22 veterans commit suicide each day: VA report

Originally posted by TKDRL
WW2 vets were the last vets to even resemble fighting for the people.

edit on Sat, 02 Feb 2013 17:27:36 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

And it's your attitude that's part of the problem.

How do you know what any of them were fighting for? Did you ask every single one of them?

What about the vets that never went to a war? Don't they deserve any respect for being ready to fight?

There couldn't be a problem because society (i.e people like you) craps on them, could there?

How about we retire all active and reserve duty military right now and let you take over defending the country.

You wouldn't last a minute.

Originally posted by CryHavoc

Originally posted by TKDRL
WW2 vets were the last vets to even resemble fighting for the people.

edit on Sat, 02 Feb 2013 17:27:36 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

There couldn't be a problem because society craps on them, could there?
.

edit on 2-2-2013 by CryHavoc because: (no reason given)

Not only does society treat them bad, but their own chain of command treats them bad often times.


Our service members deserve MUCH better than what they are getting currently.

The article "22 veterans commit suicide each day: VA report" was written by Bill Briggs, NBC News contributor, he wrote.

Also Friday, the U.S. Army released its monthly suicide report, offering a preliminary tally for 2012 in that branch: 325 "potential" suicides among active and reserve troops — the highest number in history, Army officials noted. More than 50 of those deaths remain "under investigation," awaiting a final ruling. If that bleak total remains at 325, the toll in 2012 would have risen by 15 percent over 2011 when the Army sustained 283 suicides.

And when we look at the PDF report it shows that veteran death certificate data was received from 34 states. But only the data from 21 states was "cleaned" for this report. SNEAKY VA.

Project Status
As of November 2012, data have been received from 34 states and data use agreements have
been approved by an additional eight states. Data will be received from these states once the
terms of individual data use and financial arrangements are finalized. An additional 11 states
and territories have not made a decision regarding our request or are in the process of
developing Data Use Agreements for VA review. A total of five states and territories have
requested modifications to the initial request for data sharing or have been unable to identify
an internal point of contact to support this program. www.va.gov...

To date, data from twenty-one (21) states have been cleaned and
entered into a single integrated file containing information on more than 147,000 suicides and
27,062 reported Veterans. www.va.gov...

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


At some point you must ask - WTF is going on!?

Don't tell me PTSD. PTSD is not causing all of these suicides to even try to say that is an insult to all of our intelligence.

Our service members deserve better than this.

The article written by Bill Briggs quoted the VA report. www.va.gov...

I think the VA is making up sensational statistics. Only 21 of 50 states data was used. The attention getting title "22 veterans per day" is a freaking made up hoax number written up by some scandalous government employees and sub-contractors who put together this unreliable crap job of a report.

And the Bill Briggs article should be changed to "Veteran Suicides Up, Because Suicides are Up".



Compare the VA report to the AFSP overall suicide rates ((Source www.afsp.org... )) and given the fact that basically 21% of males are veterans anyway , the suicide rate amongst (male) veterans is not so abnormal. In my opinion, it is statistically sound.
1 out of 5 people who killed themselves were veterans. Therefore the veteran suicide rates are a natural reflection of the national suicide rate.

The VA already knows this 21% figure is a normal statistic because it reads on page 16 of the VA report,

It is important to note that both Veteran populations and those who die by suicide are significantly more likely to be male. According to data provided by the United States Census Bureau, 93% of all Veterans are male and 21% of all males aged 18 years and older have history of U.S. military service.

I know many veterans who feel very sad at what they see happening in the USA. Many of them fought and were wounded or had to kill their fellow human and as a result are in constant physical or mental pain as a result. They feel like their suffering and sacrifice were in vain because big corporations consorted with big government and melded this nation into a beast it was never intended to become.

This beast that lashes out at the world and seeks to dominate it by every means with its evil and selfish intentions. What the USA has become is not the vision of the founders and was not anything like bastion of liberty and freedom many soldiers thought they were fighting for. I guess it is humiliating for many to know what harm they have done to their fellow human to feed the greed and lust for power of evil men. How do you live with that I wonder. Is the suicide rate any wonder given the material and mental support many have given to monsters that would destroy the world or take it for themselves and their small group of conspirators.

War Pigs indeed.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
At some point you must ask - WTF is going on!?

Don't tell me PTSD. PTSD is not causing all of these suicides to even try to say that is an insult to all of our intelligence.

Our service members deserve better than this.

I agree. That's why I went deeper into that VA report and found out that the vet suicide rate is directly proportional to the national suicide rate... and the VA only used 21 states "clean" data. That means 29 states weren't counted.

I wonder what the real totals for veteran suicides are for the entire 50 states. The VA is trying to trick us with these statistics.... by using incomplete data sets.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

I will have to look into that more to verify it. To be honest this is a depressing topic because it hits close to home, so I will get back to it later.

reply to post by benrl


This is a symptom of perpetual war.

reply to post by benrl


toxoplasma bacteria can be blamed for this, The realization of what one is doing and how mindless killers slaughter. It is a disturbing picture for any human who wakes up during the heat of battle. Well, If they had a legit reason to go and kill rather than patriotic pride. You need more then patriotic pride, needs to be a cause worth dieing for. And if these people arnt seeing that and count how many times the blood has fallen on their hands. Yeah, Its understandable. Make them drink borax and clear out some of that fluoride and find reason to contribute to society instead of wasting their life because of pre-determinded guilt.

I am told that when my mother was young, people of her parents generation, were dropping themselves on a fairly regular basis. She recalls three incidents of suicide on just her road. Of course, in those days the UK was recovering from not one, but two World Wars, both of which were so harrowing that they make todays actions look like a church picnic.

WW2 is one of very very few examples of wars that needed to be fought without question, that were as justified as can be, considering the consequence of any military action. My grandfathers were both involved in action against the Nazis, and despite the justification of the allied fight against the xenophobic tyranny of the Nazi Reich, my mothers father used to say that he considered himself a murderer for what he had to do in the second world war.

It seems as if ANY military action is bound to produce widespread negativity in those who are involved with it. Even those who do not kill themselves over it, feel like hell after having been there by the looks of things, no matter the scale of the death toll, no matter the justification of a given action, or a war as a whole.

Psychologically traumatic events, always cause some negative effect in the mind. The question is, how well is the sufferer supported, by friends, family, and by the military (which in some cases becomes all the other two as well as the third)? Has everything that can be done, been done, to ensure the psychological needs of veterans are being met to the highest POSSIBLE standard, rather than the most affordable?

And, the other question (because I doubt that this has ever been the case, despite the protestations of the politicians and bigwigs in military organisations) is will improvements in aftercare for the people who fight for thier nations, on the pretext of defending them and the people within them, actually translate into percentile reductions in veteran suicide?

When my mothers father came back from war, it is probable that masses of veterans were hanging themselves, or sucking in oven gas, or shooting themselves in the head with thier service pistols. But back then, it was not spoken of, let alone a subject of massive public concern. It was taboo to even discuss suicide, due to the fact that suicide was illegal, not to mention religiously prohibited, and therefore not spoken of at all.

Many are likely to have passed during that period, at thier own hands, and yet been totally forgotten by time. Perhaps if the oldest wounds carried by veterans, had been properly documented, if the taboo about suicide and PTSD had been erroded, or never existed, we would be less suprised by the current state of affairs, or better yet, able to deal with the effects of war better as nations in battle.

Since we have no idea however, what it would be like to live in a world where those who fight to defend thier homelands are properly cared for, we cannot be certain of the effects that would have on suicide figures, and other outworkings of PTSD. For all we know, it might be that war causes in some people, utterly unassailable mental dysfunctions, which , no matter the care taken, will result in deaths after the fact... But until those in power decide to spend the time and money finding out, there will be that question, could it be better? It will hang over everything, until it is answered.

reply to post by TrueBrit


agreed. War in general does have that effect on people. any emotional response received will effect both. WW2 is a good example in some cases, because the action of seeing close regiment friends being gunned down by fortified bunkers is pretty traumatizing. But personally i would rather think that the reason i killed people was for a good cause, and not just profit. There is a clear distinction of motivation. Back then, i do not doubt that soldiers themselves ran into projects of the like they disagreed with. The most well known would be the jewish relocation at the time, if you study WW2 you will find plenty going on all around the main world. Pretty interesting, history books say one thing, documents and eye witnesses say another. lol.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter

Originally posted by NarrowGate
At some point you must ask - WTF is going on!?

Don't tell me PTSD. PTSD is not causing all of these suicides to even try to say that is an insult to all of our intelligence.

Our service members deserve better than this.

I agree. That's why I went deeper into that VA report and found out that the vet suicide rate is directly proportional to the national suicide rate... and the VA only used 21 states "clean" data. That means 29 states weren't counted.

I wonder what the real totals for veteran suicides are for the entire 50 states. The VA is trying to trick us with these statistics.... by using incomplete data sets.

Can you make a thread on this please? I would like to see it discussed.

I was rated at 100% disabled with PTSD in 1994 and have been told if I hadn't gotten the rating for that I could have gotten it for the physical injuries I have to manage by taking morphine 3 times daily... If any of you recall PTSD was originally called delayed stress syndrome because unlike the WW2 vets that were suffering from psychiatric breakdowns while in combat due to being in combat for the duration we only had to do 12 or in my situation as a Marine 13 months in country with a release from active duty upon the end of our tour if we had less than 6 months left on our enlistment... We knew we could stand on our heads for that long and had a fraction of the breakdowns in combat that the WW2 guys did... The guys that are in combat today are in a worse situation mentally than we were but I doubt that they have had to endure being out in the field without food or water for days at a time or not able to have medivac choppers come out to pick up casualties for days because of weather conditions... I was in the Corps for a total of 19 months and was on light duty because of being taken out of the infantry company I was in by a doctor at 3rd med in Quang Tri after a back injury that was causing pain and at other times numbness in my legs..He didn't take me out because of that but because he had determined that I was crazy and had been out in the bush too long already just by looking at me ... After the guy had a fit when I told him that I had been out for 10 1/2 months he told me that I was going to be F###ed up for the rest of my life he put a soft shell cast on my right leg and I remained on light duty as a radio relay operator for the 2 1/2 months I was in the Corps... Sooner or later everything catches up with you regardless how hard you deny that there is anything wrong... There was 3 times we had no food for 5 days and once that I came down with what was called Fever of Unknown Origin after going 6 day without eating ,3 days with food and another 5 without... We had gotten choppered back to our combat base and the fever hit me when I was just a few feet from the Bn aid station and I entered the tent on my hands and knees... I had a temperature of 105 degrees, was taken to a tent where the company corpsman was and out of my mind and unable to eat for at least 5 days... I never saw a doctor and was left alone for days in the tent because the company had been taken back out to the bush.... Even other Marines that weren't in combat have a hard time believing me when I tell them about this but the other guys that were with 9th Marines on Operation Dewey Canyon got to experience the same kind of stuff for as long as 56 days on the Laotian Border a few months later... We had a little over 200 men killed and 1400 wounded on that one.. I don't recall the number of enemy killed but it seem to me that it was over 1500 and thousands of tons of weapons, ammo, trucks bulldozers food and medical supplies were destroyed... We were the reason there was no Tet Offensive in 1969.... There is a pretty accurate account of this operation on historynet.com with comments from the Marines that were there... I apologize for springing this on you but I have been awake for a few days and just wanted to try and give you some idea about why some of us are the way we are...

Originally posted by definity
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

Would Obama let his kids join the military when they come of age? would any senator or governor? No it normally poor Americans or normal Americans who have been hypnotised to think that it is a good idea, it happens all over the world.

Just think what would happen if no one signed up for service or wanted to be in the military, wonder how different the world would be.

And a better argument to bring back the draft, as some democratic representatives have suggested, I haven't heard.

Make military or other community service mandatory for entrance into any college in the country. Socialist, yeah - Same rules for everyone (rule of law) - yeah. Our current state has two very different sets of rules - one for the wealthy and connected (that's not you) and one for the rest of us.

Originally posted by CrypticSouthpaw
reply to post by TrueBrit

 

agreed. War in general does have that effect on people. any emotional response received will effect both. WW2 is a good example in some cases, because the action of seeing close regiment friends being gunned down by fortified bunkers is pretty traumatizing. But personally i would rather think that the reason i killed people was for a good cause, and not just profit. There is a clear distinction of motivation. Back then, i do not doubt that soldiers themselves ran into projects of the like they disagreed with. The most well known would be the jewish relocation at the time, if you study WW2 you will find plenty going on all around the main world. Pretty interesting, history books say one thing, documents and eye witnesses say another. lol.

WWII was the 'good' war. My dad was in it, received a silver star & bronze star at the Battle of the Bulge. Then when on to Korea and on into Viet Nam. We stayed way back from him if we ever had to wake him for his entire life (and he died young - 60). My mother said he was never the same after WWII, nor was she after partaking in the occupations of Germany and Japan. My Dad never - never talked about what he went through.

War is never a good thing for anyone except those who want to make money - think about that when you vote for people who want to start wars, for whatever reason.

Having grown up with regular discussions about war and it's purpose, whether there are, in fact just wars and the utility of the military (standing military) I can say that a standing military is dangerous to everyone (see our founding fathers opinions about standing militaries - very different then a citizen militia as in Switzerland or in our constitution) and that war serves no true purpose other than greed and hatred.

I still struggle with the idea of just war - defensive and humanitarian wars, wars to decrease suffering and if such a thing is even possible. I've gotten way off topic.

To those who have served, we, the general population (by our votes) have treated you badly, and I am sorry for all your, and your loved ones pain. There is honor in the service and I would trust a career military person to make decisions before a politician any day, but that line is getting blurred. Today many career military are too political for my taste and upbringing.

Peace People Peace

reply to post by FyreByrd


So you propose we allow people to be oppressed? You propose we should not fight for freedom in other countries? This would be our own demise in the end.

I am anti-war, but there are things going on in the world that make these decisions very hard. Human life should be the top priority. Freedom as well.

We can not allow certain factions to do whatever they want.

eta; you are right about the money aspect though. People profit from war, and at the tax payers expense.

reply to post by FyreByrd


We are a race bred for war. Our capacity for emotion is our tool an asset. If you could flex your emotion and train you. You could influence anyone, with the risk of sounding crazy.. sure what the hell. Be able to speak to animals. And generally be more aware of the sensations of the universe all around you. Those wave lengths. We should have peace amongst our brothers and sisters. But we are a confused drug abused species. Il say this in almost every post cus its hilarious. Parasites. Well. I hope everything goes fine. That some random species from across the galaxy shows up and decides that the beings with a monopoly over this planet need to leave. And we see random flashes of light in the sky with brainwashing saying its a meteor shower.
But i doubt that very much lol. Yeah the elite are controlled by crazy multi dimensional beings that are trying to force us closer to our demise so they can start up more blood type breeding houses again. Like they did in WW2. Know the nazi SS soldiers? hitler loved B- blood for some reason. And he was willing to mill 6 million people through a process to find them. You don't think these fema camps are not just a prototype, but a full scale initiation and integration of the human race? Why on earth would a human set itself up for such near extinction? You can't use world 1 or 2 as an example. And yes people get mad and try to blow things up, but no one ever goes all the way. Not unless your a cult leader pinned on an island you built and called a utopia. lol.

btw you should realize by now. that all the new viruses and bacteria being created in labs and what not infecting the population. Its to force genetic traits to surface amongst the masses. Its a brillant idea actually. Think of botanists. You plant a 100 seeds. your not looking for Ms. you want nice females. but not just any females. you want 1. So you germinate them, find the golden egg of genetics, and you fertilize that mother and cross breed it with another. Keep tabs on the crystal technology coming out. New substances are being made all the time. Eventually they will get the one they need to pwn 5th dimensional beings. There are some good ones out there. but for now. we humanity need to come up with a plan. and fast.


Edit by edit im editing
ps. Also, loving your body does wonders. Never hate your body no matter if its not feeling the best. It will feel a lot better if you feel it out and love your body thinking the reason you feel bad is because your body is fighting something bad. Keep optimistic, teach others without fear and overwhelm them. People become speechless, and absorb like a sponge. You wan't to change the world? Its going to take some heavy DETOX, Diet change. And knowledge of nutrition and self being. All that hippy stuff for the average joe.

reply to post by NarrowGate


Not any more than any other nationality. There are plenty of closeminded americans that think the same about mexicans, iranians, etc. Close minded minorities don't frighten me.