I make no friends or allies on ATS, of all places, by my stand on this and I know it. Tough cookies. It's the truth how I see it and it's how the
world works in a good % outside the borders of "civilized" society who deny such things are done in their name. They are and always have been to
some extent. The difference since 9/11 is in making it an unofficial official policy which everyone knows about, yet doesn't exist.
Previous societies have had an instrument of law called a "Torture Warrant" or similar things to function in the same way. First. lets dispense with
the feel good fantasies that this doesn't happen and hasn't ALWAYS been happening. Fantasy is all that is to believe and self delusion is how the
Third Reich came to be. History means everything in this debate above all others.
Given the fact this DOES happen...like it or don't, admit it or not? We have two choices as a society.
#1. We can let "those who know best" do their thing in the black shadows of national security, never to be disclosed to ANYONE if they aren't
basically busted in the act or...like here..someone pops off thinking it's a "I'm special" moment to brag. . . . OR . . .
#2. We can acknowledge the reality and true ugly nature of war and maintaining the national security of a nation, ANY nation, in the world we live in.
Here, we can choose to regulate, control and bring accountability to a process that has little or none of it now.
Number 1 is what we've always pretty much had here and stories range clear back into World War II, through Korea and Vietnam to the present wars. It
happens. it always has. In secrecy, there IS NO CHECK. There ARE NO BALANCES. There is NO accountability in a sense that gives the term meaning.
Someone is tortured to DEATH? Errr... "oops". Good thing no one knew or ever will know, huh?
Number 2 takes our collective head out of the sand to face a reality...yes..REALITY
...most would love to pretend is a Bush invention or
some crazy nonsense. They'd like to pretend this doesn't happen, right now, as we sit here ...and won't continue to happen into the future, well
beyond our lifetimes.
Should the circumstances be limited? YES
. Exceptionally so. That IS the point. Limited by pre-established criteria of circumstances which, in
cold and unemotional reasoning out of the passion of the moment, are put together. Should it happen at all? YES
In very rare cases where the good of ONE is in balance to the certain or near certain deaths of MANY non-combatant innocents, I'll do it myself if no
one else has the stomach for it. I'll go have lunch when I'm done and consider it a day well spent, too. If I know kids lived because some
scumbag's life became an unbearable, intolerable HELL for awhile? It's well spent time indeed.
TORTURE WARRANTS would require court review (FISA Court works for me...CNN doesn't need the abstracts in real time), adjudication and MOST
CRITICAL...accountability for who, why and what result came from it all later. Abuse is, by definition, something that approach creates a clear trail
to follow and prosecute later, should people get too damn happy with hurting other human beings.
Finally...This is the MAIN point everyone argues on this and history shows both true and false, in my opinion. Torture FAILS
....but it also
. It depends on approach as I've read and understood the history of it. IF someone is "damaged" beyond the point THEY KNOW they'll ever
be released or CAN be let go? It's no value and just hurting someone for the pleasure of doing it within some very sick minds. IF however, it's
never taken that far and they KNOW they may very well walk free again (as events show, they DO often enough to know it's no lie) ....while at the
same time KNOWING the interrogators WILL BE BACK
to start it all over again
if the info turns out to be lies said just to make it stop?
It tends to work.
However this all goes, I think ONE thing is true and we can ALL agree. It's time this whole topic be taken out of the dark shadows as a general
question of policy and worked out, in light and with logic. Do it ...don't do it...how to, if so? ALL fair questions, but policy questions. This is
being done IN OUR NAME
. We have every right to be a part of the general debate of how it should be done ....or not done...as the nation
determines with all the facts.
That's my take and I'm stickin' to it.