Should domestic cats be eradicated to protect wildlife?

@ riverwild
Just the crazy cat ladies

I'm just imagining far away on another world at a conference in a large alien hotel a scientist is at this moment up at the lectern.

"My fellow scientists...As you know, we have been studying this planet called Earth for going on fifty years now. This emergency meeting has been called to decide whether or not we should eradicate this pest called humanity from the planet. Humans have caused irreparable damage to the planet and all of its diverse species for far too long. Millions and millions of their own species have been killed in the thousands of wars they have fought for no good reason. Millions upon millions of other species have been made extinct through the activities of so called progress. Humans have filled the oceans with oil and radiation not to mention total overfishing. Huge swaths of land which used to house millions of diverse species have been paved over to support massive human cities creating giant hives that produce nothing but a giant nest in which they just amuse themselves with films and music!"

At the end of the conference it was determined that visits to earth would be totally subsidized if upon return the visiting parties had collected more than 500 human pelts!

I would love New Zealand to have no predators at all.

That would be a terrible idea. Predators are an important part of a balanced ecosystem. I hope he is just talking about domestic predators.

Originally posted by Night Star
Don't people put bells on their cats collars? Their prey would hear them coming and take off.

Not all New Zealand native birds can 'take off', especially fledglings.
Our national icon, the Kiwi, for example, is flightless.
However, rats, mustelids and introduced birds are a huge part of the problem in the decline of our native species as well.

Maybe we should get to the root of the problem and eradicate humans?

After reading all the responses on this thread so far (the good, the bad, the ugly, and the freaking psychotic), I want to weigh in as a cat rescuer who currently has 9 cats out here in the country.

Cats are predators, it is what they do. Some have a high prey drive and hunt for fun. Others are a bit lazier and don't do much hunting. I notice that the cats I rescued that came from feral colonies have high prey drives, they are amazing at what they do. The ones from human neighborhoods tend to be less interested in constant hunting, especially since they are well-fed. However, even the smart ones cannot seem to catch birds that easily. Because, you know, birds can fly away, and cats don't have wings.

Because of our location in the south central US, we see a great many types of birds who migrate, depending on what time of year it is. Some of the birds tend to be of lower intelligence, and those get caught easily. Some are highly intelligent and have a social network in which they warn each other when they see one of my cats. They actually tag-team the cats in order to protect their nests. The intelligent ones survive, and the dumb ones get eaten. Very simple.

Because we're surrounded by farm fields, my cats also eat mice, large rats, and moles that are incredibly destructive with their holes. Other farmers have commented that we have the only lawn in the area that isn't riddled with holes. Because the rats and mice are eaten, we do not have a snake problem. My kitties definitely earn their keep.

Concerning New Zealand, I have a few thoughts on this. First of all, according to local farmers where I live, the amount of birds around here has really decreased in the past decade, and they blame it on GMO seeds and the pesticides they must use to battle the bugs. The farmers plant the GMO seed, which is also coated with pesticides. The birds flock down and eat the seeds, and IT KILLS THEM. If you've ever seen a bag of GMO seed, there is a warning list a mile long concerning the fact that any animal who eats the seed WILL DIE. Period. There has been a huge die-off of species once native to this area because of the GMO problem. Birds also sicken and die when they attempt to eat from farm fields that have been sprayed with poison.

Could it be that cats are being used as a scape-goat for industrialized farming's crimes against nature? Think about it. Many cats just aren't that good at hunting birds. Out of 9 cats, I only have 2 that don't suck at it, and those cats only get lucky and catch birds that are stupid. They never catch the smart ones.

I just don't see where cats can be blamed for the dessication of bird species, when I'm pretty sure that the pesticides and GMO seeds are killing more than their fair share of them. New Zealand isn't really going crazy with GMO planting...YET....but they use nasty pesticides which cause bird deaths, which have been proven.

Rather than looking at the chemical poisoning, this twaddle-for-brains Morgan fellow is blaming cats, an easy and defenseless scapegoat.

Oh, and to the cat killers out there. Watch your backs. Karma's a b!tch.

Originally posted by ForestForager

I've killed several cats in my time that I've found wandering around my old neighborhood that may have been someones pets, I didn't care... if it's not on a leash or in a house, I consider it a stray and a threat to local wildlife. Don't get me wrong, I love cats, but they are predators, and need to be controlled. If you are going to let your cat out and wander, please collar it with an attached bell. That simple measure will spook its prey, and I may let it live to return to its semi-responsible owner (semi-responsible because any animals considered pets should NOT be wandering around off of your property).

edit on 3-2-2013 by ForestForager because: (no reason given)

I want you to know that there are some people that would hunt you down, torture and kill you for hurting their animals. Extremely slow, and very painfully. Shoot you up full of amphetamines so you don't pass out from the pain, and really have some fun destroying you and those that you love. You might want the think twice about the repercussions of your actions before you start killing peoples house pets. You are just an animal, too and can be subject to your own policies.


Ok. This was an emotional reaction and I admit an unenlightened response. While I will not apologize to a pet kiIler, I will say that what I said was wrong. I truly hope you realize that it is not ok to just shoot someone's animal. Animals escape all the time and owners will go to great lengths to try and find their animals. Does this practice extend to a neighbors dog that chews through their leash or collar?

No and no more than people should be eradicated to protect livestock, chicken and pigs...justsaying

reply to post by ForestForager


People who kill for no other reason than to justify their own agendas leave me with little hope
for humans to evolve. People like you need mental help.

reply to post by guardian_of_neobablon


Well said!!!!

I just didn't have the balls to say it (I really don't have any balls being a female and all that!)

@ gangdumstyle

Unless you change your tactics, you're not going to be on ATS for long. Seen too many like you come and go. There's something about newbies that just HAVE to add wording prefacing the term "member" that is a signal for here today, gone tomorrow.

Stereotypes add nothing to the discussion. We get it. You hate cats and would love to see them all killed. Anything else to add to your highly intellectual stance, or is hate and death and rude posts the extent of it?

Originally posted by guardian_of_neobablon

Originally posted by ForestForager

I've killed several cats in my time that I've found wandering around my old neighborhood that may have been someones pets, I didn't care... if it's not on a leash or in a house, I consider it a stray and a threat to local wildlife. Don't get me wrong, I love cats, but they are predators, and need to be controlled. If you are going to let your cat out and wander, please collar it with an attached bell. That simple measure will spook its prey, and I may let it live to return to its semi-responsible owner (semi-responsible because any animals considered pets should NOT be wandering around off of your property).

edit on 3-2-2013 by ForestForager because: (no reason given)

I want you to know that there are some people that would hunt you down, torture and kill you for hurting their animals. Extremely slow, and very painfully. Shoot you up full of amphetamines so you don't pass out from the pain, and really have some fun destroying you and those that you love. You might want the think twice about the repercussions of your actions before you start killing peoples house pets. You are just an animal, too and can be subject to your own policies.

edit on 3-2-2013 by guardian_of_neobablon because: (no reason given)

As anyone knows that have read my replies...I don't like the fact (forest...) has killed cats.

However...I do not agree with your stance either. There is an old saying...(2 wrongs don't make a right).

ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!!

We expect civility and decorum within all topics - Please Review This Link.

You are responsible for your own posts.

Originally posted by FissionSurplus

Unless you change your tactics, you're not going to be on ATS for long. Seen too many like you come and go. There's something about newbies that just HAVE to add wording prefacing the term "member" that is a signal for here today, gone tomorrow.

Stereotypes add nothing to the discussion

You just stereotyped me in a thread about cats, i have stated my position. that is all... have fun defending cats until they eat your pet bird then you'll change your own attitude

What about car-based lifestyles, suburban sprawls... and the entire techno-industrial civilization as far as I'm concerned???

But yeah, cats (AND DOGS) need to be sterilized as much as possible, and sterilization should be made affordable and accessible for everyone. In some countries it's still a costly service offered by money-hungry veterinarians so it doesn't solve the problem at all.

Eradication? Beyond sterilization, killing other living beings when unnecessary is a violent CRIME. This is not a solution.

reply to post by ollncasino





^ Think twice before banning cats, mmmkay?

A 2-cat per household limit, fixed only, except for show breeding, should be good. An example: in California in the US, there is a 3 cat limit. Granted, there are ignorant crazy cat ladies and men in that state, breaking the law daily, and cat-worshippers that think a cat's life is worth more than a human life, but the system works for the peace of mind of humans, not exactly wildlife. It keeps everything fair for everybody there.

New Zealand could make cat-ownership illegal, but then there would be more feral cats, which would then become wildlife and dominate the rest of the system. If it becomes illegal to own a cat imagine what the smuggling would look like, and there may even be an overpopulation of certain wildlife.

What is with the bird-worshippers that think a bird's existence is worth more than a cat's existence?

I used to have cats and they never brought home birds (might have found feathers once though). Big bugs, maybe. Half-chewed mice, sometimes. Live mice, occasionally. If New Zealand ever has rodent problems, a rodent plague could happen. I'm reminded of the rodent plagues of Australia.



Kitty, or mouse? Pick one.

Originally posted by ForestForager

I've killed several cats in my time that I've found wandering around my old neighborhood that may have been someones pets, I didn't care... if it's not on a leash or in a house, I consider it a stray and a threat to local wildlife. Don't get me wrong, I love cats, but they are predators, and need to be controlled. If you are going to let your cat out and wander, please collar it with an attached bell. That simple measure will spook its prey, and I may let it live to return to its semi-responsible owner (semi-responsible because any animals considered pets should NOT be wandering around off of your property).

edit on 3-2-2013 by ForestForager because: (no reason given)

You ever stop to think the cat might be declawed and without the ability to be a predator? Maybe he just likes to go outside at night ever once in a while, and has no problem finding his way back home (unless some punk kid gets a kick out of skinning him alive), and thus does not need a collar?

Have fun killing pets because they walk on your property.

people that are capable of killing someones pet are generally a rather sadistic
and twisted human being! I use the word 'human being' lightly in this instance!

My daughter has two cats, one in particular is her baby boy, That cat loves her and she loves
him!
I am aware every time he goes outside that there maybe some monster lurking, ready to entice
him to his death. Sick Sick human... You know who you are!

Im surprised this made it onto ATS front page.

Gareth Morgan is a rich, aging man wanting to mark his stamp on history. He does this sort of thing regularly and usually what he does is a good thing, he'll dump money onto getting humanitarian measures setup and the like for underprivileged children and other such causes.

But this cat thing of his is stupid.

And the way he is attacking this shows its more of a 'come hell or high water' issue for him than anything that is actually rational. I mean the guy was mentioned in the paper the second week this was being talked about as saying if he, after coming back from his trip to China hadn't gotten what he'd wanted, he'd begin phase 2 of his idea... I mean the guy won't take no for an answer. Not to mention every time he's been interviewed ive seen little or no actually numbers for his argument just vague percentages and emotive hyperbole language like 'slaughter', 'kill for fun', 'Cats just love to kill things' and other similar phrases to deride cats (yeah dogs and humans love to kill things also).

I mean last week in his last interview about this he basically spat the proverbial dummy (pacifier for you Americans) on live TV when he realized he wasn't getting the reaction he wanted and said that the SPCA of NZ was by saving cats, killing the wildlife of NZ off and that they should no longer be given any funding. He even said he'd give them 5$ for every cat they put down... although interestingly he had to bite his words when he said it since he appeared to be about to use another less palatable word...

Gareth Morgan offers to pay for cat euthanasia

Whats funny is Mr Morgan and his 'team' seem to completely forget that feral cats in NZ are now part of the eco system and are by their nature Rodent killers (cats HAVE to eat rodents to survive, they contain a very important nutrient), along with Rats, Mice, Rabbits and Stoats. Rats and Stoats kill more native wild life than domestic cats do... but guess what eats the Rats and Stoats?... the feral and domestic cats.

I own 10 cats currently, over the last 10 years we rescued 4 feral kittens, 2 kittens where dumped domestics (1 was dumped down a long drop toilet to die and another was found wandering the side of a country road) and our others where made up of proper domestic cats we acquired from litters (2 being our originals that replaced our old cats when they both died of cancer 10 years ago).

Of those 10, 4 simply dont hunt (and will only take a kill from one of the others) another 2 occasionally try to but are pretty crud at it and have caught probably only 6 or so animals between them since we got them and of the 4 rehabilitated feral cats only 3 of them hunt actively the other one (smallest of all our cats) doesnt even leave the house 90% of the time.

Over the last 10 years our cats have caught uncountable mice, 10's of rats, probably less than 150 blackbirds (non-native), 100's of Wax-eyes (native non endangered bird, extremely prolific breeders) and Finches, at least 6 Rabbits and 1 Tui, 1 Fan Tail (both types of native bird that are extremely hard to catch for cats and ours simply got lucky, I witnessed both those kills) and 1 King Fisher which again was a very lucky catch.

Killer cats: Does the science back up the claims?

And as the scientist in that piece indicates, its the ratio you have to look at, but Mr Morgan doesnt do that or even mention it and just lumps it all into 'Native Birds' after all it makes his argument bigger and more alarmist by doing so (not to mention omitting the fact Cats domestic and feral keep the REAL threat to native birds in check).

His views on Catch, Neuter and release are misguided to, and being used simply to shock people who know little about what it actually does (ie the SPCA stood up to him so in Phase 2 he'll shock people into no longer supporting them 'oh the horror they release feral cats back into the wild!'), a neutered cat maintains a territory just as aggressively as feral cats. If you catch a feral cat and then put it down all you do is make a territorial gap that more feral cats come into and breed and increasing the issue of feral cat populations. A released neutered feral has no breeding capacity and it maintains a zone of exclusion for other feral cats pushing the boundary of feral cat populations outward and stopping wandering males from breeding... not to mention neutered felines live longer than their un-neutered variant.

The guys an attention seeking idiots, who I used to think was a good guy with intelligence. Now when i see Mr Morgan talk all ill see is a man looking for a statue to be made in his honor... Mr Morgan go back to funding poor kids in Africa, please.

reply to post by caladonea


I completely understand your point of view. It is more rational and enlightened than mine. I still very much stand behind what I said. However, thank you for being such a kind person. You are much needed in this world.