22 veterans commit suicide each day: VA report

reply to post by NarrowGate


Yeah but we do more bad things to them, no wonder they want revenge. TBH their are nut job religious people all over America/Europe and even Africa that run camps Catholics/Christians/Muslims/Scientologists...

We are taught from birth that killing is wrong, and your a bad person if you do it. But when you join the army they put a gun in your hand and say it is okay. This goes against being moral or what we are taught all out lives. Its almost like saying forget what you where taught all your life, for these 18 months (A tour) where you have killed men and pro haps women, may be even children, where you have seen children burnt to a crisp heard about drone attack that have killed 50 innocent (primitive) people every week as well as friends or friends of friends getting killed by IED's. This is far from normal, going against everything you have been taught and to be treated like a puppet because of fake idea that if you love your country you will do it, and how great for you country it is to join the military!!!

Would Obama let his kids join the military when they come of age? would any senator or governor? No it normally poor Americans or normal Americans who have been hypnotised to think that it is a good idea, it happens all over the world.

Just think what would happen if no one signed up for service or wanted to be in the military, wonder how different the world would be.

reply to post by definity


We are fighting the wrong battles imo. We are still fighting the right enemy though. As I said, changes do need to be made.

How would you like to live in a country where the MB is in power? You would be looking for the first operator you could find to give you some guns and ammo. How would you like to see your family members killed for being Christian, and even tortured in some instances? Things like Islamic extremists making kids kill happening around you and your family.

Yeah but we do more bad things to them, no wonder they want revenge.

I know, we are such bad guys. With our western electricity and running water. How dare we bring these things to their countries.

There are definitely changes that need to be made in our military yes definitely and immediately. Starting with removing "nutt to butt". And definitely need longer shorts. In some OSUT'S they give you shorts that are literally what girls wear. Think about what that does to your mentality. It is brain-dead.

Still, believe it or not, we have the morale high ground here BY FAR. I agree about the IED's being too much of a problem, when we are too cheap to under armor the vehicles. It's not that we can't protect our soldiers from them - it's that it would cost money. I think they finally started doing that (under armoring)...

Yes we do a lot of things wrong, and it can be fixed. We need to let our pilots get sleep, and we need to make the tours MUCH shorter - like 3 months not 13. Prolonged exposure to combat = not F*cking good for people unless they want it.

BASICALLY we need to care much more about our soldiers. Then we can help oppressed people fight for freedom properly.

reply to post by NarrowGate


And TBH the chain of command needs to be more lax to fit the landscape of the war we are fighting but that's a different story altogether. I have heard stories from people with multiple tours that are like WTF just get rid of the chain of command.

Also, when you hear privates in basic talking about raping and stealing and drawing penis's on walls - kick them the f*ck out I don't want to be in combat with these idiots.

^^^btw when they get over there they actually end up doing it sometimes. Then you get someone shooting at you because private dumbf*ck raped some poor girl. Shoot private dumbf*ck.

reply to post by 200Plus


Your experience with the VA has been different from most veterans with PTSD because of the service connected physical injuries you are being treated for.. I have been dealing with the VA system for 42 years and have seen a major improvement in recent years but in the past it was hell trying to get any kind of care and still be able to provide income for yourself and family.. At the Dallas VA Hospital there were long lines of vets waiting in lines for care and medications that resulted in fights and at times a frustrated vet would end up on a locked psych ward for expressing his dissatisfaction with the system.. I can recall some changes being made after a vet was stabbed to death while in line waiting to get medication... I am becoming anxious just thinking about how bad it was and how many guys I have met over the years that have died early from stress or by their own hand after giving up hope...

I worked with a manager and he and I went to a 2 day conference together. We shared a hotel as he was a new manager who was also a single father. During the middle of the night, I was woke up by blood curdling screams. I thought a murderer was under his bed. I was in complete panic. I jumped up to find the lights and when I flicked them on, he was coming after me screaming at the top of his lungs like he was stabbed. Everything was actually okay. I woke him up and had to tell the hotel manager we were fine and not being killed or something. He explained he was suffering PSTD as a few months earlier he got out of the service where he did a tour in Iraq.

Originally posted by derekg
I worked with a manager and he and I went to a 2 day conference together. We shared a hotel as he was a new manager who was also a single father. During the middle of the night, I was woke up by blood curdling screams. I thought a murderer was under his bed. I was in complete panic. I jumped up to find the lights and when I flicked them on, he was coming after me screaming at the top of his lungs like he was stabbed. Everything was actually okay. I woke him up and had to tell the hotel manager we were fine and not being killed or something. He explained he was suffering PSTD as a few months earlier he got out of the service where he did a tour in Iraq.

PTSD causes nightmares and auditory hallucination that often goes away. It can also cause people to isolate and things like that. It is no danger to any of us. While it is a real condition, I do not even think it should be considered a disorder. Half the people in the city (exaggeration) have PTSD; it just goes undiagnosed. The last thing we should do is accept the story that all of these suicides are caused purely by PTSD. There is a lot more going on.

The last thing we should do is brand our veterans as having a disorder just because they have PTSD. A lot of people have PTSD. While it should be addressed, it should not be scrutinized and used as a scapegoat to cover up the real issues.

reply to post by NarrowGate


I think the rule of thumbs, as to whether or not something is considered a disorder, is if it really messes up living normally. Generally I would say PTSD qualifies as a disorder. As with every disorder, some people handle it better than others, and can still seem to function OK with it.

reply to post by benrl
You know just maybe the fact that the military keeps sending these people back for 2,3,4 tours would leave them to think that at this rate the odds dictate that i will get killed sooner rather then later so why go through the hell of anther 12 to 14 months in what has been discribed by some as a living hell...............just a thought.

reply to post by benrl


It's sad to see people take their lives. But everyone gets to make their own choices in life and no one forced them to join our military that's operated by a corrupt govt. Better make sure your financially and mentally stable before joining the military industrial complex just for its benefits/free money or whatever reason it may be and be prepared for the govt to stop helping out when you get back.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

I think the rule of thumbs, as to whether or not something is considered a disorder, is if it really messes up living normally. Generally I would say PTSD qualifies as a disorder. As with every disorder, some people handle it better than others, and can still seem to function OK with it.

Everything can mess up living normally potentially. How do you know if it is the PTSD causing the "normal living" to be messed up? How do you even freaking define normal living? If PTSD interferes with your work, you are in the wrong line of work. It is a condition not a disorder.

Further, I can't stand the idea of branding our service members as having a disorder just because they have seen combat. PTSD gets better as time goes on.
It also has benefits believe it or not. PTSD can save your life. I submit that it is a condition and not a disorder.

In fact, PTSD saved the life of this person I know.

Originally posted by Battleline
reply to post by benrl

 

You know just maybe the fact that the military keeps sending these people back for 2,3,4 tours would leave them to think that at this rate the odds dictate that i will get killed sooner rather then later so why go through the hell of anther 12 to 14 months in what has been discribed by some as a living hell...............just a thought.

edit on 2-2-2013 by Battleline because: (no reason given)

Exactly. They are looking at this as a numbers game. Problem is, it is not a numbers game. People are involved.

You can't do 3 12 month+ tours unless you are a very special kind of person. It is just not something we should ask of them.

It is better to have less people over there, with shorter rotations, and better equipment and training. Better quality war fighters and less influence from the chain of command. Anyone willing to wear girls shorts and go nutt to butt should be automatically DQ'd.

They knew what they were getting into when they signed up for it.reply to post by benrl

Originally posted by benrl

22 veterans commit suicide each day: VA report

usnews.nbcnews.com

The report notes that while the numbers of veterans who die by suicide each day "has remained relatively stable over the past 12 years," the overall percentage of people who die by suicide in America who are veterans has decreased slightly. The share of all suicides reported as "veterans" on state-issued death certificates was 25 percent in 1999 versus slightly more than 20 percent in 2010, according to VA researchers.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Uh....that 8,030 per year.

That cannot be true.

I'm a Vet, from Vietnam, and have had my share of visits to the VA since I had to have an artificial Heart Valve put in in 2000. The VA Hospital for most of that time was in Loma Linda California. While there were plenty of guys going and playing the crazy act, and after the examinations or appointments left only to put their street clothes back on and drop the crazy act and go back home, I did in fact see a couple of Real Crazies. Really not in possession of their faculties. These guys were either the BEST actors I had ever seen, or they were really looped. I tend to believe the latter. I have a Cousin that was in Vietnam the same time I was there.

He's doing the 'PTSD' thing right now.... because along with a couple legit things that are presumptive in the Agent Orange list. He does have prostrate cancer and diabetes, presumed from exposure to Agent Orange. Ok that's legit, but I know for a fact that the PTSD is for monetary only, because it pays $3-4 hundred a month more in VA disability benefits. All told He makes about $1500 a month on the VA. Enough to go buy a new car last month, a 40K car.

On the other hand those who need help the most and are crazy fall through the cracks, nobody notices them or they become homeless or vagrants and the Law would be their only prospect of falling into the VA health care system. These are the people from my time Vietnam of the 60's that are finding it unbearable and offing themselves. BUT, our boys and girls from Iraq and Afghanistan are at most risk right now. They are also being denied VA health care or made to jump through hoops just to get accepted in the health care system. Unable to deal with a society who has all but abandon them. These are your children........ they have risked everything fighting a war, 'right or wrong' regardless, they have become the casualties of war. There are so many wrongs in this world, but this abandonment doesn't have to be one of them.
I have seen these people at the VA, some missing arms and legs............ it's hard to complain about anything after seeing these truly disabled Vets. At times it has shredded my heart seeing them, and I have cried silent tears walking out to the parking lot to go home.

reply to post by benrl


For some time now I've wondered if the current wars are really a plan to break the military to promote a more mechanized/roboticized "war machine".

"American citizens, you no longer need to send your sons and daughters to war! Long has the greatest American minds labored to see this day, no longer will any family have to display a star in their window, no longer will they fear the knock on the door or phone call in the night"

When the loss of life is mitigated from part of the equation, policy makers can wage war at will. Someone piss you off? send a drone to drop a bomb, etc. Right now the only thing Drones can't do is hold territory, so you can bet that is priority one for top brass.

Originally posted by tetsuoatx
They knew what they were getting into when they signed up for it.

Seriously? It's blatantly obvious you've never met a military recruiter.

Also, this is an example of what the problem was/is for the Viet Nam vets:

youtu.be...

World War II vets are the last to be treated like the heroes that they are.

reply to post by CryHavoc


Nam vets were drafted, a bit different.
WW2 vets were the last vets to even resemble fighting for the people.

Originally posted by tetsuoatx
They knew what they were getting into when they signed up for it.reply to post by benrl

 

This is so f*cking ignorant it is ridiculous. They didn't tell me I would have to wear girls shorts and be told to go "nutt to butt" a few times a day. They stole a few peoples bonuses in fine print in reception. If you get your leg blown off in combat, THEY TAKE YOUR BONUS because you are unable to finish your contract. gtfo with this nonsense. All of this that I have mentioned is just the tip of the iceberg.

We treat our soldiers like sh*t and justify it with BS like the quote provided. Don't be one of them please...

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by CryHavoc

 

Nam vets were drafted, a bit different.
WW2 vets were the last vets to even resemble fighting for the people.

edit on Sat, 02 Feb 2013 17:27:36 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

This is a false statement. Do you think no one wants to kill you just for being American?

People really need to support our troops more. You don't understand what they go through and how much they are lied to.

You don't understand their sacrifice.

You don't understand how bad the chain of command can get.

You don't understand that we NEED our service members, and our country is not just being empirical. We actually have people trying to kill us.

eta; not to mention the rest of the world actually does indeed need our help. Too bad certain countries and groups of "people" (if you can call them that) make that hard on us, because we are really trying to help.

You don't know what it is like to be oppressed, because people have been shedding blood and having their blood shed so you won't have to know what it is like.