Are divorced Christians condemned to hell?

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posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 11:32 AM
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No. And learn to Love and realize what the control grid is.

Genesis 32 30 tells us Jacob met God in the city of his pineal.

Use discernment with anything relating to scriptures or religions.




posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville


So, the answer is, I think, if the marriage is not valid to begin with, and they divorce, then remarry someone else, then they are fornicating (from a religious standpoint). But condemned? Only the good Lord knows.

Of course not everyone on this board is Christian so I'm sure there'll be folks that will disagree.
edit on 2/1/2013 by IsidoreOfSeville because: (no reason given)


So a man and wife having sex is fornication to you.

Sorry to have disturbed you.
I thought I was speaking to a moral man.

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by LennayTheUndead
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


You know...people would have religion "crammed" down their throats a lot less frequently if they didn't ask for it. What purpose does it serve to chastise anyone for practicing (or not practicing) whatever religion they choose (or don't choose) to practice?..


The purpose is to reduce the harm that religions create and if you are not fighting that then you are not much of a person and have no social conscience.

It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists as well as those who do not believe. They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief or not. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic are evil.

www.youtube.com...

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
www.youtube.com...

Jesus Camp 1of 9
www.liveleak.com...

Death to Gays.
www.youtube.com...

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Greatest I am
 



I just put a TED link above if you care to see how our morals are better than the bible Gods

Another Ted talk related to morality..



Thanks. I will give it a listen.

I also wanted to give you kudos for patience.
I wish I had as much and am working to that end.

Regards
DL
edit on 2-2-2013 by Greatest I am because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by LittleByLittle
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 




“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”


I agree but most people who are married are not even close to being one flesh. That kinda connection between two people seem to be a rare thing. What if gods purpose is to have two people temporary together to grow and the split up to find their true one flesh that they can have the true connection with but was to immature before to be able to have?

Humans keep simplyfying what is right and wrong without having walked in the persons shoe and knowing what is really going on.


I am starting to think people do not read my posts before responding. I prefaced what I was saying in my second post in this thread:


However, we live in a very different world and times are a changing so this may not apply to everyone, so let me preface the above with the assumption that we are speaking strictly from a religious background.


Trust me, the romantic in me is agreeing with this statement:

What if gods purpose is to have two people temporary together to grow and the split up to find their true one flesh that they can have the true connection with but was to immature before to be able to have?


In my opinion, people are marrying for the wrong reasons, like what you said about them too immature, but if I ever get married, I will get married for the right reasons and will never get a divorce, but would probably give it some thought if she were to ever cheat on me. I don't have any expectations in a divorce happening however.

But seriously, actually read and internalize my posts before choosing to respond... I do promote for one to share his or her opinion, but just as I would read yours, please give me the courtesy of doing the same.

I was speaking from a traditional Judeo-Christian perspective but I also ended that summary saying that although people that divorce their other for any other reason other than adultery are sinners, we are all sinners and we should not condemn anyone, i.e. story of the adulterer when Jesus says to the woman no one condemned her and neither would Jesus.

Trust me, that last line that you stated in your response is a message I preach all the time. I word my posts specifically to fit this message.
edit on 2-2-2013 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
" If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

1 John 1:9


I see.

So you, if you are divorced, can knowingly live in sin for years and years and on your death bed ask for forgiveness ---- even as you know you do not repent, or you would have stopped your ways years in the past, ---- and God will forgive you.

How droll.
Again, you do my work of discrediting Christianity for me.

Regards
DL


You can have forgiveness and get a needed vacation. But someday you still will have to fix the mess you created if there is any left. To be of god (the ONE the bible hints of) you have to take responsibility. Even Jesus said that himself. But judging yourself to hard for what you have done is only foolish since it is better to put your effort on fixing it than wasting time with destructive thoughts of not being good enought.

But then what the bible considers sin and what god does is probably very different because god is not a small minded one brain person but has all the information stored in all brains and can understand the interactions between different people better than any human with one brain can. A human normally do not even have control and knowledge of his unconscious. Try not to judge to hard until you have the whole picture (one of my biggest issues) and do not worry to much. Sooner or later we all get it on one level or another. finding your way home is just a matter of time.


Forgiveness from God is not required if no sin is in question. In the issues here, there is no sin.
There is nothing that needs fixing except religion's or God's error.

As to responsibility. That is the last thing Christians do as they rely on an impossible resurrection of their scapegoat to absorb their responsibilities. They should be saving themselves as scriptures say they can without a reliance on a barbaric human sacrifice and scapegoat Jesus.

You state facts about a God who is said to be unfathomable.
How is it that you can fathom the unfathomable?

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by stupid girl

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Are divorced Christians condemned to hell?

One of God’s main rules is on divorce and his policy is ---- let no man put asunder.
bibleapps.com...

IOW, there are no excuses for divorce and it is a sin to do it.

This view is enforced by Jesus and he chastised Moses for adding terms for divorce.

Divorced Christians, ---- statistics show up to 60% of all Christians, ---- are thus living in sin and I wondered if Christians thought that they were condemned because of their choice to divorce.

If you are a divorced Christian, do you think God’s policy just and if not, why do you remain a condemned Christian?

Regards
DL


I still have not figured out whether you truly enjoy goading people of faith with your threads, or if you just enjoy trying to cross-examine Christian doctrine against itself in pointless circular arguments?

And why I choose to torture myself by even participating in them leaves me at an even bigger loss. I guess it's sorta like a train wreck-- you know there's going to be obscene wreckage but the fascination of all the sheer possibilities of how that carnage could play itself out completely overwhelms any dignity and reason.

The Bible gives two grounds for divorce, 1) adultery; 2) abandonment. Having said that, I certainly don't claim to know the mind of God, but I can learn of His nature and of my perception thus far, I would think it entirely reasonable to speculate that He would not condone nor expect someone to stay in a situation wherein they live under a perpetual threat of harm.

Regardless, the answer to your question is 'No', divorced Christians are not damned to hell simply for the sake of being a divorcee.
My mother is currently going through divorce number 5. She makes ignorant, selfish choices. She has lived a life of strife and turmoil. I can give her prudent counsel until I'm blue in the face, but some people only learn through their own experience-- whether for better, or worse-- and we all have our own battles to fight so judging someone for the way they fight that battle is idiotic and naive.
Despite all that, my mother truly loves God and wants to have happiness in her life, she just keeps making stupid decisions. And no matter how far down in the muddy pit she digs herself, she always comes to that moment of reckoning at which point only God can pluck her ignorant ass up out of there, wash her off and continue to patiently watch over her as she continues her fumbling journey towards eternity.

We are not perfect, nor are we even capable of such. God has not invested Himself in this creation simply to set it up for failure. He is acutely aware of our flaws, faults, shortcomings and unsavory tendencies.
Every single one of us will continue to fall prey to our inherently selfish nature one way or another until the day we die. We are all running this race and we will all cross over the finish line, therefore it is how we run it that determines our true character at the end.
edit on 2-2-2013 by stupid girl because: (no reason given)


I am pleased that we agree on divorced people not being condemned.

That is partly why I do OP's? Thanks for asking.

I have two other main reasons.
One is to seek truth through the confirmation of my views. I put all I believe to be true through the fires of debate and examination. We all like to be right and all should always keep questioning their beliefs for soundness.

"Test all things"
1 Thessalonians. 5:21

My other reason is that for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing. I feel it my duty and also like to do ---- something ----- against what I see as evil.

It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists as well as those who do not believe. They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief or not. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic are evil.

www.youtube.com...

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
www.youtube.com...

Jesus Camp 1of 9
www.liveleak.com...

Death to Gays.
www.youtube.com...

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by stupid girl
 



The Bible gives two grounds for divorce, 1) adultery; 2) abandonment. Having said that, I certainly don't claim to know the mind of God


What a baffling juxtaposition that is! The belief in the Bible and the belief you don't know the mind of God.

What is the Bible but a description of God's mind. A representation of 'his' thoughts and wishes and judgements..

Holding affirmation in the divinity of the Bible IS the claim to know the mind of God.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 06:21 PM
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Those in Rome and amongst the Wolves and ruling class didn't even know the mind of God when they wrote much of the Bible.

Discernment and go within, be water. Empty your mind, be water my friend. Dont put walls in that separate man, instead be Kindness and simply don't judge others and believe God/Goodness and Higher Self can lead anyone on any path away from harm.

There is no Smiting God up there, and you have to harm others directly not in ways that prevent more harm, like staying in a bad relationship often does. Like Rape, murder, following bad orders, that get you into harsher waters, but God forgives, its Higher Self that is the task master because our souls want to be perfect.

That doesnt mean our HS may be OK with someone abandoning another because they want to be selfish, and abandoning wife and child, or a husband who is unemployed. I don't believe selfishness scores any brownie points.
edit on 2-2-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by stupid girl
 



The Bible gives two grounds for divorce, 1) adultery; 2) abandonment. Having said that, I certainly don't claim to know the mind of God


What a baffling juxtaposition that is! The belief in the Bible and the belief you don't know the mind of God.

What is the Bible but a description of God's mind. A representation of 'his' thoughts and wishes and judgements..

Holding affirmation in the divinity of the Bible IS the claim to know the mind of God.


No one can read my mind, they can only know what I tell them and observe my actions.
I would never be so presumptuous to claim to know God's thoughts, nor the capability to comprehend His eternal ways with my finite understanding.

Thus the Bible is just as you described-- His revelation of His personal thoughts, wishes and judgment.

His ways are above our ways and His mind infinitely superior, thus it is my personal opinion that as His creation, especially in its current flawed state, we are incapable of understanding or knowing the mind of God. We can only know what He shares with us.
To even begin to know the mind of God, we would have to have the knowledge and understanding required to create the entire universe and everything in it. It seems obvious to me that we still have a long way to go.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
What a baffling juxtaposition that is! The belief in the Bible and the belief you don't know the mind of God. What is the Bible but a description of God's mind. A representation of 'his' thoughts and wishes and judgements..
Holding affirmation in the divinity of the Bible IS the claim to know the mind of God.


You think the Bible tells us the mind of God? You don't think that a whole lotta' human baggage got mixed in? I certainly do. Onanism for example. In the Old Testament poor Onan died (after 'spilling his seed) and the peasants said that God slew him for 'spilling his seed' because it was a sin worthy of going to hell for. I"m really thinking that's some human baggage that got mixed in with 'the mind of God'... ya' know??


For those who think the Bible is the mind of God .... good for you. I'm happy for you. Enjoy yourselves. However, I see way too much human interference to be able to say it's a perfect example of the mind of God.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Onan did not suffer death because he blew his wad into the dirt. Onan died because he expressly rebelled against something God specifically asked him to do, which was produce offspring with his brother's widow. And at the context of the time, this was a highly important familial duty which would have been a great offense to not uphold.

The context in this particular case is the death of Onan's brother before he was able to have children with his own wife. When a man died and left no children, the next of kin was sometimes obligated to produce children with the widow of their deceased relation.
Any children produced would be considered as descendents of the original deceased husband and would be raised as such. The offspring would then be able to take care of their widowed mother, contribute more to the clan, and eventually raise their own children, continuing the name of that family.

This would have been a basic way of life for Onan, therefore he understood what God was asking him to do but he refused to take part in furthering the honor of his brother's name, the wife, and her future care.

To God, this was despicable character worthy of removing from influencing others to do same.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by stupid girl

To God, this was despicable character worthy of removing from influencing others to do same.



Whereas in Hitler's case....



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by stupid girl

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by stupid girl
 



The Bible gives two grounds for divorce, 1) adultery; 2) abandonment. Having said that, I certainly don't claim to know the mind of God


What a baffling juxtaposition that is! The belief in the Bible and the belief you don't know the mind of God.

What is the Bible but a description of God's mind. A representation of 'his' thoughts and wishes and judgements..

Holding affirmation in the divinity of the Bible IS the claim to know the mind of God.


No one can read my mind, they can only know what I tell them and observe my actions.
I would never be so presumptuous to claim to know God's thoughts, nor the capability to comprehend His eternal ways with my finite understanding.

Thus the Bible is just as you described-- His revelation of His personal thoughts, wishes and judgment.

His ways are above our ways and His mind infinitely superior, thus it is my personal opinion that as His creation, especially in its current flawed state, we are incapable of understanding or knowing the mind of God. We can only know what He shares with us.
To even begin to know the mind of God, we would have to have the knowledge and understanding required to create the entire universe and everything in it. It seems obvious to me that we still have a long way to go.


Self-abasement is a high form of pride.

If A E were bright enough to become as God said, as Gods in the knowing of good and evil, why would you think you are not up to the task?

Atyrange that you think your God makes defective people.
If you are that low on the intelligence scale, then why would scriptures urge you to be like God?

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by stupid girl
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Onan did not suffer death because he blew his wad into the dirt. Onan died because he expressly rebelled against something God specifically asked him to do, which was produce offspring with his brother's widow. And at the context of the time, this was a highly important familial duty which would have been a great offense to not uphold.

The context in this particular case is the death of Onan's brother before he was able to have children with his own wife. When a man died and left no children, the next of kin was sometimes obligated to produce children with the widow of their deceased relation.
Any children produced would be considered as descendents of the original deceased husband and would be raised as such. The offspring would then be able to take care of their widowed mother, contribute more to the clan, and eventually raise their own children, continuing the name of that family.

This would have been a basic way of life for Onan, therefore he understood what God was asking him to do but he refused to take part in furthering the honor of his brother's name, the wife, and her future care.

To God, this was despicable character worthy of removing from influencing others to do same.


www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



You think the Bible tells us the mind of God?


I very much do not.

Apologies if my point was too esoteric.

My position is that the Bible claims to know the mind of God, and by proximal reasoning people that believe in the divinity of the Bible are making the same claim.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by stupid girl
 



His ways are above our ways and His mind infinitely superior, thus it is my personal opinion that as His creation, especially in its current flawed state, we are incapable of understanding or knowing the mind of God.

I couldn't agree more



We can only know what He shares with us.

I couldn't disagree more.

I see no evidence to support it has been shared.
edit on 3-2-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by stupid girl

To God, this was despicable character worthy of removing from influencing others to do same.



Whereas in Hitler's case....


Well, feel free to discuss your criticisms with God.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by stupid girl
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Onan did not suffer death because he blew his wad into the dirt. Onan died because he expressly rebelled against something God specifically asked him to do, which was produce offspring with his brother's widow. And at the context of the time, this was a highly important familial duty which would have been a great offense to not uphold.

The context in this particular case is the death of Onan's brother before he was able to have children with his own wife. When a man died and left no children, the next of kin was sometimes obligated to produce children with the widow of their deceased relation.
Any children produced would be considered as descendents of the original deceased husband and would be raised as such. The offspring would then be able to take care of their widowed mother, contribute more to the clan, and eventually raise their own children, continuing the name of that family.

This would have been a basic way of life for Onan, therefore he understood what God was asking him to do but he refused to take part in furthering the honor of his brother's name, the wife, and her future care.

To God, this was despicable character worthy of removing from influencing others to do same.


www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL


I guess you forgot, I don't do YouTube.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am
Self-abasement is a high form of pride.


Which renders ignorant presumption what?
I am not God = Fact
I cannot read God's mind = Fact
Nor do I make preposterous claims of such.
Please explain to me how that is a high form of pride?


If A E were bright enough to become as God said, as Gods in the knowing of good and evil, why would you think you are not up to the task?


God did not tell them that they would become gods. He told them that they would surely die.
And if God wanted human beings to be gods, then He would have made them gods, not human beings.


Atyrange that you think your God makes defective people.


Did you just totally make up a new word? I have no idea what that means.
But I can tell you that no, I do not think that God makes defective people.
As far as I'm concerned, the concept of free will was an all-or-nothing choice. He either made His creation with it, no matter how it all played itself out, or He made His creation without it, because He wanted a fancy goldfish tank.
Regardless, He set the ball rolling and at this point, it is what it is and I have the utmost confidence that all my questions will be answered when I'm ready to understand them.



If you are that low on the intelligence scale, then why would scriptures urge you to be like God?

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Regards
DL


This thread is not about my intelligence or the lack thereof.
The word translated as 'perfect' is teleios, which implies the telescopic consummation of a process. Telescopic as in progressive stages fulfilled in overlapping sequence.
What Jesus is saying is to strive toward working out our flaws while we are here on earth, to continually work upon improving ourselves and our character to be the best we can be.
We are only like God insomuch as reflecting His image. Some reflect it more than others. We are not God because only He is God. We are the image reflected back from the mirror.





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