BEATLES MYTHS : Fifty Years of Fact & ‘Fab’-rication

reply to post by mirageman


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Originally posted by mirageman

John Lennon had little regard for religion. His infamous comments in 1966 “Christianity will go, it will vanish and shrink. I needn’t argue about that. I’m right and will be proved right. You just wait.. . .We’re more powerful than Jesus ever was..”

That is not what he said, and not what he meant.

He did not say the Beatles were more powerful than Jesus. What he meant was religion was dying, and people were paying more attention to pop stars, etc., than they did Jesus. He just used Beatles as an example. He wasn't comparing the Beatles to Jesus or mocking Christianity, he was pointing out something he saw as a bad thing, the lack of interest in religion. In the UK it wasn't a problem because people understood what he meant, in the USA though they obviously had a problem comprehending the English language.

John was very much interested in religion, in fact he was obsessed with it. There is no such thing as making a deal with the devil.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by mirageman

John Lennon had little regard for religion. His infamous comments in 1966 “Christianity will go, it will vanish and shrink. I needn’t argue about that. I’m right and will be proved right. You just wait.. . .We’re more powerful than Jesus ever was..”

That is not what he said, and not what he meant.

He did not say the Beatles were more powerful than Jesus. What he meant was religion was dying, and people were paying more attention to pop stars, etc., than they did Jesus. He just used Beatles as an example. He wasn't comparing the Beatles to Jesus or mocking Christianity, he was pointing out something he saw as a bad thing, the lack of interest in religion. In the UK it wasn't a problem because people understood what he meant, in the USA though they obviously had a problem comprehending the English language.

John was very much interested in religion, in fact he was obsessed with it. There is no such thing as making a deal with the devil.

I assume you decided to jump in on the mistake (rather than go through the whole thread which admittedly is a long one).

I admit this was a misquote and I hold my hands up to that one.

I addressed this twice the last time being here in this same thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The deal with the devil is probably a piece of fabrication as well which I also addressed here in the thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If Lennon was obsessed with religion then the proof is in his lyrics. The trip to India in 1968 ultimately ended with his dissatisfaction at the behaviour of the Maharishi and Lennon writing the song Sexy Sadie, heavily disguised on the White Album, but can be heard in it's origins on this Bootleg here.



Don't forget Lennon also wrote;

"God is a concept by which we measure our pain" "I don't believe in Jesus", "I don't believe in Bible"and "......No hell below us and no religion too"

Lennon was very much anti-religion if he was obsessed with it and I doubt very much he saw the disinterest as a bad thing even in 1966. I too don't believe he was comparing the Beatles or mocking Christ but I don't see anything in his life that points to any real strong religious beliefs.

reply to post by mirageman


I posted that before I realised this thread was so long, so no I didn't read past the first page, sorry.

Being anti-religious does not mean you have no interest in religion.

He would have never sang about it at all if he had no interest in it. He obviously had issues with religion, his lyrics about it show that. It's why he went to India, and Wales, in the first place. He was very interested in religion, and was trying to deal with it through his song writing.

Why did he even make the Jesus quote he got in trouble for it he wasn't interested in religion? He was struggling with his beliefs, like many who see the hypocrisy of organised religion, but still can't completely deny the existence of a higher being.

reply to post by ANOK


I see where you are coming from now.

This sort of takes this thread in a different direction but it's a great point for debate. I have to agree that John Lennon did seem to have some sort focus on religion for many years even though I've alway seen it as a negative one. Perhaps he was looking for the eternal secret and felt cheated that he couldn't find it in the organised religions?

He did stay on in India with George after Ringo and then Paul eventually left.

Kudos for making me think about it in a different light.

Originally posted by mirageman
Kudos for making me think about it in a different light.

No probs mate, thanks for not getting defensive.

I think John might have thought about God a lot due to the death of his mother, and his best friend Stuart Sutcliffe. John felt guilt for for Stuarts death, because he had kicked him in the head during a fight. I also heard somewhere that John and Stuart were more than just best friends.

Sept 8th 1977 - Attempted Assassination of Paul and Linda McCartney

This is a very contentious story that I didn’t include in the original post.
However with the recent re-release of “Wings Over America” and the accompanying Rockshow DVD/Blu-Ray release then perhaps it’s time to put it out there.

In 1976 Wings were at the height of their popularity and touring the world. Paul McCartney finally returned to play live shows in America a decade after he played his last note at Candlestick Park in 1966 with the Beatles.


The line-up of Wings had changed through the early 1970s but was arguably at a pinnacle in 1976, with the ever present McCartneys and Denny Laine, alongside new drummer Joe English and the raw talent of young Scottish guitarist Jimmy McCulloch in the lineup. The 1976 tour was a massive success for McCartney and Wings. However shortly after the tour Joe English departed during the recording of the “London Town” album. Jimmy McCulloch also left Wings before the year 1977 was out, citing a desire to branch out on his own.

“With Wings I was virtually an employed musician, working mainly in the studio. With the birth of the McCartneys' son I realized it would be some time before we ever toured again. And that's the side of a musician's life I like best. I left amicably. I don't think anyone was too upset about the parting. We had some very good times together. Though Linda doesn't know much about music, she's really a nice chick. And I certainly learned a lot over the past two years.”

Yet , it seems, that this was rather at odds with the truth. McCullough did not quite see eye to eye with Paul McCartney. There had been arguments in the past. It also has to be pointed out that Jimmy McCulloch was a hard drinker, used illegal drugs and was subject to violent mood swings. Although Paul McCartney and Denny Laine had both tried to curtail those self destructive tendencies during his time with Wings, they ultimately failed.On Sept 8th 1977 the band were at the McCartneys' farm for sessions on the “London Town” album. McCulloch resented being bossed around and finally lost it.

He decided that the accommodation was far too spartan. He had no hot water, no TV and an old stained mattress to sleep on and this annoyed him no end. He was after all now a rock star. After consuming large amounts of Scotch, McCulloch collected his illegally obtained handgun, cleaned the barrel, placed the gun in his coat pocket and then sometime after 11 pm stumbled out into the night. He approached the bungalow where Paul and Linda were sleeping only to alert the dogs after tripping over his own feet in his, by now, heavily drunken state. McCullough whispered the dogs’ names to calm them down and then continued towards an open window. He stared in at the former Beatle and his heavily pregnant wife and then lifted his loaded gun. His finger slowly pressed on the trigger and then he began to shake. The shaking became violent and he could no longer focus. He couldn’t go through with it and turned round and headed towards the creak on the McCartney farm. Turning the gun on himself he decided to end it all there and then just as the lights from Denny Laine’s van filled the night skies. An exhausted and disorientated McCulloch dropped the gun. His time with Wings was over.

Two years later on Sept 27th 1979 Jimmy McCulloch was found dead in his London home from heart failure caused by a mix of drugs and alcohol. An inquest held in November 1979 recorded an open verdict, leaving suspicions of foul play. None of the offending drugs in his system were found in McCulloch’s flat. His brother Jack, who had found Jimmy’s body stated that the security chain had been broken and he felt someone had been in the flat when his brother died. Speculation in the industry went further and hinted that someone with “a huge grudge” may have eliminated Jimmy.

clip Courtesy NME - 1979

As ever I will leave people to make their own minds up as to how much truth there is to the whole story and Jimmy's suspicious death.


Sources :
Geoffery Giuliano – Blackbird, the Life and Times of Paul McCartney
Gary McGee - Band on the Run

This is a shameless bump in tribute to the late great George Martin.

The true 5th Beatle who passed away today aged 90.

The man who produced the soundtrack to his life and a part of the soundtrack to many millions of other lives.

Rest in Peace Sir George Martin!