be at his best here.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

This is in marked contrast to the figure cut by such risible buffoons as Simon Heffer in the UK and his ilk in the UK press.


I'm sure he'd call you a buffoon as well


I believe that we should apoligise that situation arose, and that we should learn the lessons it provided and pray such a thing will never seen to be nessacary in the future.

Let the past rest, but let us never forget the lesson it has taught us...



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by Irma
Is Prince Phillip going too? He's usually good at being tactful, and I'm sure he can be at his best here.


Prince Phillp tactful? Isn't he famous for making racist statements?

EDIT: Grammar

[edit on 29-10-2004 by curme]



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by colinonu
.why should great britain apologise for ridding the world,of one of the most brutal regimes in history?


Not apologise for removing the nazi regime, apologise for the carpet bombing of Dresden and the killing of 35,000 civilians. Like I said, if we can come to terms with the past (by apologising) we can look to the future. It has no cost to us and will lay a few ghosts to rest.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by colinonu
.why should great britain apologise for ridding the world,of one of the most brutal regimes in history?


- We should not and I do not believe we ever will.

Thats not what we are talking about.


Originally posted by Chris McGee
Not apologise for removing the nazi regime, apologise for the carpet bombing of Dresden and the killing of 35,000 civilians. Like I said, if we can come to terms with the past (by apologising) we can look to the future. It has no cost to us and will lay a few ghosts to rest.


- 100% agree.

Living in Ireland I can tell you that the apology for the behaviour of Britain's government during the potato famine did mean a lot to many many Irish people when Tony Blair gave it.

(and that was quite a long time ago.)

You might not see it but I bet many on the recieving end would/do.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by Chris McGee

Originally posted by colinonu
.why should great britain apologise for ridding the world,of one of the most brutal regimes in history?


Not apologise for removing the nazi regime, apologise for the carpet bombing of Dresden and the killing of 35,000 civilians. Like I said, if we can come to terms with the past (by apologising) we can look to the future. It has no cost to us and will lay a few ghosts to rest.
dresden was a legitimate target.ive never heard any reports of german bomber crews,turning round from attacking targets in britain,because they were concerned about civilian casualties.or does britain not have any innocent civilians?



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 05:49 PM
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Some of Prince Phillips Quotes.

"How do you keep the natives off the booze (alcohol) long enough to get them through the test".Speaking to a driving Instructor in Scotland.

"Still throwing spears".Question to an Australian Aborigine.

"Everybody was saying we must have more leisure time.Now they complaining that they are unemployed".During the 1981 recession.

"If a cricketer for instance suddenly decided to go to a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat,which he could do very easily,I mean do you ban cricket bats".In 1996 amid calls to ban firearms after the Dunblane shooting.

"It looks like it was put in by an Indian".In 1999 refering to an old fashioned fuse box during a visit to an Edinburgh factory.

"Deaf?If you are near there no wonder you are deaf".Referring to young deaf people in Cardiff near to a school steel band.

"If it has got four legs and it is not a chair,if it has two wings and it flies but is not an aeroplane,and if it swims and is not a submarine,the Cantonese will eat it".Said at a World Wildlife Fund meeting.


You gotta love the guy



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 05:55 PM
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in his biography prince albert - er i mean phillp remarked..."i would like to be reincarnated and come back as a deadly disease to the human race!"

i cannot believe he gets away with this!!!1

as for the queen saying sorry - no chance!!!

she found it hard to say a few words for Diana after she was killed and the speech she made was written by the same muppet that writes for Tony Blair!!!



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:07 PM
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Great post Wierdo. Can't wait for Prince Phillips' Basil Fawlty impression when they're in Dresden.

Germans: Do you have to keep mentioning the war?
Phillip: You started it.
Germans: No we didn't.
Phillip: Yes you did, you invaded Poland.
etc etc etc.....



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by Irma
Great post Wierdo. Can't wait for Prince Phillips' Basil Fawlty impression when they're in Dresden.

Germans: Do you have to keep mentioning the war?
Phillip: You started it.
Germans: No we didn't.
Phillip: Yes you did, you invaded Poland.
etc etc etc.....


Wouldn`t you love to be there if that happened


Are you taking bets on how long you can keep Bollocks in your sig



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by bluemeanie
she found it hard to say a few words for Diana after she was killed and the speech she made was written by the same muppet that writes for Tony Blair!!!


Well, in her defence, Diana was a mentally ill, attention seeking adultress who almost ruined her family. I would've been hard put to get a few good words together apart from 'she did some work for charity'.



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