How to stop facism without providing the next generation with exactly the same emotional tools to rebuild it???
For the most part, society has followed certain patterns of Authority, repression, resistance, revolution, chaos and rebuilding. AS we near the end of the world (2012) according to the wise MAyans, can we look at the upcoming world conflict as another spoke in the circle of human conditioning or do we have another choice of action, or non-action? How would you prepare yourself?
Does the MAtrix REALLY have you....




[Edited on 8-5-2003 by Voice_of Doom]

When dealing with humanity, you must remeber the collective mentality of humans is similar to herd animals. they dont care what, as long as someone is in charge. Anarchy, like communism, are utopian pipe dreams that while nice on paper, do not work in the real world of humans, since they run counter to human nature. Communism represses human instincts of ambition and greed, anarchy removes the desire for humans to be led and not have to think too deeply for themselves.

I would say that all emotional states exist within humans from the begining. Each culture/religeon/government encourages certain characteristics and discourages others. The funny thing is that anywhere I've gone, I have only seen individuals. Sometimes they dress and think alike but as soon as I made eye-contact........
I believe that there is limitless potential to be tapped from a free, thinking society. To watch people struggle through their, "mind-forged manacles" is really hard for me. Perhaps that is one of my lesson's to be learned this time.
Maybe the world is exactly where it needs to be, maybe whats coming is the cleansing needed. There were many people who believed that the horrors of the second world war needed to be kept alive and shown so that humanity would never sink to such base levels of aggression again. I think that was one of the nobler ideas behind creating the state of Isreal...and now look what nobility has spawned.
I think that the human element behind the original leaders of communism was that a social conscience could be taught and that instatutionalizing a moral and economic code would accerate the the evolution of man to a higher plane. Has communism ever really gotten a fair shake or was it "naive" as you say by closing its eyes to the conditions of greed, in man???
I have heard that the universe is moving to a greater place of negentropy. This is the expansion phase that its been in for quite some time. Wouldn't it stand to reason that our world and the forces that affect our life energy would beholden us to this ever increasing chaos also?
Does this give anarchy a scientific rationale??
Can people be conditioned, from birth, not to obey authority. Would that have a desirable affect? Perhaps thats the next step in evolution and since, "society has always been sustained by a minority" do those of us who have scaled the walls, or left the cave,
have an obligation to come back and lead others on.
Like I said in the orignal post, would that just create a reactionary facism armed with better tools than they have now???
and why the f*ck is the Buddha always smiling???

Apologies above to blake, spinoza and all those offended by the word f*ck.....


[Edited on 8-5-2003 by Voice_of Doom]

A part of herd animal mentality is the desire to BE that one leader. Everyone wants control in their own lives and greed makes us want to control others as well. The more people you control, the safer and more secure you feel.
Communism and Anarchy both look good on paper. As ideals, they're practically identical -- Communism simply being a sharing and peace which is regulated . Of course this doesn't work, because there are people regulating and people not regulating and this creates inequality which goes against the ideal.
True Anarchy has never been tried for a sustained length of time because it has always come about suddenly. Anarchy needs to be worked towards. It is an ideal, after all.

It is we who need to keep improving ourselves. We need to be worthy of Peace. We need to seek peaceful methods to our problems and ease out from under the protective glove of our government.
That means we must be educated, not with history books and sex education, but by ourselves. All people, working together must share information. It is in this way, through Discussion, that we will once again realize that No One Deserves To Be In Power.

There is a natural sponateaity that is inherent in anarchy. It is really the foundation. CAn this be structured and taught on a large scale or is the conclusion of anarchy what one can only come to after their "40 days" in the desert alone?.
There were libertarian societies amoung some native american tribes. Its easy to see why they were and continue to be stamped out by our rigid authoritarian rule.
Parts of the Greek and Chinese cultures engaged in similar practices. There are precedents!

You can condition children to believe anything you want.
The Truman Show is the same concept, but it doesn't use it to plant ideals.

Here's a method:
Rule #1 - You either don't let your kids watch TV or You sit beside them and explain which things are Good and which are Bad and why.

Rule #2 - Anything that you label as Bad, is something you are forbidden to do.

Rule #3 - Ask your kids what they think about Everything. People need to practice asserting their opinions.

Rule #4 - Listen to your kids; they may have a better idea than you. It is important to be, as impressionable to good ideas, as they are. You're an adult - you have the ability to tell good from bad.

Rule #5 - Love them no matter who they are.


Hypothesis: Parents are the Primary Factor in Child Develpoment -
as an experiment, you could get a couple to raise a child in an isolated, self-sufficent environment. Instead of telling the child about life as it is, you could create an entire new reality for the child. Teach him colors, but teach him blue for red, yellow for green, and so on. Tell him that cows are spiders, that floors are ceilings and s**t is sacred. The couple will have to play along and constantly reinforce the new labels. Then, when he's a certain age - fifteen maybe - send him out into the real world and see what happens.

I like to think there are more non violent people than there are violent people in the world, but the violent people are in control. I am not even talking about governments. I mean, among The People, there is a violent majority. Leaders come from The People.
If you teach non violence to your children then the majority will switch to non violence and our leaders cultures and societies will switch to non violence.

I think it is possible to instill an ideal on a large scale. But you have to start small. I would think it would take several generations.

This means nothing for those alive, right now.

But if we insist on having children, then we are entitled to provide for them. And the best thing we can provide them, is a chance for a peaceful world.

The alternative is to have no more children, dump all of our money into Life Extension Technology, and fight over the planet until we die.

i like this topic

Originally posted by Voice_of Doom
There is a natural sponateaity that is inherent in anarchy. It is really the foundation

That's because it's the only form of society which actually involves all people in decision making. It doesn't exist if even one person is resisting it, because the one would be repressed.
Every other form of society comes with government of some sort. And the individual is never free unless he's the only one deciding how to spend his time and not deciding for someone else.

Therefore, when that one person finally agrees then society switches suddenly from government to no-government.

[Edited on 8-5-2003 by quango]

Anarchy can never work, because anarchy is a lack of control, and humans need control to feel better and more fucntional. If anarchy is instated, power, abhoring the vaccum, eventually someone will strong arm themselves into power, because all you need is one human with ambition to take over and a couple of men beneath him to follow his plan.
Communism operates on the ideal of equality, another pipe dream. Nature herself does not practice equality. Some animals in nature get larger terroritories, more mates, and better food than others, because that is how nature works. To have communism work, everyone must put aside thier personal ambition and desire to imrpove and get ahead and settle for conformity and uniformity, and everyone having the same share. To have this kind of society, someone above them all must be there to enforce it, and to counter basic human insticts, it requires agressive brute force to do. It might work in small communities of people, like the kibutz in Israel, where everyone is there by choice and desire, but the rest of humanity wont buy it. Those enforcing the communist principles will be above others, thus, negating equality, and because they have to use resources to enforce conformity and equality, will get the lions share themselves.

The masses as a whole are incapable of independant thought. Only true individuals are. To truly be an indepednant thinker requires the courage to question ones own existance deeply, examine the depths of darkness and the heights of glory, and truly ponder ones own place in it. few people have the courage to venture beyond simple life, and like cattle, pondering anything beyond chewing thier cud will cause them distress. Humans have always dubbed throught history, the thinkers and individuals as debiants, demon possed, or crazy. Try talking about deeper philosphies with the jackass at work. they either think, man, youre a wierdo, or they will shut u out "yeah, i dont care". they wan to remain in the realm of safety, of contemplating dinner tonite, whose gonan win the ballgame, can i afford that new tv, ect. They cant handle the realms of higher reasoning and thinking, of self examination beyond, gee, im getting a beer gut, wonder about that new miracle diet pill on tv..........

It is because of the sheepish nature of humanity that there will aloways be those who are more aware of this behavior, and will exploit it for thier own purposes. It is because of this human weakness we shall always have overlords. Only those of us aware of these things can truly see the sick joke in it all...........

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
The masses as a whole are incapable of independant thought. Only true individuals are.

Everyone has the potential to be True Individuals.

It is because of the sheepish nature of humanity that there will aloways be those who are more aware of this behavior, and will exploit it for thier own purposes.

It's because of lack of education. Real Education. Educating our children about the good we as human beings are capable of.

I absolutely agree Quango. I think that anarchy can function economically in a form of true lassei-fair capitalism though. If you remove the barriers between people, namely the idea of privilege which is demonstrated through such means as Landlordism and tariffs, then you should have a smoothly running function of economics. Of course some people will always be shrewder than others and make better deals, but in true anarchy these happenings will be sporadic and random at best. What we have here in America is a case where 'privilege' has created a economic state where Party A will always profit and Party B will always lose when they come to the market to trade. Party A, seeing the bigger picture financially influences the political body that oversees the creation of privilege. Thereby 'justifying' it with laws and maintaining it through armed force. The largest scam has to be that Party A also seeks to and dominates the 'means of communication' in the society as well. This, along with a culture that emphasizes isolation, allows them to interrupt the normal physiological flow of information humans need with carefully crafted propaganda for said Party A.
The whole machination is wonderful, in an evil sort of way, but what has happened in the last 40 years in this country has been the systematic isolation of the majority of the population. This can be seen in the voter turnout records of that same time period. Our currently elected officials due it on 25% voter turnout. While I'm not preaching the ethics of voting, what I'm saying is that there are approx. 180 million people in this country whose politics are unknown to the ruling elite. France saw itself in this situation in the early 1700's.
I believe that this unknown fear by the authority is the real reason for the creation of Homeland Security and the broad definition of 'domestic terrorist' that will be implemented by the Patriot 2 bill. But I'm off the subject....
I do not think that people have a need to be 'ruled over'. I think humans have certain emotional and physical needs, like all mammals, that include protection and nourishment in the early years. I think that authority has always played to this genetic need to establish its legitimacy. However, in a society of affluence where we can feed, cloth and give shelter to everyone in the world, we stand at the abyss for the next evolutionary move. Genetic manipulation for the betterment of society is one philosophical arm of this idea.