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Originally posted by Ghost375
reply to post by jdub297
Wow, telling me I need to do research?
The square footage of forests has be reduced drastically over the past 150 years by human. That's a fact! The things you link don't negate this FACT. Ever heard of the forests of Lebanon? Beautiful trees talked about in the bible destroyed in a brief span of time.
So you completely ignore my facts and instead resort to insulting me and propagating things that don't actually negate my facts.
arbon market prices could tumble 75 percent if credits for re-growing forests are added to markets for industrial emissions, Greenpeace claims.
A report issued during U.N. talks on a climate treaty said that forest carbon credits could also slow the fight against global warming and divert billions of dollars from investments in clean technology. "Forest credits sound attractive but they are a dangerous option," Greenpeace International's political adviser on forests said.
The good news is that deforestation ceases to be a serious problem in most of the countries where economic development has progressed and sound forest practices, backed by political commitment, have been implemented. However, it must be clear that including forests at the core of a strategy for a sustainable future is not an option – it is mandatory.
It is estimated that—at the beginning of European settlement—in 1630 the area of forest land that would become the United States was 423 million hectares or about 46 percent of the total land area. By 1907, the area of forest land had declined to an estimated 307 million hectares or 34 percent of the total land area. Forest area has been relatively stable since 1907. In 1997, 302 million hectares—or 33 percent of the total land area of the United States—was in forest land. Today’s forest land area amounts to about 70 percent of the area that was forested in 1630.
I think the overarching implication by the OP is that *if* the data is true, and forests contribute more to climatic change than humans, then in fact less forests will cause result in less climatic change, ie. human activity (eg. deforestation) will result in less climatic change.
If the theory proves correct, the peer-reviewed international paper ...will overturn two centuries of conventional wisdom ... and will undermine key principles of every model on which climate predictions are based.
...
“Accepting our theory would basically mean the climate models are wrong. It wouldn’t mean that theories about carbon dioxide and greenhouse gasses are wrong. "
Originally posted by AndyMayhew
Anyway IF forests have more importance than anything else regarding climate change, and humans have been embarked on a poilicy of massive deforestation in the past century, isn't that just more proof that humans are responsible for climate change?
Originally posted by StrangeOldBrew
Good god did you even read a word I wrote? I neither said that AGW is true, nor did I say it was false. I said its a meaningless topic to debate and that I really don't give a crap about it.
Can you provide a coherent argument, with sources, that refutes the fact that humans are having a negative impact on BIODIVERSITY and ECOLOGICAL SYSTEMS by way of resource exploitation, environment encroachment, and industrial pollution? Can anyone quote any study by any scientist that would refute this claim?
AGW is not a hoax, it is the consensus of 99% of scientists... anyone telling you there is no consensus is probably also looking to sell you some snake oil.
•“I do not know what you mean by significant. I believe humans are affecting the climate, I am not sure how and to what level.”
•“I don’ know how to distinguish the effect of human activity from other controls, and I don’t know how you define ‘significant’.”
•“I think human activity is a significant component, but I do not know if it is 10%, 25%, 50% or more.“
•“I have no doubt that it is a factor, and part of my answer relates to the vagueness of the word ‘significantly’. Certainly natural variability is significant. I don’t think we are yet able to ease out the fraction of warming that is anthropogenic from the fraction that is natural…”
•“It depends on your definition of ‘significant. Is human activity a factor? Yes.”
•“Personally I have no doubt that human activity is a contributing factor to increased average MGT, but I cannot evaluate unquantified, qualitative statements like ‘major,’ ‘important,’ or ‘significant’ and disapprove of their use in scientific discussions/conclusions.”
•“Significant is a loaded term. Human activity has contributed to the increase in temperature, but how much has this activity impacted the global mean temperature?”
•“Significant’ is a relative term. To me, significant means that most of the changing temperature would be attributable to human activity. I’m not sure that can be demonstrated.”
•“‘Significant’ is a word that is open to multiple interpretations. Significant is the key word. it has made a difference, but I am not sure if it is a significant difference or just adding to a natural change in temperatures.”
•“That the humans are a contributing factor is clear, as to ‘significant’ is debatable.”
•“I believe human activity is likely doing something, but I hesitate to say it is ‘significant’.”
•“The key word is significant. There have been cyclic warm and cold periods since man has been on earth. The last 10 years the mean temperature has been rather flat, and we have a downward spike this winter. I’m not sure of all the factors going on…”
•“The term significant is somewhat ambiguous particularly in comparison to climate changes throughout geologic history.“
•“The use of the word significant makes me unsure. I know that climate fluctuations are normal, and I’m not convinced that humans are making current temperature changes significantly different.”
•“The way that you phrased the question implies that human activity has to be a significant contributor. I think that the data indicates we are contributors but I’m not sure that we understand the background cycles/changes well enough to know how small or how huge our impacts are.“
•“what do you mean by significant? Statistically? A player in the total rise? sure we are! How much? I am not sure.“
•“What is meant by significant? A major contribution, yes, but what is human activity compared with increased solar activity. So far, it is lost in the statistical models.
Originally posted by SouthernForkway26
For instance, during the summer when the corn is high it is literally suffocating in a corn field. When you drive down a county road surrounded by corn fields the humidity is different enough to feel. You can literally feel the humidity radiating from the corn fields. In areas of bean fields it is less humid, and when you get into a town the heat index is much lower. It can be like the difference of being in the sun and the shade.
The "97%" myth was dispelled long ago, largely by the "climatologists" who responded to the "survey."
As Frontline correspondent John Hockenberry noted, there is a consensus amongst 97% of climate scientists that humans are driving global warming. In several of their many post-Frontline damage control efforts (more on these below), climate denialists invoked the most common response to the debunking of the 'no consensus' myth - that the 97% consensus figure comes from a small sample size of only 79 climate science experts in Doran and Zimmerman (2009). However, this is just one among many examples of the scientific consensus.
For example, in the same study, Doran and Zimmerman received responses from 3,146 Earth Scientists; 82% agreed that human activity is a significant contributing factor to global warming. Note that the Earth Scientists contacted in their survey include petroleum geologists, who have a higher rate of consensus rejection due to the conflict of interest associated with their fossil fuel-dependent profession.
Additionally, Oreskes (2004) surveyed 928 peer-reviewed climate science abstracts, finding that 75% either explicitly or implicitly endorsed the consensus view, while finding zero papers rejecting it in her sample. Benny Peiser set out to disprove Oreskes' result and instead ended up confirming it.
Using a dataset of 1,372 climate researchers and their publication and citation data, Anderegg et al. (2010) found a similar result to Doran and Zimmerman, that between 97% to 98% of climate experts support the consensus, and that the average number of publications by the 'skeptics' is around half the number by scientists convinced by the evidence of human-caused global warming.
The Vision Prize also conducted an online survey of scientists in 2012, finding in a sample of 171 participants that approximately 90% believe human activity has had a primary influence on global warming over the past 250 years, with the other 10% describing the human influence as a secondary influence. The consensus was also significantly stronger than the participants expected.
There is also a very long list of scientific organizations endorsing the consensus position, with none opposing it. The Academies of Science from 19 different countries all endorse the consensus. 13 countries have signed a joint statement endorsing the consensus position. A letter from 18 scientific organizations to US Congress endorses the consensus. And the consensus is also endorsed by a Joint statement by the Network of African Science Academies (NASAC).
In short, the scientific consensus on human-caused global warming is an indisputable reality, supported by many different lines of evidence, despite the strategic efforts to deny it.
So where did that famous “consensus” claim that “98% of all scientists believe in global warming” come from? It originated from an endlessly reported 2009 American Geophysical Union (AGU) survey consisting of an intentionally brief two-minute, two question online survey sent to 10,257 earth scientists by two researchers at the University of Illinois. Of the about 3.000 who responded, 82% answered “yes” to the second question, which like the first, most people I know would also have agreed with.
Then of those, only a small subset, just 77 who had been successful in getting more than half of their papers recently accepted by peer-reviewed climate science journals, were considered in their survey statistic. That “98% all scientists” referred to a laughably puny number of 75 of those 77 who answered “yes”.
Originally posted by Kali74
No it wasn't debunked, you've chosen to believe lies over fact,
climate denialists
9-11 Truther, Birther, Conspiracy Theorist, Holocaust denyer, Anti-Semite. Words for people who are guilty of asking questions.
Originally posted by Kali74
9-11 Truther, Birther, Conspiracy Theorist, Holocaust denyer, Anti-Semite. Words for people who are guilty of asking questions.
None of whom really ask any questions, denialists fit nicely in your grouping. People that ask questions are called skeptics. Generally skeptics don't ask questions in light of overwhelming evidence, they tend to rely on science and facts. But let's pretend for one minute that AGW skeptics actually exist, it would be nice if these skeptics weren't paid by the likes of Koch, Exxon et all.
Funny thing, the IPCC and their FARs, upon which ALL of the AGW religion depends, find that solar radiative forcing is negligible in assessing warming trends and causation.
Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by jdub297
Science is clear, there is consensus on AGW. Human activities, mainly through carbon emissions are warming the planet faster than nature can keep up with resulting in drastic climate change. You can scream and cry and buy the propaganda of polluters, all you want. It doesn't change scientific fact.
Virtually 100% of the respondents agree that the climate is changing. However, there is disagreement as to the causes – human, natural, or a combination - and few believe that the debate of the scientific causes is settled.
Climate models, he says, take into account atmospheric motion and water levels but have no feeling for the chemistry and biology of sky, soil and trees. “The biologists have essentially been pushed aside,” he continues. “Al Gore’s just an opportunist. The person who is really responsible for this overestimate of global warming is Jim Hansen. He consistently exaggerates all the dangers. … Hansen has turned his science into ideology”
The greatest barrier to public recognition of human-made climate change is the natural variability of climate.
You choose to believe that polls and surveys are reliable indicators of "science." Not everyone agrees with you, and they are not the idiots, shills and "denialists" you abjure and denigrate.
A 2010 survey of meteorologists conducted by George Mason University found that 63% believe global warming is mostly caused by natural, not human, causes. A National Survey Of Television Meteorologists About Climate Change
Of the 1,408 names and email addresses provided by AMS and NWA, 35 people were ineligible
because we determined that they no longer worked as TV meteorologists, and 44 email addresses
proved to be incorrect (and despite an active search, correct email addresses could not be located).
Therefore, the valid initial denominator of our sample was 1,373. Fifty-nine of these people refused to participate, 743 did not respond, and 571 completed at least some portion of the survey,
yielding a minimum response rate of 41.6% (which assumes that all non-respondents were eligible
to participate).
This study was the largest and most representative survey of television weathercasters
conducted to date. The on-line survey of broadcast television members of the American
Meteorological Society (AMS) and National Weather Association (NWA) was intended to be a
census of the nation’s TV weathercasters. A total of 571 respondents completed at least some portion of the survey, a minimum response rate of 42%, and an adjusted response rate of 52%.
Introduction
Climate change is the result of human actions and choices. Limiting climate change – and protecting people and ecosystems to the degree possible from unavoidable changes in the climate – will require significant public engagement in the issue so that difficult decisions can be made by members of the public and policy makers. Our center was created to conduct unbiased social science research that will facilitate such public engagement.
More About Us
We use social science research methods – experiments, surveys, in-depth interviews and other methods – to find ways of effectively engaging the public and policy makers in the problem, and in considering and enacting solutions. Social science research has played important roles in many social change campaigns over the past several decades, including reducing smoking and littering, and increasing seat belt use and recycling.
Our Mission
Our mission is to conduct unbiased public engagement research - and to help government agencies, non-profit organizations, and companies apply the results of this research - so that collectively, we can stabilize our planet's life sustaining climate.
Our findings confirm that TV weathercasters play – or can play – an important role as
informal science educators. Nearly all of our respondents (94%) said they work at stations that
do not have anyone else covering science or environmental issues full-time. This number verifies
other research showing that only about 10% of TV stations have a dedicated specialist to cover
these topics. By default, and in many cases by choice, science stories become the domain of the
only scientifically trained person in the newsroom—weathercasters. Two-thirds of our
respondents report on science issues once per month or more frequently and one-third would like
to report on science issues more frequently. Topics they cover range from astronomy to zoology,
and many weathercasters have become the point person for expertise on plate tectonics in local TV
newsrooms on the recent earthquakes in Haiti and Chile.