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New European Constitution and article commenting on it.

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posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 08:30 AM
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www.guardian.co.uk...


some papagrphas by Robin Cook in The Guardian Friday October 29, 2004

Yet how many voices will be heard in Britain hailing today's event as a triumph? Any brave soul murmuring that there may be something positive to be said for a Europe of peace and democracy will be drowned out by the blast of amplified heckling from the Daily Mail, the Murdoch press, and the post-Hollinger Telegraph. The Mail has dubbed the European constitution as the greatest threat to confront us for a thousand years. It takes a high degree of perversity to regard a charter of human rights as a greater threat to our country than the Norman Conquest, the Spanish Armada or the London Blitz.


look at the right squirming...


and there is more for them to worry about.

Its charter of fundamental rights embraces economic and social rights, such as limitations on working time, the right to consultation at work and the right to social security out of work. Indeed, one of the most bitter complaints of the right about the constitution is that it explicitly enshrines the right to strike




posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 08:47 AM
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I agree all of Europe should be proud of this day and celebrate. This is an example to the world.

Although you still have you're foolish brits who think they aren't european even though they are intertwined with millenia of its history and was invaded by the romans, the saxons and the normans!
this is what happens when centuries of nationalist BS gets drummed into the mindset of the public, its hard to get out. I hope all EU nations ratify the constitution.

thanks,
drfunk



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 08:50 AM
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I have not read one word of this European Constitution. Ill take the time to read it if its available online. I shudder to think of what those relativistic humanists in Euro-land have come up with!

Praise God that we in America have a Constitution that was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 08:52 AM
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Yep so do i.

A united states of europe might just be the lesson we have to learn from across the atlantic.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by Machine
Praise God that we in America have a Constitution that was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.


Please take your fundamentalist ideology with you.... and don't leave it within reach of children...



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 09:03 AM
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I take it with me wherever I go.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by Corinthas
Its charter of fundamental rights embraces economic and social rights, such as limitations on working time, the right to consultation at work and the right to social security out of work. Indeed, one of the most bitter complaints of the right about the constitution is that it explicitly enshrines the right to strike


- Quite right.

But then the last thing the 'right' in the UK want is to tell the truth about how Europe expands the rights of the people. Setting the 'serfs' free is the last thing these people believe in. How the hell do you get people to do as their told if they're 'free'?

Naturally this is backed up power-freak perverted neo-con US types who do not want a self confident unified Europe standing in the way of their ambitions.

Afterall a fully united, modern, technically litterate, well resourced and wealthy Europe of 470millions + (with the easy potential to rise to approx 550millions) is not going to be any kind of push-over for 270million-strong America which refuses genuine honest cooperation and competition but prefers confrontation and aggressive hostility.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 09:38 AM
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when eastern europe is on par or near par as the western europe coupled with growing unity in the EU the US will learn it's place as a nation of this earth and not as its self-elected leader. China's growing economic, political and military strength will also aid this greatly.

I hope a tri-polar world brings peace and the end of autocratic rule on the international scene by the United States

thanks,
drfunk

[edit on 29-10-2004 by drfunk]



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 09:46 AM
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Yes, when Turkey hooks up with EU we will start to bridge the gap between the Muslim world and the western world...along with better conditions for the eastern population in Europe EU will be a real vitamin injection in the sick global society.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 09:48 AM
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could you imagine a day when a EU president is considered the leader of the free world
what a glorious day it would be.

"The President will "chair (the Council) and drive its work forward and ensure, at his level, the external representation of the Union."

"This is a new post. At the moment, the Council presidency rotates through the member states every six months, so continuity is lost. The new President will therefore be a permanent figure with much greater influence and symbolism. But since he or she will be subject to the Council, the powers of the post are limited."

but sadly the current framework for the president is to be elected by the EU council and has a 2.5 year term(renewable once) which limits his importance(as he will be answerable to the EU council)but is much better than the current EU presidential framework.

On a good note though the EU foreign minister will be the spokesman for all europe on agreed common foreign policy.

thanks,
drfunk



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 10:04 AM
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If you want to read the truth about the new European Constitution go to this link. The EU Constitution is the exact opposite of the U.S. Constitution.

www.nationalreview.com...

My favorite part of the EU Constitution reads as follows:

Any of these rights may be limited in the interest of meeting "objectives of general interest recognized by the Union."

Translation:

The EU give-ith and the EU take-ith away! The EU rights are no rights at all, they are privileges subject to the whim of the ruling elite.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 10:16 AM
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Cherry pick all you like Machine but I'll stick with Europe's actual track record.

Europe's track record for decades is that the union in Europe has extended and expanded personal human rights and freedoms in a genuinely free and progressive manner unmatched in our - or your, or anyone else's - history.

(and by the way, what ruling elite? What, exactly, are you talking about?

The ruling power structures within the EU administration is made up - at all levels - of either nominees of the national democratic elected governments, the directly elected members from the countries comprising the EU to the Euro Parliament or the ministers and Prime Ministers/Presidents from the democratically elected national governments themselves.

The EU has only ever acted in a manner of coperative agreement. FACT.

It's not perfect but it is immeasurably better than anything that went before it.)



[edit on 29-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 10:44 AM
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Sminkeypinkey said,
Europe's track record for decades is that the union in Europe has extended and expanded personal human rights and freedoms in a genuinely free and progressive manner unmatched in our - or your, or anyone else's - history.


Have you so quickly forgotten about the two world wars we had not too long ago? Was Hitler spreading human rights?

You can have your EU Constitution and all the, privileges it grants you. Ill take my 200-year-old U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, which reads:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights

Rights>privileges



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by Machine

Have you so quickly forgotten about the two world wars we had not too long ago? Was Hitler spreading human rights?



Thankfully we have moved on from this, can't live in the past.

I guess you haven't been able to move on yet.

Good news for Europe!



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 11:13 AM
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The EU give-ith and the EU take-ith away! The EU rights are no rights at all, they are privileges subject to the whim of the ruling elite.

Does Patriot act ring a bell?



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by Machine
Have you so quickly forgotten about the two world wars we had not too long ago? Was Hitler spreading human rights?


- This is absurd.

In what possible way has WW1 or 2 or Hitler got anything to do with Europe and today's European constitution?

(other than it being the bit of dirt where they happened)?


You can have your EU Constitution and all the, privileges it grants you. Ill take my 200-year-old U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, which reads:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights

Rights>privileges


- Well good for you.

As mentioned I'd also remind you of 'the Patriot act' and suggest a little pondering on the fundamental truth that all 'rights', ultimately, are conditional on the state being a sane and reasonable one prepared to back them.



[edit on 29-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by Machine
Any of these rights may be limited in the interest of meeting "objectives of general interest recognized by the Union."

Translation:

The EU give-ith and the EU take-ith away! The EU rights are no rights at all, they are privileges subject to the whim of the ruling elite.



Which is why I don't understand how people can TRUST government of any kind, obviously their interests are far more important then that of the people.
See there is no WE THE PEOPLE in the european constitution, it's WE THE UNION can give you "right/privelages"... But then we can also easily take them away...


ps: why are you guys getting so defensive?? Are you defending this constitution because you love the government and are defending it?
Or is it something else?

[edit on 29-10-2004 by TrueLies]



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies
Which is why I don't understand how people can TRUST government of any kind,


- Well if you choose not to trust your government or not is your affair. Ours has yet to attempt to pass the kind of restrictive and IMO oppressive laws you guys seem to feel ok about....they have introduced some 'tighter' and IMO unnecessary law but nothing like the Patriot act.


obviously their interests are far more important then that of the people.


- I'm sorry, I don't see how this follows at all.


See there is no WE THE PEOPLE in the european constitution, it's WE THE UNION


- Of course it's 'we the union'.

That's because it is a union that has not (despite the anti-EU propaganda) transcended the national governments.


can give you "right/privelages"... But then we can also easily take them away...


- The EU actually requires (following unanimous agreement) that all the member nations uphold these standards....

....the 'EU can take away' angle is utterly unlikely (in the absolute extreme) to ever happen except in the direst most unforeseen emergency......same as any government might have such a contingency....but I suppose after 9/11 someone thought it reasonable to include.

Personally I don't go for all this fear stuff myself but I do not think this is an accurate take on what is intended or going on in Europe right now at all.


ps: why are you guys getting so defensive?? Are you defending this constitution because you love the government and are defending it?
Or is it something else?


- No, not at all. I wouldn't say 'defensive'; I'd say more like disappointed at the general level of ignorance and ill informed rubbish about the EU and Europe being thrown about the place as if it were fact.

FFS, can we have a Europe story without mention of Hitler and his gang, just once, please?

[edit on 29-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 04:08 PM
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I'm sorry, I don't mean to be ignorant, which is why I ask questions so that I can "learn" something.

We the union? Who made that up? was it the governments? just curious...

And why did European countries decide to brand themselves together?

Is this going to end up being just one country? Are all the countries using the same currency?

ps: I heard talk of chirac pissing people off in his cabinet over some issue that had to do with the forming of the EU... Do you know what that was?



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by Machine
I have not read one word of this European Constitution. I’ll take the time to read it if it’s available online.


Obviously, its available online, all important EU documents are available online.

You just have to choose your language.

Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe

[edit on 29/10/2004 by ArMaP]



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