Are divorced Christians condemned to hell?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

That would be worse than Hell.

What would you prefer?

Pain, or the possibility of redemption?

Figure what out exactly? That Jesus is Lord like the thief on the cross did?

I would say.. the two commandments...

reply to post by Akragon


We already have the assurance of redemption here and now in Christ. And the thief didn't follow either of Jesus' two commandments, he only acknowledged His Lordship and requested that he be saved.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

We already have the assurance of redemption here and now in Christ. And the thief didn't follow either of Jesus' two commandments, he only acknowledged His Lordship and requested that he be saved.

Why not save ourselves? We know what we must do to make recompense for our wrongs. Our failure to do it here on Earth does not mean we can cover ourselves by getting a golden ticket on the Jesus Express. Jesus is not necessary for us to make amends.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

We already have the assurance of redemption here and now in Christ. And the thief didn't follow either of Jesus' two commandments, he only acknowledged His Lordship and requested that he be saved.

Why not save ourselves? We know what we must do to make recompense for our wrongs. Our failure to do it here on Earth does not mean we can cover ourselves by getting a golden ticket on the Jesus Express. Jesus is not necessary for us to make amends.

If we could save ourselves Jesus could have stayed in Heaven. He came to save that which was incapable of saving itself. But, if you want to try that and earn eternal life all by your lonesome Jesus also gave the litmus test for that route.

You must be perfect.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

If we could save ourselves Jesus could have stayed in Heaven. He came to save that which was incapable of saving itself. But, if you want to try that and earn eternal life all by your lonesome Jesus also gave the litmus test for that route.

You must be perfect.

Perfection is not synonymous with salvation. Perhaps the problem lies in believing we require perfection in order to find salvation. Perhaps if we were to accept our flaws instead of condemning them, we could find peace. It's foolish to condemn our very nature when we could learn so much from it. Without a full range of experience, we cannot achieve a full range of understanding and comprehension. And understanding is the first step to peace.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I don't hate either, I would prefer that all men repent. But I also know most won't. Jesus also said that most won't. There's a difference between what I wish would happen and what I know will happen.

Same applies whenever I decide to buy a Powerball ticket.

So much for your faith in a God who cannot get things right.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God's will says different but those of so little faith do not believe it and would rathe4r paint their God a loser.

Enjoy the thought of most of those you know burning in hell.

What a game for your God to play!
Create a place for eternal bliss as well as a place for eternal suffering or death.
Then create beings whom he loves dearly and watches over.
And in the end, decide which to consider "trash" and "throw away" into the place for eternal suffering or death and which to cling to and love in the place for eternal bliss.
Even man, with all his faults, is greater and more responsible.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
reply to post by 1PLA1

 

It's not a bet. It's a done deal. Jesus wins. We win. Satan loses.

Stay tuned. I'm posting a major thread starter in the next few days on this sub-forum.

edit on 11-3-2013 by Lazarus Short because: lad-de-dah

How would Jesus win by being around a great number of people for eternity that want absolutely nothing to do with Him and reject Him???

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

L S can probably quote you a dozen more that says you who has such little faith in God are wrong.
But you don't care as you love to hate the dreaded others too much and want to see them burn.

L S found the loving part and not the hating part of God so you might give a decent Christian a listen to.

Regards
DL

Actually, I have at least 77 Biblical texts to support my contention that God saves ALL. If not, how is He ever going to be All in all???

Exactly.
I did not know there were that many verses but it is a given that if everything emanated from God in the first place, he would not lose any of his initial essence. Sometimes logic can be applied to God. Not muchh to the bible but much to God.

Good to meet a Christian who can think and not just follow blindly.
I know you are one of many but most that come to these places are too literal or fundamental for clear logical thought and as our friend here, they end with a piss poor God.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


So the Bible verses that proclaim salvation only for those who surrender their soul, those verses are lies?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

So the Bible verses that proclaim salvation only for those who surrender their soul, those verses are lies?

edit on 13-3-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Yes. The bible is myth with a message.

Man was created, if I can use that word, to stand, not to kneel.

Any God would want men standing and ready to defend. Not grovelling and waiting for God to defend himself.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


And all this time, I thought you were a hardcore Christian...

Homo Sapiens is meant to stand, not kneel. That is correct. There are times when kneeling is healthy, but we must stand if we intend to master this world. And make no mistake, we are the most viable candidates for world mastery. We are the guardians, and we must act like it. No one and nothing is more capable than us on this Earth.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

And all this time, I thought you were a hardcore Christian...

Homo Sapiens is meant to stand, not kneel. That is correct. There are times when kneeling is healthy, but we must stand if we intend to master this world. And make no mistake, we are the most viable candidates for world mastery. We are the guardians, and we must act like it. No one and nothing is more capable than us on this Earth.

+ 1

Lend me your ear.
I have been remiss in telling you of my beliefs.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

I don't worship hell, I'm not even concerned with it. But I am passionate about believing Christ said what He meant. And btw, the second death is the lake of fire. Annihilationism would make the statement that a person's torment would never cease be a lie.

So what about those verses? What is condemnation? You're saying that all will be saved, that's inconsistent with some being saved and others being condemned.

edit on 13-3-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

The Lake of Fire - yes, the 2nd death is in it, but it can be only temporal, as death and the grave are tossed in too. Death burned up! The grave burned up! After that, NO ONE CAN BE DEAD ANYMORE. It can not be more plain.

Annihilationism - I don't subscribe to it.

Those verses - yes, some are condemned, but again, it must be a temporal thing, otherwise God could never be All in all. Think it through. The nature of the condemnation is not even spelled out, the Damnationists simply ASSUME it's eternal hellfire. Man's justice is on that level, but God's justice is to die for us. After an Act like that, showing infinite Love, He is then going to toss most of humanity in the fire? I think and believe not.

reply to post by Greatest I am


You are truly agnostic, then.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


Only the body dies. The spirit and soul of an individual never perish. They are either in the presence of God or not.

And God doesn't "toss" anyone there. People are already bound for there as a condition of sin. As Jesus and Paul said people stand condemned already, God just offers a free pass out to anyone who asks.

But He will not force someone against their will.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Only the body dies. The spirit and soul of an individual never perish. They are either in the presence of God or not.

And God doesn't "toss" anyone there. People are already bound for there as a condition of sin. As Jesus and Paul said people stand condemned already, God just offers a free pass out to anyone who asks.

But He will not force someone against their will.

edit on 13-3-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

No, only the Spirit, which comes from God, survives. It returns to God who gave it. The body returns to the earth, and the soul, the living person, is no more. If you wish to subscribe to the pagan Greek concept of the immortal soul, that is your business, but your Bible says different.

God's own Law of the Jubilee says that we are not "bound for there," but are freed at some point in time, no matter our state of sin/debt/bondage. It's not up to "anyone who asks," but up to the eternal plan of God.

No, God will not force anyone, but once we have been raised to immortality, all will quickly choose the right path. I subscriber to irresistible Grace - how about you?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

We already have the assurance of redemption here and now in Christ. And the thief didn't follow either of Jesus' two commandments, he only acknowledged His Lordship and requested that he be saved.

No he didn't...

He asked Jesus to remember him... He did not repent or ask for forgiveness... nor did he ask to be saved.

A few major issues here...

1. Matthew says the thieves mocked him...

43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.

While only luke tells the story of the so called "Penitent thief"...

2. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

While he did recognise he was guilty he asked no forgiveness or to be saved... He simply said "remember me"

Which brings up my previous debate with you... murderers, thieves, and rapists still get a "free pass" as long as they repent... which I disagree with 100%

3. Even if Jesus said you will join me in paradise to the thief.... that does not mean he will not be coming back to learn...

And if you deny that possibility, then you also deny that "all things are possible with God"

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

You are truly agnostic, then.

No by the dictionary definition.

Regards
DL

I've never been called satan before. Lovely!

Gnosticism is a false doctrine which is not sustained by the Bible and puts flawed humans higher than God. You call me satan because I disagree with your theology? People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Look in the mirror; a great horror is standing behind you.

Originally posted by 1PLA1
I've never been called satan before. Lovely!

I went back and reviewed our exchanges. I don't think it was I who called you "satan." If you think it was me, I apologize. I've been accused of preaching the doctrines of devils here, myself, so I want to be square with you.

Originally posted by 1PLA1
I've never been called satan before. Lovely!

Gnosticism is a false doctrine which is not sustained by the Bible and puts flawed humans higher than God. You call me satan because I disagree with your theology? People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Look in the mirror; a great horror is standing behind you.

How sad that Christians reject the good news that Jesus gave.

Hosea 1:10 Ye are the sons of the living God.

This makes them Gods W I P. Works in progress.

Unfortunately, most refuse to climb Jacob’s ladder as we all must to find our God within.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Christians refuse to accept and have rejected their predestined fate and be brethren to Jesus and God.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Christian tradition and dogma has taught Christians to reject Jesus. How sad for them.

Regards
DL