The Bible identifies the whore of Babylon as Jerusalem.

page: 3
6
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join

posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 06:11 AM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


To understand the time period that we are talking about, the whore of Babylon riding the beast from the sea for 1260 prophetic days before symbolically dying and being revived again to pursue her end game agenda of making the world submit their worship and allegiance, in mind or action, to the image of the beast we need to use the book of Daniel to show us when this power would arise.


Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and swore by him that liveth forever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things


In Daniel 7, as Gabriel interprets the dream for Daniel, we see this 'time, times and the dividing of time' reference made when talking about this 'little horn' that is introduced to us in Daniel 7:8. Daniel 12:7 uses this same time period and says that it is a man which was upon the waters of the river (drawing a link to beast from the sea). How we can draw the conclusion that the whore of Babylon is related to this little horn and man on the waters is the following verse.


Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


some additional explanations of 1260 prophetic days, 42 months and time times and a half

Now that we have established the link we can analyse Daniel chapter 2, 7 and 8.

Nebuchadnezzar's dream of a statue/image of with:
- head of gold
- chest and arms of silver
- belly and thighs of bronze
- legs of iron
- feet partly of iron and partly of clay

In Daniel 2:38 Daniel tells the Babylonian king that he is represented as the head of gold. He then proceeds to tell of kingdoms that would arise after successively after Babylon that will rule over the earth.

The historical interpretation of this is:

Historicist interpretation

The following view has traditionally been more prevalent among Christian scholars:
Head of gold - Babylon
Breast and arms of silver- Medo-Persia
Belly and thighs of brass- Hellenistic Greece
Legs of iron - Rome
Feet partly of iron and partly of molded clay - The divided Roman Empire
wiki


In Daniel 7 now it talks about 4 beasts:
- a lion with two wings (Dan. 7:4)
- a bear raised up on one side with 3 ribs between its mouth (Dan. 7:5)
- leopard with 4 wings and 4 heads (Dan. 7:6)
- a dreadful beast with iron teeth, trampling to pieces everything (Dan. 7:7)
. We know that these 4 beasts can be linked to the kingdoms that would arise from Daniel 2's image because of this verse.


Daniel 7:23 So he said: 'The fourth animal will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, different from all the kingdoms. It will devour the entire earth, trampling it down and crushing it.


We also note the iron legs links with the iron teeth.

And we know it is referring to the kingdom of Rome designated as the legs of iron because of the matching descriptions:


Daniel 2:40 Then there will be a fourth kingdom, as strong as iron. Just as all things are broken to pieces and shattered by iron, so it will shatter and crush everything.


In Daniel 8 we read about 'a Ram with 2 horns, one higher than the other and the higher one came up last' (Dan. 8:3). Angel Gabriel interprets this for Daniel and says:

Daniel 8:20 As for the ram that you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of Media and Persia.


The male goat that is next described, which had a notable horn between the eyes (Alexander the Great, verse.5). In verse 8 we read the large horn was broken (the death of Alexander) and in its place 4 notable horns came up (the 4 generals that I have mentioned in a previous post). We confirm this analysis with Gabriel's interpretation:

Daniel 8:21 The hairy male goat is the kingdom of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is its first king.


Now I could outline all the symbolic imagery for you if you desire but I would like to move on and begin talking about the 10 horns that came out of the 4th beast of Daniel 7 corresponding to the kingdom of Rome so we can start talking about the little horn that rose from amongst them and is the same as the beast the whore of Babylon rides.

I will address some of your concerns made in your most recent reply to me when the timing angle has been properly established. Can you see though from this post the link made between the powers mentioned in specific parts of Daniel and Revelation, specifically in this instance the length of period of its initial rule.
edit on 5-2-2013 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 06:19 AM
link   
reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 



but I would like to move on and begin talking about the 10 horns that came out of the 4th beast of Daniel 7 corresponding to the kingdom of Rome


I do appreciate the time and effort you put into your threads and post.
However, none of what you are saying addresses what I mentioned in my reply to you, where I addressed certain things you said. Now, you are just going on about your own interpretations of Daniel, which is not what this thread is about. I am being extremely specific about the subject matter of this thread... i.e - the reasons why Jerusalem is the whore.

You should actually start a thread explaining your understanding of Daniel.
edit on 5-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 06:50 AM
link   
logical7


i think you both took the meaning the wrong way. ... dying in Jerusalem is not a requirement of proving prophethood.


And which of us said that it was? The misleadingly mined quote was offered by Scorpie. FF and I both wrote to question what Scorpie wrote. It's also nice to see you're looking at the preceding verses. That's just what I suggested should be done here.

BTW, during Jesus' ministry, Jerusalem was under direct Roman rule. If prophets were being killed there, then it would be Pontius Pilate doing it, not any Herod, who reigned elsewhere. By an amazing coincidence, Pontius Pilate's soldiers killed Jesus, according to the Christian version.

Jesus' death, then, does not distinguish between "Rome" and "Jerusalem" as factors for early Christian writers. Both cities figure prominently in the Christian Passion narrative, one as place where it happened and the other as the power that made it happen there.

Scorpie


Use the one I linked you to if you want to continue discussing Paul.


No, I will consider all of the canon that discusses personal visions of Jesus.

You, not me, introduced the idea that the New Testament falsely reports some visions, while another part which talks about visions you like better is true. You will, therefore, have to tolerate your proposal being examined, as a whole, and shown to be incoherent cherry-picking, as it is.


Paul laments that he was rejected by all of (biblical) Asia.


Then we agree that, contrary to your earlier claim, there is nothing in Revelation that says this. Thank you for your correction of your misstatement.


Later in revelations, we read that Ephesus, located in Asia... is being commended for testing and rejecting false prophets.


Just as we read in Paul's epistles that the church in his time has the same problems. 1 Thessalonians 5: 21, "Test all things..." and just as we read in Matthew 7: 16 that in his time, Jesus is already offering advice about discernment of false prophecy.

This is a nice illustration of why the New Testament needs to be read as a coherent whole, BTW. The problem in Ephesus in John's time is typical of all early Christianity, not anything connected with Paul specifically.

On a recurring note, Revelation is singular.


You are forgetting that it was a Jewish woman who poisoned Mohammad...


Actually I am familiar with that story. But, as we now agree that Jesus' remark doesn't make any unique association between Jerusalem and the death of prophets, where Mohammed died is moot.


Then those Christians seem to disagree with the premise that the author was not divinely inspired with visions of the distant future.


Those are two spearate issues, whether the work is divinely inspired, and whether what was inspired was a vision of the future, rather than a confident understanding of what should be done in the present. As you know, there is the same kind of discussion surrounding Daniel, which controversy engages both Christians and Jews.

And, although you keep trying to rule it out of bounds, it is the same controversy which you have with the epistles of Paul. Revelation presents no isolated problem in exegesis, upon which comparison with other books in the canon with prophetic and visionary form can shed no light. The breadth of God's purposes and the many uses of inspired visions are crucial to the correct understanding of Revelation, as well as of Paul, Acts, Daniel, and other visionary material in the canon as well.



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 07:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Similarly, Mohammad also was poisoned by a Jewish woman... the effects of which took a toll on his health, leading to his death. So once again, like Jesus said, the Jews are proven to be killers of prophets.

Well ... MAYBE he was poisoned by a Jewish woman. It's very unclear how Muhammad died. There are lots of death myths surrounding him. The History Channel did a great job going over the life of Muhammad and all the legends and lore and myths surrounding his death. But no one knows for sure how he died.

Some like to pin it on a jew .. a woman of course.
Considering that he had just slaughtered the Jews in Khaibar, it could be.
Some like to claim that he predicted where and when he was to die.
Some like to claim that angels were present.
Some say it was a poison that took 4 years to kill him. (silly!)

It easily could have been natural causes .. a bleeding ulcer ... a venereal disease (muhammad was busy in that area!) ... TB ... lots of things. But they automatically went with 'poison' to create political capital against the Jews. It COULD have been a Jewish woman .. or it could have been natural causes.

I say dig up the rotted corpse and have it tested to find out.

As for killers of prophets ... the Jews killed prophets .. so did the Muslims .. so did the Christians. All three have blood on their hands and in their soil.



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 07:57 AM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Skorpion, the link is made of the time period of the rulership of this oppressive power of Revelation with prophetic descriptions in Daniel. We know that there must be some cross over of the 2 prophecy books mentioned because Daniel's prophecies about times and kingdoms extends all the way to the return of the Ancient of Days (i.e return of Jesus, Daniel 2:44, Daniel 7:13). I have made the link of where the cross over between the two books exists. You can either accept it or not but if you want to use the Christian Bible to identifying the whore you need to use all the tools available to you, especially the ones that cross over on the same time period mention (i.e extending all the way to the end of time).

I agree that Jesus declared Jerusalem a killer of prophets. The description in Revelation is not prophets but saints and holy men. There is nothing like the blood-lust shown by the papacy having Christians and Christian leaders killed in all of history (I will show this in future posts).

Daniel maybe a separate prophetic document but it the descriptions of the Beast of the sea in Revelation 13 uses the same symbols as the 4 beasts of Daniel 7 and Daniel 7 and 2 cover up to the same time period as Revelation 13, all the way up to the return of Jesus.


Scarlet and gold simply represents the opulence of the whore.


This is what 'arrayed in purple and scarlet' actually looks like







Now some adorned with gold and precious stones






purple, scalet, gold and precious stones oh my!


Golden Cup





posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 08:24 AM
link   
reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 

Yep .. it was just a matter of time before you did that. Dude ... your Seventh Day Adventist agenda is clouding your judgment. The Vatican isn't on 7 hills. It simply is not. Your agenda driven theory is a square peg trying to be fit in a round hole. It doesn't work.

Rome? Yes. 7 Hills and the blood of innocents shed.
Jerusalem? Yes. 7 Hills and the blood of innocents shed.
Tehran? Yes. 7 Hills and the blood of innocents shed.
Yonkers, NYC? Yes. 7 Hills ...
Mecca? Sorta (surrounded by 7 hills, but not on them)

The Catholic Church and/or The Vatican? No. Not on 7 hills.



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 08:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic

Scarlet and gold simply represents the opulence of the whore.

This is what 'arrayed in purple and scarlet' actually looks like

No. Scarlet and gold and purple are representing the opulence of the whore.
It can also represent royalty. Such as all the pictures of Jesus around the world
showing him as dressed in purple.

But in this case, it is not royalty but is instead representative of the opulence of the whore.

Skorpion is correct.



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 08:32 AM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 



Well ... MAYBE he was poisoned by a Jewish woman. It's very unclear how Muhammad died.


You say "maybe" here.... but its on record that you starred and flagged a certain thread mocking Mohammads death because it was ultimately caused by a Jewish woman.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Im doing so, you established that you are on the side of the same people who killed the prophets.

And to top it off, you even insult Abraham and Moses in your threads and posts.



As for killers of prophets ... the Jews killed prophets .. so did the Muslims .. so did the Christians. All three have blood on their hands and in their soil.

Yet, Jesus only accused the Jews of having the blood of prophets on their hands.



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 09:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
You say "maybe" here.... but its on record that you starred and flagged a certain thread mocking Mohammads death because it was ultimately caused by a Jewish woman.

I starred and flagged the thread that QUESTIONED Mohammads death because ... IT IS IN QUESTION.

Im doing so, you established that you are on the side of the same people who killed the prophets.

Absurd. How you get from me saying that we don't know how Muhammad died, to me thinking that the murder of real prophets is a good thing ... that's bizzare even for you. (btw .. Muhammad wasn't a prophet ... just FYI) Your statement is just faux-indignation and twisted rhetoric.

And to top it off, you even insult Abraham and Moses in your threads and posts.

I state the truth.

Abraham was off his rocker. He heard 'voices' telling him to murder his kid. And he planned it out and attempted to do so. That's not 'insulting' him. That's stating the truth .. he was insane.

Moses wasn't a nice guy. He mass murdered people and then told his soldiers that they could keep young virgin girls as sex toys. That's not 'insulting' him. That's stating the truth .. he wasn't a nice guy.

And neither of those have anything to do with the fact that NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE how Muhammad died. It could have been a Jewish person poisoning him in retaliation for his butchering of the Jews in Khaibar . It could have been a bleeding ulcer in the stomach. It could have been TB. It could have been an STD. It could have been ANYTHING. Like I said, dig up the rotting corpse and have it tested in multiple labs that can be trusted. Then we'd know for sure.


Yet, Jesus only accused the Jews of having the blood of prophets on their hands.

Because there were not any Christians or Muslims around then.
Comeon .. that's a major DUH.

Learn to read facts without emotional attachment to religious indoctrination.
You'll get further and learn TRUTH ... which can be very free-ing.


edit on 2/5/2013 by FlyersFan because: fixed quote



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 09:17 AM
link   
reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 



This is what 'arrayed in purple and scarlet actually looks like

....



If you are going to be so hung up on colors....then you need to deal with the colors of Jewish priesthood as defined by the Bible.

I will just quote from the Bible and reveal to you the colors that represent Jewish priesthood.


Have them use gold, and blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and fine linen.
“Make the ephod of gold, and of blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and of finely twisted linen—the work of skilled hands. It is to have two shoulder pieces attached to two of its corners, so it can be fastened. Its skillfully woven waistband is to be like it—of one piece with the ephod and made with gold, and with blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and with finely twisted linen.
-Exodus 28:5-8

“Fashion a breastpiece for making decisions—the work of skilled hands. Make it like the ephod: of gold, and of blue, purple
-Exodus 28:15

Make pomegranates of blue, purple and scarlet yarn around the hem of the robe, with gold bells between them
-Exodus 28:33


www.biblegateway.com...

Gold = mentioned 16 times
Purple = mentioned 5 times
Scarlet = mentioned 5 times

So what now, Jesuitgarlic?

The Roman Catholic church may be using the colors purple and scarlet.... but they weren't exactly accused of being prophet killers... neither are they located on 7 hills.

However, Jerusalem / the Jews not only are biblically associated with scarlet, purple and gold.... but also have been accused of being prophet killers and happens to be located on 7 hills.





edit on 5-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 09:24 AM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 



Because there were not any Christians or Muslims around then.
Comeon .. that's a major DUH.


Were there Christians when Paul was around?

Because he too accused Jews of being prophet killers.

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
-1Thesalonians 2:14-15


I have no idea whats going on, but everyone from Jeremiah to Jesus to Paul to the author of Revelations....called them prophet killers.

edit on 5-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 09:27 AM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Were there Christians when Paul was around?

Sure. Just getting started. They were the hunted .. not the hunters (yet).


everyone from Jeremiah to Jesus to Paul to the author of Revelations....called them prophet killers.

Because they were the major religion of the time in that area. There were no muslims. The Christians at that time were the ones being killed off and they hadn't started their own killing spree yet.



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 09:30 AM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

Oh and btw ... Muhammad made himself a legitimate military target. He orchestrated the mass murder of many people and he arranged for the individual murders of others. He was in charge and took lands and goods and properties from innocent people. He made himself a military leader and therefore, those he fought against, would have been justified in trying to kill him. IF a Jewish person killed Muhammad .. they were engaged in self defense by killing a military leader who was butchering them .. they weren't killing a 'prophet'.



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 09:46 AM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 




Because they were the major religion of the time in that area. There were no muslims. The Christians at that time were the ones being killed off and they hadn't started their own killing spree yet.


How many Biblical prophets did Muslims kill off?
Zero.

How many prophets of Islam were caused to die by Jews?


edit on 5-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 10:56 AM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 



No. Scarlet and gold and purple are representing the opulence of the whore. It can also represent royalty.


I don't see how scarlet (red) is referencing opulence. I see that scarlet is referencing in the symbolic form blood, oppression and sin.

If it was meant to be literal descriptor FF then how should the passage in question be written?


4 And [2532] the woman [1135] was arrayed [4016] [5772] in purple [4209] and [2532] scarlet colour [2847], and [2532] decked [5558] [5772] with gold [5557] and [2532] precious [5093] stones [3037] and [2532] pearls [3135], having [2192] [5723] a golden [5552] cup [4221] in [1722] her [0848] hand [5495] full of [1073] [5723] abominations [0946] and [2532] filthiness [0168] of her [0848] fornication [4202]:
source



4016. περιβάλλω peribállō per-ee-bal'-lo from 4012 and 906; to throw all around, i.e. invest (with a palisade or with clothing):--array, cast about, clothe(-d me), put on.

Strong, James (2011-05-07). Strong's Greek Dictionary of the Bible (with beautiful Greek, transliteration, and superior navigation) (Strong's Dictionary) (Kindle Locations 6556-6558). Miklal Software Solutions, Inc.. Kindle Edition.


We can see this word could be translated as arrayed, clothed, or put on


4209. πορφύρα porphýra por-foo'-rah of Latin origin; the "purple" mussel, i.e. (by implication) the red-blue color itself, and finally a garment dyed with it:--purple. 4210. πορφυροῦς porphyroûs por-foo-rooce' from 4209; purpureal, i.e. bluish red:--purple.

Strong, James (2011-05-07). Strong's Greek Dictionary of the Bible (with beautiful Greek, transliteration, and superior navigation) (Strong's Dictionary) (Kindle Locations 6900-6902). Miklal Software Solutions, Inc.. Kindle Edition.


We see the word for purple to be #G4209 the red-blue colour itself or a garment dyed with purple
If you FF (and skorpion) were to be correct that the purple was symbolic of opulence and royalty I think the better word to use was #G4210 simply meaning purple (bluish red)

For scarlet,

2847. κόκκινος kókkinos kok'-kee-nos from 2848 (from the kernel-shape of the insect); crimson-colored:--scarlet (colour, coloured).

Strong, James (2011-05-07). Strong's Greek Dictionary of the Bible (with beautiful Greek, transliteration, and superior navigation) (Strong's Dictionary) (Kindle Locations 4777-4779). Miklal Software Solutions, Inc.. Kindle Edition.


Once again we see the word definition suggesting something is literally of that colour
-------------------------------

The Vatican isn't on 7 hills. It simply is not. Your agenda driven theory is a square peg trying to be fit in a round hole. It doesn't work.



Rev. 17:9 And here [5602] [is] the mind [3563] which [3588] hath [2192] [5723] wisdom [4678]. The seven [2033] heads [2776] are [1526] [5748] seven [2033] mountains [3735], on [1909] which [0846] the woman [1135] sitteth [2521] [5736] [3699] source



2521. κάθημαι káthēmai kath'-ay-mahee from 2596; and ἧμαι hēmai (to sit; akin to the base of 1476); to sit down; figuratively, to remain, reside:--dwell, sit (by, down).

Strong, James (2011-05-07). Strong's Greek Dictionary of the Bible (with beautiful Greek, transliteration, and superior navigation) (Strong's Dictionary) (Kindle Locations 4240-4243). Miklal Software Solutions, Inc.. Kindle Edition.


You suggest it means 'sits on', unfortunately for your agenda the words meaning includes: remains by, resides by


3699. ὅπου hópou hop'-oo from 3739 and 4225; what(-ever) where, i.e. at whichever spot:--in what place, where(-as, -soever), whither (+ soever).

Strong, James (2011-05-07). Strong's Greek Dictionary of the Bible (with beautiful Greek, transliteration, and superior navigation) (Strong's Dictionary) (Kindle Locations 5978-5979). Miklal Software Solutions, Inc.. Kindle Edition.




So put that together we have a woman (which represents a church) in a spot/place residing by 7 moutains/hills

Does the Vatican (Roman Church) reside by a place where there is 7 hills. YES


Your suggestions against what I have to say FF imply that you either haven't studied this clearly (most likely the case) or you are just here to make sure the Vatican you identify with isn't fingered at any cost



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 11:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
How many Biblical prophets did Muslims kill off? Zero.

There are no 'biblical prophets' after Jesus, therefore there were no biblical prophets when Islam was invented for the jews (or Christians) to kill. However, the Muslims managed to kill off millions upon millions of innocent people.

How many prophets of Islam were caused to die by Jews?

There are no real prophets in Islam.

Like I said .. what you call 'the prophets of Islam' (like Muhammad) were actually military targets by their own making. They went around conquering and killing and raping and stealing. The directed soldiers to do these things. So called 'holy men', religious leaders, backed up the mass murders with religious rhetoric. Therefore, they all were legitimate military targets .. not innocent 'prophets of god'.



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 11:07 AM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



So what now, Jesuitgarlic?


I will say good find Skorpion! That information helps your case and it is something I had not thought about before. The colour blue stuffs up the clear link but good info nonetheless. Go the Jewish priests still parade around in such clothing or has it changed.

You have to admit though skorpion, the literal translation that I suggest is being referenced here in my reply to FF is easily demonstrated to be the Vatican as well. Is there anything about a golden cup in those writings in Exodus?

Please read my last post to FF, I show the verse is not referring to a city/church ON 7 hills by that the verse says that it RESIDES BY 7 hills. Meaning the Vatican is not discounted by this factor



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 11:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
I don't see how scarlet (red) is referencing opulence. I see that scarlet is referencing in the symbolic form blood, oppression and sin.

Red CAN be blood. The red that the cardinals wear are to represent the blood that they are willing to shed in order to protect, what they call, the true faith. That's the purpose of their red robes.

You suggest it means 'sits on', unfortunately for your agenda the words meaning includes: remains by, resides by

I don't have an agenda. (Unlike YOU who admits to an anti-catholic Seventh Day Adventist agenda) And the wording says 'sits ON' .. not 'sits BY'. Nice try though ...

So put that together we have a woman (which represents a church) in a spot/place residing by 7 moutains/hills

YOU say it represents a church. That is NOT what a vast majority of Christians have concluded the meaning is. Cities, in that time period, are spoken of as being female. And it is NOT 'residing by' .. it is 'residing ON'. It's just that simple.

you are just here to make sure the Vatican you identify with isn't fingered at any cost

I don't 'identify with the Vatican'. If you bothered to check my posting history, you'd see that very clearly. I'm just stating facts. Facts that don't match your Seventh Day Adventist interpretation. It's just that simple.


From the Catholic Bible 101 - Backs up Skorpions Theory on Jerusalem being 'The Whore'


the Whore of Babylon is a “great city that has dominion over the Kings of the earth”. Now we all have to ask ourselves if the Vatican has any dominion over any Kings of the earth today. Well there aren’t that many Kings around anymore, for one thing, and even if you transpose the word “president” for “king”, it’s laughable to say that the Vatican has dominion over any president or ruler of a country today, with all of the legalized abortion, contraception, divorce and remarriage, etc., that is going on in most countries today. And in countries that do have Kings, like Saudi Arabia, certainly the Vatican has zero dominion over Muslim countries.



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 12:18 PM
link   
Rome has learned many things from her mother. The colors of clothes and wearing of gold are one of many.



posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 03:03 PM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 



And the wording says 'sits ON' .. not 'sits BY'. Nice try though ...

FF I didn't realise you were hard of seeing


2521. κάθημαι káthēmai kath'-ay-mahee from 2596; and ἧμαι hēmai (to sit; akin to the base of 1476); to sit down; figuratively, to remain, reside:--dwell, sit (by, down).


I am translating the the english word they have used 'sitteth'

using the original greek meaning the verse should be translated

Rev 13:9 "...The seven heads are seven mountains/hills, on which the woman 'resides by'

There is no 'ON' in the english dictionary definition of the original Greek...sorry that is willful blindness

------------------------------------

YOU say it represents a church. That is NOT what a vast majority of Christians have concluded the meaning is.


You are correct about one thing. I say it represent a church as I have not YET shown the symbolism link and how it is implied by other factors.


Micah 4:10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.


We see this 'woman', God's anointed 'daughter of Zion' is not contained to a city (fixed location) as an order is given for her to 'go forth out of the city'...in this case of symbolism this 'daughter' associated with being of God resembles a group of faithful people.


Isaiah 62:11, 12 Behold, the LORD has proclaimed unto the ends of the earth, Say you to the daughter of Zion, Behold, your salvation comes; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and you shall be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.


Daughter of Zion = the holy people, the redeemed of the LORD or a city not forsaken


Zephaniah 3:12-15 But I will leave within you the meek and humble, who trust in the name of the LORD. 13 The remnant of Israel will do no wrong; they will speak no lies, nor will deceit be found in their mouths. They will eat and lie down and no one will make them afraid."

14 Sing, O Daughter of Zion; shout aloud, O Israel! Be glad and rejoice with all your heart, O Daughter of Jerusalem! 15 The LORD has taken away your punishment, he has turned back your enemy. The LORD, the King of Israel, is with you; never again will you fear any harm


Talking about this anointed woman of God again, this 'Daughter of Zion/Jerusalem', Zephaniah likens this to a faithful remnant group of people that are saved in their LORD.

The references I have presented suggest a faithful remnant group of people with some possibility of a non-specific city association as well.

In Revelation 12 we read about a designated woman of God. We see in verses 4 and 5 that this woman bears a Child we would recognize to be Jesus. We see her have to flee into the wilderness (go into hiding or under official State oppression) for this 1260 prophetic day period (v.6). In verse 13, the next mention of the woman, we see that she is being persecuted by the dragon now but when she flees to the wilderness for 'time, times and a half' (v.14) that she is taken care of. The offspring of the woman are described as 'who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus' (v.17).

So what do we learn about the faithful women of Revelation, the counterpoint to the whore of Babylon?
Jesus is born from in among His faithful people (Mary and Joseph). The city he was born in, Bethlehem, is of no significance to the woman's attributes in this instance. Future faithful people are described as keeping the commandments and having the testimony of Jesus (where the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy Rev. 19:10)

I will put it to you FF that saying prophetic books like Revelation are HOOYEE, irrelevant or not a real vision is not a good position to be taking if you want to be counted among God's faithful remnant. Same thing goes for not respecting God's commandments, ALL of them (even the one erased on idols/icons/images/statues).

So the counterpart woman of Revelation 17, the one that is unfaithful would be described or best associated with a group of people that have doctrines (wine) not inline with God's teachings and Law, possibly coming from a non-descript city. Is that a reasonably fair assessment?

To me that sounds like a Christian church denomination, and seeing that it is called a 'Mother of Harlots' we should look to find a church that consider themselves a mother not a daughter, and one that has spurned many false daughter denominations as well.
edit on 5-2-2013 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)





top topics
 
6
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join