NASA knew Columbia crew could die but chose not to tell them

reply to post by stirling

The analysis determined that burn through would not be a problem. And it wasn't. That is not what caused the disaster. Shuttles have landed with missing tiles.

What makes you think there were EVA suits on board?

reply to post by kettlebellysmith


True, to an extent.
Read the links in my post above.

After the shuttle flipped end over end once, then broke up, what redundancies of any kind could protect/rescue the astronauts from the trauma at that point?

All I can offer in this argument is that I was involved in the launch and recovery of this vehicle, (as a vip protection escort of IIan Ramon), and in the days following the reentry failure there was absolutely no indication that anyone knew anything as to any expectation the result of reentry nor the subsequent catastrophe, everyone was completely shocked and totally at a loss.
I have photos, and a certificate of appreciation, but its worth nothing here without verifying my identity.

The Columbia investigation board found that the crewmembers didn't have time to configure their suits to protect against depressurization, which occurred rapidly. In fact, some of the astronauts were not wearing their safety gloves, and one didn't even have a helmet on, because of how quickly the accident took place. [Columbia Shuttle Disaster Explained (Infographic)]

www.space.com...

Columbia was lost when the air drag across its left wing, created by turbulence around a growing hole on the leading edge, jerked its nose to the left too strongly for steering rockets to overcome. It then turned end over end at least once before aerodynamic braking broke its back and tore it into pieces. The crew cabin was then crushed and torn apart by the severe deceleration.

P.S. at Mach 15 — and its 40-mile altitude.

1 considered this as well, but felt the techs for such plans would cause "tech exposure" and there are probably issues with integrating/assisting w/o better closure to these issues.

Its understood making hard decisions takes a piece out of those who have to consciously think out and then act upon them. So no dis there its just wild better ways or contingency plans are/were not permitted or established yet..

I just finished the mini series "from the earth to the moon" and there was a couple times something like this came up where they didn't tell them and a few times when they did tell them but the astronauts wanted to proceed anyway.

I think every astronaut, just like soldiers, know that their job is highly risky.

With all that being said....id wanna know....maybe get out a couple last messages....i think id launch myself towards the moon...maybe someday they could find me there...and we could do a study on my body later to see how quickly we deteriorate on the moon. Would be my one last way to help humanity.

They were well aware they had a chance of dieing. It comes with the territory.

I put myself in the shoes of the crew and if I was knowingly or possibly about to die and someone knew, I would want them to tell me. That's me though.

Why?

If it were me, I would have lived a good life. I would have also died doing what I loved most. My family could have a few last words from me knowing that I am at peace and to celebrate my life and not mourn the loss of a face as I will always be with them in spirit. Ya know something along those lines. I would want to know.

reply to post by Phage

Can you give us a run down of the backup plan that was in place for Apollo 13?
What redundancies were in place?

Does "winging it" count?

Originally posted by TrueAmerican " NASA WOULD NOT TELL US, if there were indeed a deadly asteroid inbound "

they wouldn't. and they won't.

reply to post by TsukiLunar

In the blog post on which this is centered, Hale says this:

After one of the MMTs when possible damage to the orbiter was discussed, he gave me his opinion: “You know, there is nothing we can do about damage to the TPS. If it has been damaged it’s probably better not to know. I think the crew would rather not know. Don’t you think it would be better for them to have a happy successful flight and die unexpectedly during entry than to stay on orbit, knowing that there was nothing to be done, until the air ran out?”

I was hard pressed to disagree. That mindset was widespread. Astronauts agreed.

He then goes on to say that the real problem is in deciding that there is nothing to be done.

After the accident, when we were reconstituting the Mission Management Team, my words to them were “We are never ever going to say that there is nothing we can do.” That is hindsight.

waynehale.wordpress.com...

I always thought it was kind of short sighted that NASA sort of gave up on an escape system after Apollo. At least with the Saturn, you had an escape tower on liftoff that gave you somewhat of a chance of making it (not much, but better than nothing). Columbia was originally fitted with ejection seats, then nothing. That was really kind of callous and I find it hard to believe the astronauts went along with it. Now we are headed back for capsules, and maybe they don't have the bravado factor that the shuttles did, but they are WAY safer. One last thing. Why did NASA not have some kind of honest to God rescue craft on standby for EVERY shuttle mission to offload the crew in case of an event like the one that killed the Columbia crew? I will never get that. We spend all these years building a plethora of lifting bodies, any of which could have been modified for use as a lifeboat, launched from a conventional rocket, big enough to get a crew home. But we never did. Why?

Originally posted by RoScoLaz

Originally posted by TrueAmerican " NASA WOULD NOT TELL US, if there were indeed a deadly asteroid inbound "

they wouldn't. and they won't.

That's what's called a strawman argument.

NASA didn't tell their Astronauts that there was a chance they could die, despite the fact that when they were selected to be astronauts, they were told that space travel was high risk and that they could die at any time anyway.

Is far from being the same as not telling the entire world that a deadly asteroid is incoming.

But that's besides the point anyway, since they did tell them.

So....is this proof that NASA would tell the world if a deadly asteroid was inbound?

See what I did there?

I just thought of a big what-if that will irk some of you UFO buffs. What if they had docked with a TR3B and offloaded the crew, then hid in a cloud while the crew bailed out at say 20k feet, let the shuttle burn up and tell the public a little fib:

"Miraculously the crew compartment remained intact long enough for the crew to bail out and parachute to safety."

Problem solved.

Originally posted by Phage
Astronauts agreed.

end thread

Phage is right, personally I presented no facts in my own post, I did say that perhaps the command knew what was about to happen, that is only own speculation and I should have added that was the case.

I'm inclined to agree - a happy, cheerful, emotional soul is far more reassuring and inspiring to a future age of spaceflight than a lost, drifting, bleak death.

I think NASA did the right thing, rightly or wrongly - these brave people did not hurt, fear or suffer.

What NASA should have done is put out a world wide alert, asking the public if anyone had any ideas or solutions to the problem that they are encountering.

The more people who know about a problem, the higher the stakes in someone being able to solve it.

Love and harmony
Whateva

I can't criticize the decision to not tell them the truth, bottom line I'm not an astronaut, but if it was me up there I wouldn't want to know.

But it does bring to mind that if there was a threat to the earth, would they tell us?

I would want to know, to leave no unfinished business.

Suffocation or incineration? The first one without a doubt. Painless and you'll just fall asleep from breathing in your own carbon dioxide. Slow, yes but painless. I would have wanted the choice. After an hour I might have even let myself float outside and remove my helmet. Perhaps even give the others my O2 to breath by removing myself. Or maybe do a space walk and rig something up, replacing damaged tiles with good ones. screw the false sense of security. I would want to know.

Originally posted by Zaphod58

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
My God. I mean you figure that something else might have been attempted, like a rescue of some sorts?

How? The only thing that could have brought them home was a shuttle, and there wasn't another shuttle even close to being ready to launch. By the time they could have gotten to them, they would have been dead from lack of oxygen. The ISS wasn't really a choice because then they would have been risking the ISS crew as well, because it wasn't designed to hold that many people, even with the extra O2 from the shuttle. And if they used the escape craft from the ISS to bring some of the shuttle crew home, what does the ISS have anymore if they needed it?

Personally, I wouldn't want to know. Let me die thinking everything was ok, and I had just had a successful mission in orbit, and go out on a good note, instead of being terrified the entire way down.

Perhaps the resources at Vandenberg AFB, could have been utilized. Plenty of supplies could have been sent to them via a Titan IV by the 30th Space Wing.