It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
"Most of the propositions and questions of philosophers arise from our failure to understand the logic of our language. And it is not surprising that the deepest philosophical problems are in fact not problems at all." (4.003)
The logical contradiction is:
A is A. A is not B.
B is B. B is not A.
If two objects are identical, A=B
Originally posted by SpearMint
The isn't a logical contradiction. Why can't the value of A be equal to the value of B?
Originally posted by SilentKoala
Originally posted by SpearMint
The isn't a logical contradiction. Why can't the value of A be equal to the value of B?
The values can be equal, but that doesn't mean the objects are equal.
It's like using Java's == operator versus the .equals() method. One tests to see if two things are literally the same object, the other tests to see if two values are equal.
For two things to truly be identical, they have to be the same thing. But then there wouldn't really be two things. One would be redundant. So only something that is unique exists, and anything that exists is by definition unique.edit on 2-2-2013 by SilentKoala because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by SpearMint
The logical contradiction is:
A is A. A is not B.
B is B. B is not A.
If two objects are identical, A=B
The isn't a logical contradiction. Why can't the value of A be equal to the value of B?
Originally posted by retirednature
Originally posted by SpearMint
The logical contradiction is:
A is A. A is not B.
B is B. B is not A.
If two objects are identical, A=B
The isn't a logical contradiction. Why can't the value of A be equal to the value of B?
A= 5 +1
B= 3+3
A=B
Originally posted by SilentKoala
reply to post by SpearMint
Yes but that tests if the values are equal. Even if you set A and B to 1, A and B would be different objects. They are stored in different locations in memory, even though the same value is stored.
A.equals(B) would return true, but A == B would return false.
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by retirednature
Originally posted by SpearMint
The logical contradiction is:
A is A. A is not B.
B is B. B is not A.
If two objects are identical, A=B
The isn't a logical contradiction. Why can't the value of A be equal to the value of B?
A= 5 +1
B= 3+3
A=B
A is A.
B is B.
See that the shape of A is different from the shape of B.
The appearance of A and B are not the same.edit on 2-2-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by SpearMint
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by retirednature
Originally posted by SpearMint
The logical contradiction is:
A is A. A is not B.
B is B. B is not A.
If two objects are identical, A=B
The isn't a logical contradiction. Why can't the value of A be equal to the value of B?
A= 5 +1
B= 3+3
A=B
A is A.
B is B.
See that the shape of A is different from the shape of B.
The appearance of A and B are not the same.edit on 2-2-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)
The letters are irrelevant, they are just aliases. Comparing the letters themselves and comparing the value they represent are two different things. "A = 1. A = 1. A = A." could get confusing, which is why different letters are used.
Originally posted by SpearMint
Originally posted by SilentKoala
reply to post by SpearMint
Yes but that tests if the values are equal. Even if you set A and B to 1, A and B would be different objects. They are stored in different locations in memory, even though the same value is stored.
A.equals(B) would return true, but A == B would return false.
Which is why computer languages are a bad analogy here (especially Java), the same rules don't apply. The only thing that matters is the value, the value in this case is the physical object.
Originally posted by SpearMint
The logical contradiction is:
A is A. A is not B.
B is B. B is not A.
If two objects are identical, A=B
The isn't a logical contradiction. Why can't the value of A be equal to the value of B?
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by SpearMint
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by retirednature
Originally posted by SpearMint
The logical contradiction is:
A is A. A is not B.
B is B. B is not A.
If two objects are identical, A=B
The isn't a logical contradiction. Why can't the value of A be equal to the value of B?
A= 5 +1
B= 3+3
A=B
A is A.
B is B.
See that the shape of A is different from the shape of B.
The appearance of A and B are not the same.edit on 2-2-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)
The letters are irrelevant, they are just aliases. Comparing the letters themselves and comparing the value they represent are two different things. "A = 1. A = 1. A = A." could get confusing, which is why different letters are used.
The A is different from the B. But now you add values to them. The appearance of A and B are different (it is obvious to the eye) but your mind so wants to make them the same because the mind can't see what is - it sees alternatives and adds 'values'.
Eyes see and ears hear but the mind makes up fabrication.edit on 2-2-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by SilentKoala
Originally posted by SpearMint
Originally posted by SilentKoala
reply to post by SpearMint
Yes but that tests if the values are equal. Even if you set A and B to 1, A and B would be different objects. They are stored in different locations in memory, even though the same value is stored.
A.equals(B) would return true, but A == B would return false.
Which is why computer languages are a bad analogy here (especially Java), the same rules don't apply. The only thing that matters is the value, the value in this case is the physical object.
I disagree, because there is no way two physical objects in the real world can have the same "value" without existing in the same place at once. Even if they are physically identical in every single way, if there exists more than one, they must exist in different places, giving them a property (location) that is not identical.
If they exist in the same place at the same time, then they are really the same object, and there is only one. So it is identical to itself, but no two things are identical.
It's analogous to the Existence and Uniqueness Theorem from differential equations, which explains why two solution curves cannot cross or be tangent to each other at any point. If they are tangent then they are really the same solution curve, meaning those two solutions aren't unique with respect to each other, you are really just stating the same one unique solution twice.
Originally posted by SpearMint
A and B are irrelevant, like I said, all they are are aliased so we can actually understand the problem. Literally the only thing that matters is what they represent.
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by SpearMint
I think you should read the opening post and see what the post is saying. It is speaking about the appearance of a thing. It is not speaking about the 'value'.