Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden

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posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 12:42 PM
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Well now that he's out of the administration, Panetta comes clear about enhanced interrogation. Among the various tactics that led to the capture of Bin Laden, water boarding was one of the tactics that enabled the information to be obtained. What part of the total information that was collected was collected via these methods? Who knows. Perhaps it was the most important component, perhaps it was responsible for information that was of limited value.

He is admitting that it did in fact have a role to play in giving Obama one of his most hyprocritical campaign themes "GM is alive and Bin Laden is dead!" All the while hammering the use of these methods. No different than hammering the components of the Patriot Act while a Senator and candidate for his first term and then upon being elected, triples down on the Patriot Act.

www.thegatewaypundit.com...

"Today on Meet the Press Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta admitted that information gleaned from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him.


“The real story was that in order to put the puzzle of intelligence together that led us to Bin Laden, there were a lot of pieces out there that were a part of that puzzle. Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used. But the fact is we put together most of that intelligence without having to resort to that.”

I'm just wondering why it took him to finish his term to provide this insight. Perhaps it was an oversight on his part.




posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 01:39 PM
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First allow me to say that "boasts" would probably be more accurate than "admits."

And even that's giving the benefit of the doubt to pathological liars. Quite frankly, I believe that Panetta knows more about 9/11 than OBL ever did.

OBL, assuming that he was even still alive on that infamous night and was murdered in his bed, had outlived his usefulness to this government; his only remaining use was to serve as a sacrifice to Obama's re-election. I have no doubt that his whereabouts were known continuously since 9/11 (that is, assuming he wasn't already dead around 2003, as reported)--to be sacrificed at any moment that his sacrifice was necessary to whomever found it necessary to give themselves a boost.

And that's how much credence I give to Panetta....



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 01:52 PM
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Gotta justify torture somehow.


I wonder how many will now come out in support of the US using torture to procure information now that this crap comes forward.

"Well, we think it's good to use torture since we caught the boogeyman with it"

So easy to sway public support when holding all the cards isn't it?

Peace



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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Hurray! They stooped to the lowest possible level, torture, and became what they claim to be fighting against in the process. But they found OBL, so its all good.

Another case of claiming the ends justify the means. We, as americans, need to demand better.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 02:00 PM
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Hang on.. Why are we even discussing his statement regarding OBL being killed in Pakistan?

Surely nobody above the age of 5 believes in government Fairy Tales?

And don´t you have to be over 5 years old to post on ATS?

What´s going on?
Something doesn´t add up.... again!



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 02:15 PM
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I am amazed by the amount of people on ATS who are posting information about the assassination of Bin Laden more than two years after it happened like they are posting new information.

The historical narrative is very clear that information obtained using “enhanced interrogation techniques” the nasty euphemism for torture is what lead the CIA to the “Kuwaiti” Bin Laden’s courier. It was through first identifying the courier, locating him and following him that they eventually learned of Bin Laden’s location.

But again, it’s not new information in any case. Also the interrogations of KSM and Hassan Glu took place in 2003 and 2004 respectively, it is they who provided this information to the CIA although they did not learn of its significance until 2007 and even at that it was not until something like 2010 before the CIA SAD guys found him and started following him. Any of the torture that led to Bin Laden’s death as far as the official story is concerned took place on Bush’s watch not Obama’s. Do I really believe that the CIA has stopped torturing now that Obama is in charge, no.

That said however it was torture under Bush that led to the information that identified the courier not Obama. The claims that “Obama caught Osama” are rubbish, he didn’t, neither did Bush it was the CIA that found him in a hut that spanned both administrations and it was DEVGRU that went in and done the dirty. Obama i think does deserve some credit for giving the green light for the operation but that is about it.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 02:18 PM
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I make no friends or allies on ATS, of all places, by my stand on this and I know it. Tough cookies. It's the truth how I see it and it's how the world works in a good % outside the borders of "civilized" society who deny such things are done in their name. They are and always have been to some extent. The difference since 9/11 is in making it an unofficial official policy which everyone knows about, yet doesn't exist.


Previous societies have had an instrument of law called a "Torture Warrant" or similar things to function in the same way. First. lets dispense with the feel good fantasies that this doesn't happen and hasn't ALWAYS been happening. Fantasy is all that is to believe and self delusion is how the Third Reich came to be. History means everything in this debate above all others.

Given the fact this DOES happen...like it or don't, admit it or not? We have two choices as a society.

#1. We can let "those who know best" do their thing in the black shadows of national security, never to be disclosed to ANYONE if they aren't basically busted in the act or...like here..someone pops off thinking it's a "I'm special" moment to brag. . . . OR . . .

#2. We can acknowledge the reality and true ugly nature of war and maintaining the national security of a nation, ANY nation, in the world we live in. Here, we can choose to regulate, control and bring accountability to a process that has little or none of it now.


Number 1 is what we've always pretty much had here and stories range clear back into World War II, through Korea and Vietnam to the present wars. It happens. it always has. In secrecy, there IS NO CHECK. There ARE NO BALANCES. There is NO accountability in a sense that gives the term meaning. Someone is tortured to DEATH? Errr... "oops". Good thing no one knew or ever will know, huh?

Number 2 takes our collective head out of the sand to face a reality...yes..REALITY...most would love to pretend is a Bush invention or some crazy nonsense. They'd like to pretend this doesn't happen, right now, as we sit here ...and won't continue to happen into the future, well beyond our lifetimes.


Should the circumstances be limited? YES. Exceptionally so. That IS the point. Limited by pre-established criteria of circumstances which, in cold and unemotional reasoning out of the passion of the moment, are put together. Should it happen at all? YES.

In very rare cases where the good of ONE is in balance to the certain or near certain deaths of MANY non-combatant innocents, I'll do it myself if no one else has the stomach for it. I'll go have lunch when I'm done and consider it a day well spent, too. If I know kids lived because some scumbag's life became an unbearable, intolerable HELL for awhile? It's well spent time indeed.

TORTURE WARRANTS would require court review (FISA Court works for me...CNN doesn't need the abstracts in real time), adjudication and MOST CRITICAL...accountability for who, why and what result came from it all later. Abuse is, by definition, something that approach creates a clear trail to follow and prosecute later, should people get too damn happy with hurting other human beings.


Finally...This is the MAIN point everyone argues on this and history shows both true and false, in my opinion. Torture FAILS ....but it also WORKS. It depends on approach as I've read and understood the history of it. IF someone is "damaged" beyond the point THEY KNOW they'll ever be released or CAN be let go? It's no value and just hurting someone for the pleasure of doing it within some very sick minds. IF however, it's never taken that far and they KNOW they may very well walk free again (as events show, they DO often enough to know it's no lie) ....while at the same time KNOWING the interrogators WILL BE BACK to start it all over again if the info turns out to be lies said just to make it stop? It tends to work.

However this all goes, I think ONE thing is true and we can ALL agree. It's time this whole topic be taken out of the dark shadows as a general question of policy and worked out, in light and with logic. Do it ...don't do it...how to, if so? ALL fair questions, but policy questions. This is being done IN OUR NAME. We have every right to be a part of the general debate of how it should be done ....or not done...as the nation determines with all the facts.

That's my take and I'm stickin' to it.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


Woo hoo, thank God for water boarding. Other wise all that intelligence would go to waste.

AND

Who can we water board to find Bigfoot ?
edit on 3-2-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 





We, as americans, need to demand better.


I think they should at least take a little more time deciding what story to go with and what lies will fit that chosen story. For God sakes they are getting paid.
edit on 3-2-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 03:35 PM
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They could have just asked CNN to track him down. They did it easily before, I'm sure they could have done it again, if asked.




posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 

Hey happy birthday Randy, it's my bday too! Here's to hoping for a win for the niner's and nothing else too exciting.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 03:55 PM
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Water-boarding did no such thing.

OBL had expired in 2001.

His 2001 expiration is common knowledge in many places of the world.

edit on 3-2-2013 by ResistTreason because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by ResistTreason
Water-boarding did no such thing.

OBL had expired in 2001.

His 2001 expiration is common knowledge in many places of the world.

edit on 3-2-2013 by ResistTreason because: (no reason given)


Agreed, Bin laden in early 2000s, i am getting tired of these lies even as an Canadian citizen.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 04:37 PM
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Why was bin Laden buried at Sea when the gruesome bodies of Kadafi and Saddam were so proudly displayed in the media?

Remember....

The first casualty of war is the Truth



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 04:41 PM
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Torture has been proving unreliable unless you have literally hundreds of subjects to build a basis of consent from.

The French proved this in Algeria. People basically just say whatever you want when under torture and you need a large sample to corraberate the information.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by jude11
I wonder how many will now come out in support of the US using torture to procure information now that this crap comes forward.


I've said it a hundered times here already - I don't want to hash out the details yet again. I personally was involved in the use of enhanced interrogation in sessions. It works.

Torture does not work, everyone knows that - enhanced interrogation does work. There is a fine line between the two though and the intricacies of that are best left the professionals who know what that is.

Acting in concert, a team of interrogators, investigators, lawyers, doctors (Psych and MD's) can skirt the line without crossing it. If that tool is taken away you have taken away the best tool we have for manipulating the source - fear of the unknown.

The announcement that we will simply ask terrorists (after reading them their rights of course) nicely if they have any information they'd like to share was a huge blow to the HUIMINT community.

The fear of the unknown is what makes people break; the perception that the interrogator has no limits is usually enough for most (98%) of the subjects to break and spill the beans. The threat or implication of something that triggers a subject’s fear is usually enough.

I have interrogated more people than I can remember but I would say I used enhanced methods on less than 1:100 of cases and then it was hardly ever something physical like water boarding that is more like 1:1000. It also takes national command authority to approve it...

I never tortured anyone; however, after the new Obama impediment became effective I know people have been tortured for sure at the hands of our allies and associated nations who have no such restrictions on their activities.

The unintended consequence of the ban against enhanced methods was it virtually ensured that the detainees would be vigorously and genuinely tortured as we had to then outsource the interrogations – we were not in control and a lot of these people don’t involve doctors or any controls at all.

Pretty much all I'm going to say this time. I’ve flogged the horse on ATS enough about this – either you accept it or don’t. Either way the point is moot. None of us are in a position to change the status quo.



edit on 3/2/2013 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by olaru12
 





Why was bin Laden buried at Sea when the gruesome bodies of Kadafi and Saddam were so proudly displayed in the media?


There I s quite a bit of conflict as to weather a burial at sea was fitting with Islamic tradition, some Islamic scholars argue that it is permitted while others say it is not. What is true is that the body had to be buried within 24 hours of death and without any burial marker and no state was willing to take the body or could do so in the time required by Islamic tradition. It is also true that there is a historical president for burial at sea of Muslims but again there is a strong argument from some scholars that it is not fitting with tradition.

That said however, I would like to highlight that in the case of Gaddafi and Saddam both only had their corpses displayed by the people of those states. Gaddafi’s body was shown by the rebel movement, not by the American government. Saddam’s death was shown in a video that leaked by a spectator who shot and then posted it online, again this was not done by a American official. So to perpetuate to argument the argument that “they” showed us the bodies of Saddam and Gaddafi is something of a false premise as the assumption is that by “they” you mean the united states government who were not the ones that showed us either of their bodies. I know this does not mean that they did kill Bin Laden that day rather all that information does is invalidate one argument.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin


There I s quite a bit of conflict as to weather a burial at sea was fitting with Islamic tradition, some Islamic So to perpetuate to argument the argument that “they” showed us the bodies of Saddam and Gaddafi is something of a false premise as the assumption is that by “they” you mean the united states government who were not the ones that showed us either of their bodies. I know this does not mean that they did kill Bin Laden that day rather all that information does is invalidate one argument.


By "they" I mean the US media. I don't think much gets put on national media regarding war that isn't sanctioned by the military propaganda machine. Why no photographs or videos of the vanquished foe. We love that kind of stuff.
edit on 3-2-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by olaru12
 





I don't think much gets put on national media regarding war that isn't sanctioned by the military propaganda machine. Why no photographs or videos of the vanquished foe. We love that kind of stuff.


Well the media only got hold of that footage because it was released into the public domain, the American government has not yet released the photo of Osama’s dead body so they have nothing to report. I remember shortly after his death a fake photo of a dead bin laden circulated in the press some news outlets ran with it for a short period before retracted it because it was exposed as a fake.

Using the argument that “we saw pictures of Saddam and Gaddafi why not Bin Laden, could it be because they didn’t kill him” is not really a particularly strong argument. The absence of the photo to me is not really an issue, if it was released then people would be saying “ahh that could have been taken years ago” or “it’s a fake”. If it were the case that the death of Bin laden had been faked then it would make much more sense for the government to have faked a photo and realised that to add evidence to their cover-up. Conspiracy theorists say the videos and audio-tapes were fakes, why not a fake photo to add substance to their alleged cover-up?

So for me I have to say the absence of a photo does not matter as either way if we had one or if we don’t have a photo both could be used to argue some kind of cover-up. As it is it makes much more sense for the government not to publish, as it would open up the “it’s a fake” conspiracy and at the same time probably annoy some in the Islamic community who would see it a disrespectful to a fellow Muslim. I think it is inevitable that eventually someone is going to get the photo released through FOI and then we will just open up a new can of worms.

Again the fact that we saw Gaddafi and Saddam’s corpse really just is not an issue.
edit on 3-2-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 06:14 PM
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But the can of worms is ALREADY open. It's been open ever since December, 2001, when Bin Laden was reported in various Arab newspapers to have died in hospital and to have been buried and ever since bogus videos purporting to show him (including that version of some fat actor hired by the CIA because he faintly looked like him). One of the neighbours of the compound where the CIA's impersonator lived said shortly after the so-called "assassination" that the estate was owned by someone he had known for many years and that this person was the man who appeared in one of the released videos showing him watching TV.

The waterboarded information led to the patsy the CIA kept for the occasional video release to ratchet up al Qaeda tension when needed. It was NOT Bin Laden.

And THAT'S why the photo of the dead man was never released. The world would have noticed the wrong guy even amidst all the blood and gore.





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