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Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by 11235813213455
Property is limited to personal such as your home, currency, transportation etc.
And I guess you could look at shareholding as limited to workers only.
Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by 11235813213455
Oh My God... you have to be one of the most agonizingly ill informed knee jerk reaction posters on this site..
Gosh, I feel unloved
Fascism and Socialism are demonstrably and historically NOT polar opposites.
Really? Apparently there's at least one poster more agonizingly ill informed than myself.
Mussolini's own words:
No individuals or groups (political parties, cultural associations, economic unions, social classes) outside the State (15). Fascism is therefore opposed to Socialism to which unity within the State (which amalgamates classes into a single economic and ethical reality) is unknown, and which sees in history nothing but the class struggle. Fascism is likewise opposed to trade unionism as a class weapon. But when brought within the orbit of the State, Fascism recognizes the real needs which gave rise to socialism and trade unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or corporative system in which divergent interests are coordinated and harmonized in the unity of the State (16).
I'll couch that because trying to explain that to you is like me trying to have a conversation with a brick and convince it not to be a brick.
Ouch, my feelings!
As far as I can tell there are exactly as many definitions of socialism as there are socialists
No, there is only one correct one... you mentioned it already.
Frankly what you propose scares the hell out of me and would burn the world down.
Some people are scared and need Nannies, I understand.
I would choose Obamas socialism over yours any day of the week.
Naturally. Why should a Capitalist be un-agreeable to a Capitalist?
Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
You describe Statism, not Socialism.
Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by 11235813213455
My poor feelings...again!
I'm not confusing anything, it's just common sense to me. How can there be responsibility or stakes laid at any other feet other than the individual worker under Socialism? Independent contractor would be the best way to describe the status of a worker post capitalism as opposed to proprietor, liability would be the workers.
Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by 11235813213455
My poor feelings...again!
I'm not confusing anything, it's just common sense to me. How can there be responsibility or stakes laid at any other feet other than the individual worker under Socialism? Independent contractor would be the best way to describe the status of a worker post capitalism as opposed to proprietor, liability would be the workers.
Originally posted by 11235813213455
reply to post by spacedog1973
Well it seems the only requirement here on ATS for one to be a socialist is for one to be for worker ownership of the means of production....
So Obama being a union stooge (SEIU)... then ya... he's a socialist.
Originally posted by Chadwickus
So he's a Socialist Nazi Capitalist Muslim Anti-Christ Nobel peace prize winner with fascist tendencies...?
Epic.
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
It should become more apparent as Obamacare begins to be more operable. Doctors will be told who they can treat, where they can practice, what treatments they can give patients.
Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
No they're not Socialism/Communism = Worker owned means of production, the end. Therefore State owned anything by default is not Socialism, how hard is this to comprehend? It is as absurd as trying to claim that private ownership is Socialism too... they are three separate economic systems. Your continued paranoid delusions do not make me wrong no matter how many times the voices tell you so.
Originally posted by region331
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
It should become more apparent as Obamacare begins to be more operable. Doctors will be told who they can treat, where they can practice, what treatments they can give patients.
Are you sure this is right? I may have be misinformed on this but as I understood it, if you have money/insurance you can still pay privately for treatment.
Social Healthcare is for those who can't afford insurance or who don't want to pay for it and admittedly they'll get whatever the State can afford.
The latest front is the opinion pages of the New York Times, which recently published two Op-Eds openly advocating medical rationing. The first was by their economics columnist Eduardo Porter, “Rationing Health Care More Fairly” (8/21/2012).
Porter argued that rationing was “inevitable” and the only question was how best to implement it. He advocated a system like Great Britain’s, which doesn’t pay for medical therapies costing more than $31,000 – $47,000 per year of life gained. Similarly, he praised New Zealand’s approach of not paying for vaccines that cost more than $20,000 per year of life gained.
The second pro-rationing piece was by Obama administration advisor Steve Rattner, “Beyond ObamaCare” (9/16/2012). Rattner stated up front, “We need death panels.”
Rattner advocated restricting medical spending on the elderly, especially on patients in their last year of life, because such spending “consumes more than a quarter of the [Medicare] program’s budget.
/ex]
From this, it is clear that they DO mean to use rationing of services to keep the budget, and that any claims to the contrary are just lies to get unsuspecting people on board, and any time you hear people saying this isn't socialism, they are either lying or they don't understand fabian socialism, which is socialism enacted in increments, that is, not all at once. They know what their end game is, but most people do not.
Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
Free enterprise would flourish under Socialism, because again the State would have nothing to do with it and flourish more so because access to exploitation is 100% denied.
No. Socialism falls under Libertarianism
Libertarian socialism (sometimes called social anarchism[1][2] or left-libertarianism)[3][4] is a group of political philosophies that promote a non-hierarchical, non-bureaucratic society without private property in the means of production. Libertarian socialists believe in converting present-day private productive property into common or public goods, while retaining respect for personal property.[5] Libertarian socialism is opposed to coercive forms of social organization. It promotes free association in place of government and opposes the social relations of capitalism, such as wage labor.[6] The term libertarian socialism is used by some socialists to differentiate their philosophy from state socialism,[7][8] and by some as a synonym for left anarchism.[1][2][9]
Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
I already call it State Capitalism because that is the correct term, how about you join me? Use the correct term and I even agree with you at times. See? Now we're no longer divided on every single thing.
Do you get it now?