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Are divorced Christians condemned to hell?

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posted on Feb, 1 2013 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville
reply to post by Garkiniss
 


Let's not forget the 10 commandments are in the OT.


Yes. A reprint from the book of the dead.

Regards
DL




posted on Feb, 1 2013 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Are divorced Christians condemned to hell?

One of God’s main rules is on divorce and his policy is ---- let no man put asunder.
bibleapps.com...

IOW, there are no excuses for divorce and it is a sin to do it.

This view is enforced by Jesus and he chastised Moses for adding terms for divorce.

Divorced Christians, ---- statistics show up to 60% of all Christians, ---- are thus living in sin and I wondered if Christians thought that they were condemned because of their choice to divorce.

If you are a divorced Christian, do you think God’s policy just and if not, why do you remain a condemned Christian?

Regards
DL


Here's some info I think would help:


What may appear as a loophole is a consequence of misinterpretation or mistranslation. The King James Version and others translate the passage into English words that appear to say fornication, unchastity, or adultery are exceptions that allow a divorce.

The constant teaching of the Church has been that a valid sacramental marriage can not be broken, even if one party sins. As Matthew 19:6 says, "Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate." Biblical scholars, such as J. Bonsirven, have pointed out that the Greek word that is pivotal here is "porneia," which means unlawful sexual intercourse. The Gospel does not use the Greek word "moicheia," which is the ordinary Greek word for adultery.

The intent appears to be to distinguish a true marriage from concubinage. What is being said is that if a man and a woman are in fact married, the bond is inseparable. But if they are not married, just "living together," then there is no lawful marriage and there can be a separation or annulment. The wording of the New American Bible for Matthew 19:9 is a translation that gives us this sense.


Found here.

That help?


It strengthens my view but will not effect Christians as they will not believe it or bother doing the research on their WORD as written.

Your view of the morality of their tradition and dogma would perhaps have more of an effect. Care to share?

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 1 2013 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by Garkiniss

Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville
reply to post by Garkiniss
 


Let's not forget the 10 commandments are in the OT.


If people want to limit their lives, that's fine. Personally, I could give a damn about the OT or NT. The golden rule (which is far older than Christianity) seems to work fine as a logical moral code. I'll stick with that.


If you are interested in knowing what is close to our universal thinking of morality and the top 5 tenets that produces more thought than just the one, I found this opened the third eye further than just the one.

blog.ted.com...

Note how our human standards focus on others while God's first commandment is completely self-serving and FMPOV inferior to the human perspective. God does not seem to be as good of an universalist as man.

I do not believe in that genocidal God but since morals are only developed only by those in groups, the fact that God was supposed to be alone for many years sort of indicates that only such an entity would develop a never-ending self-centeredness like that.

That is the only small piece of possible evidence that points to God being real that I will admit to finding.

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 1 2013 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Flavian was during the time of Jesus, Constantine was after. See, in the end, Constantine was just reacting to this new religion sweeping the empire. Why everyone was switching over, I really can't say. But he was a pagan until the end, when he was baptized on his death bed. He pretty much took the remaining piece of paganism and shoved them into Christianity like a wasp lays eggs in a frog. Much as I hate to use that analogy, it does fit. The intention, he said, was to prevent future wars based on religion. He wanted spirituality to unite, not divide.

But he underestimated the power of money. *evil laugh*


I am not sure whether or not he was going to promote Christianity or not.
That last link and the fact that he did not use any Christian imagery on his arch indicates that he was not pushing Christianity as anything but a tool to have himself declared a God as some of the older Emperors had.

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 1 2013 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by Garkiniss

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Correct. It was Rome.



Well technically it's origins can be traced back to at least the Middle Kingdom of Egypt (2040–1650 BCE) back before it was called the Golden Rule and was known as a variation of the "ethic of reciprocity."


I agree.
All the older religions had their variation of the big 10 and they are all close.
I just put a TED link above if you care to see how our morals are better than the bible Gods and I show why.

My comment was poorly presented as I was thinking only of N T.
My bad.

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 1 2013 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Are divorced Christians condemned to hell?

One of God’s main rules is on divorce and his policy is ---- let no man put asunder.
bibleapps.com...

IOW, there are no excuses for divorce and it is a sin to do it.

This view is enforced by Jesus and he chastised Moses for adding terms for divorce.

Divorced Christians, ---- statistics show up to 60% of all Christians, ---- are thus living in sin and I wondered if Christians thought that they were condemned because of their choice to divorce.

If you are a divorced Christian, do you think God’s policy just and if not, why do you remain a condemned Christian?

Regards
DL


Here's some info I think would help:


What may appear as a loophole is a consequence of misinterpretation or mistranslation. The King James Version and others translate the passage into English words that appear to say fornication, unchastity, or adultery are exceptions that allow a divorce.

The constant teaching of the Church has been that a valid sacramental marriage can not be broken, even if one party sins. As Matthew 19:6 says, "Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate." Biblical scholars, such as J. Bonsirven, have pointed out that the Greek word that is pivotal here is "porneia," which means unlawful sexual intercourse. The Gospel does not use the Greek word "moicheia," which is the ordinary Greek word for adultery.

The intent appears to be to distinguish a true marriage from concubinage. What is being said is that if a man and a woman are in fact married, the bond is inseparable. But if they are not married, just "living together," then there is no lawful marriage and there can be a separation or annulment. The wording of the New American Bible for Matthew 19:9 is a translation that gives us this sense.


Found here.

That help?


It strengthens my view but will not effect Christians as they will not believe it or bother doing the research on their WORD as written.

Your view of the morality of their tradition and dogma would perhaps have more of an effect. Care to share?

Regards
DL


My humble understanding is if the marriage is indeed valid then no man can separate the two. However, there are circumstances, such as physical or mental abuse, among other things, that may arise after the wedding, that may allow for a civil (legal) divorce.

Annulments may be granted if it was determined that the marriage was never valid to begin with; yet some folks seem to confuse an annulment with a divorce. They are distinctly different.

So, the answer is, I think, if the marriage is not valid to begin with, and they divorce, then remarry someone else, then they are fornicating (from a religious standpoint). But condemned? Only the good Lord knows.

Of course not everyone on this board is Christian so I'm sure there'll be folks that will disagree.
edit on 2/1/2013 by IsidoreOfSeville because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
[
Let me share my reasoning with you. Yes, I still think it is adultery in the Judeo-Christian perspective if a married couple divorces and goes on to marry other couples for any other reason other than sexual immorality. ]


We all know what Christianity thinks. Mostly garbage.

Your view is what I focus on as there are many Christian ones and your brush is too wide.

If you agree with that view, knowing that Christianity brags that God is love, how do you justify denying people the right to find a loving partner to go through life with by branding them sinners if they do?

Regards
DL


First off, it is not MY view. I am speaking of my understanding of the traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and why Jesus said the stuff he said. My opinion of why Jesus said that those who divorce their others for any reason other than the other party committing adultery, you are still committing adultery if you marry again because you refuse to work on the issues in the first marriage. Basically, a marriage doesn't break unless a person cheats and the person that was cheated on decides to have a divorce. .

My personal opinion is that people forgot how to work things out. I think sex and marriage have been losing their value and de-romanticized. My opinion is that marriage and sex should be hand in hand because sex and marriage are two epic commitments that only responsible adults that truly love each other should partake in. This being said, I am huge supporter of monogamy, whether the relationship consists of different or same genders. Anytime I see a person cheat on their other, my heart breaks. Although I wish the best for the cheater, I further sympathize for the person cheated on.

Do I think people are sinners if they divorce a person for a reason other than adultery?

We are all sinners, past and present. Just because we are sinners doesn't mean it is a bad thing... We have room for improvement and growth...
edit on 2-2-2013 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 03:10 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


You know...people would have religion "crammed" down their throats a lot less frequently if they didn't ask for it. What purpose does it serve to chastise anyone for practicing (or not practicing) whatever religion they choose (or don't choose) to practice? My God...it's people that start threads like this that bother me. Not the "bible thumpers"....



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 03:14 AM
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God forgives when we confess and repent. There isn't much else to say about that.


Except for the part where divorce is a sin to begin with.

Divorce often happens when couples shouldn't be together. I would think God understands that.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 03:18 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

God forgives when we confess and repent. There isn't much else to say about that.


Except for the part where divorce is a sin to begin with.

Divorce often happens when couples shouldn't be together. I would think God understands that.



What are you trying to imply? All sins are sins to begin with...



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 03:33 AM
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reply to post by LennayTheUndead
 


I am implying it's not a sin (moral offense) to begin with because I am implying the Bible from which that rule came from was a persons thought and not God's thought. I am implying an omniscient and omnibenevolent God wouldn't view it as a sin to begin with. Surely that kind of God would not have such a simplistic black and white stance and empathetically understand the justification for divorce.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 03:40 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 



I just put a TED link above if you care to see how our morals are better than the bible Gods

Another Ted talk related to morality..




posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 03:47 AM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
" If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

1 John 1:9


I see.

So you, if you are divorced, can knowingly live in sin for years and years and on your death bed ask for forgiveness ---- even as you know you do not repent, or you would have stopped your ways years in the past, ---- and God will forgive you.

How droll.
Again, you do my work of discrediting Christianity for me.

Regards
DL


You can have forgiveness and get a needed vacation. But someday you still will have to fix the mess you created if there is any left. To be of god (the ONE the bible hints of) you have to take responsibility. Even Jesus said that himself. But judging yourself to hard for what you have done is only foolish since it is better to put your effort on fixing it than wasting time with destructive thoughts of not being good enought.

But then what the bible considers sin and what god does is probably very different because god is not a small minded one brain person but has all the information stored in all brains and can understand the interactions between different people better than any human with one brain can. A human normally do not even have control and knowledge of his unconscious. Try not to judge to hard until you have the whole picture (one of my biggest issues) and do not worry to much. Sooner or later we all get it on one level or another. finding your way home is just a matter of time.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by LennayTheUndead
 


I am implying it's not a sin (moral offense) to begin with because I am implying the Bible from which that rule came from was a persons thought and not God's thought. I am implying an omniscient and omnibenevolent God wouldn't view it as a sin to begin with. Surely that kind of God would not have such a simplistic black and white stance and empathetically understand the justification for divorce.



Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.

Even the bible agrees with you from my view of thinking. If god thru out the humans from paradise because they ate from the fruit that gave the idea of (duality) simplistic black and white understanding then would not god throw itself out if it itself ate from the fruit of small minded thinking/stupidity.

It is a symbolic text but it does tell a lot for the people who really think and try to understand what they are reading. The bible is a problem book that is used to test the soul from my point of view. There are better instructional books than the bible that gives you understanding without the internal conflict that will happen to am evolving soul who read that books to soon.
edit on 2-2-2013 by LittleByLittle because: Spellchecking



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
You are forgiven as long as you believe in Jesus and repent for your sins. At least, that's how I've always understood it.


Is that the mind/ego believing in Jesus or the heart knowing Jesus message and accepting it?

From my point of view: You do not knock at the door with your mind. You knock with what you are inside.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 04:16 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



your forgetting the bible was written by men, and never has produced a single shred of evidence to prove otherwise. there are no faxes from heaven. a God would not need to write anything down.


Matthew 18:19 "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 18:20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."


step 1) go gather your faithful friend or two.
step 2) pray. for a healing of someone in need of a certified incurable illness.
step 3) prove to the world this story is real.

many truly faithful people over the last couple of thousand years have tried.
nothing has happened yet.
end of story.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by Garkiniss

Originally posted by Greatest I am

So you see fault in God's word do you?



No, I see fault in man's word. God didn't author the bible.


Depends on if you believe in god being separated from man or not? If you do not believe in god being separated and god is in control then what is, is meant to be. In that way of thinking god created all religious texts and are using all of them to guide people home.

Just because god authored the bible do not make it 100% true. God might have other reasons for not telling the whole truth in one source. A person playing around with synchronicity will hear it from all sources around the world. Humanity have always been a work in progress.

Matthew 7
Prayer and the Golden Rule

7“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.8“For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.9“Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?10“Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?11“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 




“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”


I agree but most people who are married are not even close to being one flesh. That kinda connection between two people seem to be a rare thing. What if gods purpose is to have two people temporary together to grow and the split up to find their true one flesh that they can have the true connection with but was to immature before to be able to have?

Humans keep simplyfying what is right and wrong without having walked in the persons shoe and knowing what is really going on.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 08:12 AM
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I think sometimes divorce gets you out of hell.
Just sayin'



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am
Are divorced Christians condemned to hell?

One of God’s main rules is on divorce and his policy is ---- let no man put asunder.
bibleapps.com...

IOW, there are no excuses for divorce and it is a sin to do it.

This view is enforced by Jesus and he chastised Moses for adding terms for divorce.

Divorced Christians, ---- statistics show up to 60% of all Christians, ---- are thus living in sin and I wondered if Christians thought that they were condemned because of their choice to divorce.

If you are a divorced Christian, do you think God’s policy just and if not, why do you remain a condemned Christian?

Regards
DL


I still have not figured out whether you truly enjoy goading people of faith with your threads, or if you just enjoy trying to cross-examine Christian doctrine against itself in pointless circular arguments?

And why I choose to torture myself by even participating in them leaves me at an even bigger loss. I guess it's sorta like a train wreck-- you know there's going to be obscene wreckage but the fascination of all the sheer possibilities of how that carnage could play itself out completely overwhelms any dignity and reason.

The Bible gives two grounds for divorce, 1) adultery; 2) abandonment. Having said that, I certainly don't claim to know the mind of God, but I can learn of His nature and of my perception thus far, I would think it entirely reasonable to speculate that He would not condone nor expect someone to stay in a situation wherein they live under a perpetual threat of harm.

Regardless, the answer to your question is 'No', divorced Christians are not damned to hell simply for the sake of being a divorcee.
My mother is currently going through divorce number 5. She makes ignorant, selfish choices. She has lived a life of strife and turmoil. I can give her prudent counsel until I'm blue in the face, but some people only learn through their own experience-- whether for better, or worse-- and we all have our own battles to fight so judging someone for the way they fight that battle is idiotic and naive.
Despite all that, my mother truly loves God and wants to have happiness in her life, she just keeps making stupid decisions. And no matter how far down in the muddy pit she digs herself, she always comes to that moment of reckoning at which point only God can pluck her ignorant ass up out of there, wash her off and continue to patiently watch over her as she continues her fumbling journey towards eternity.

We are not perfect, nor are we even capable of such. God has not invested Himself in this creation simply to set it up for failure. He is acutely aware of our flaws, faults, shortcomings and unsavory tendencies.
Every single one of us will continue to fall prey to our inherently selfish nature one way or another until the day we die. We are all running this race and we will all cross over the finish line, therefore it is how we run it that determines our true character at the end.
edit on 2-2-2013 by stupid girl because: (no reason given)





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