ATF seizes a shipment of 30 'dangerous' weapons.

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posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by NavyDoc
No you won't. The airsoft lower does not have the cutouts for the bolt, hammer, spring, trigger mechanism. The upper does not have a chamber or a barrel for accepting the cartrige. What you are suggesting is that you could get all of the other parts, mill the receiver out, and then get an AR--a task that would be jsut as easy as getting a square metal billet and then milling it into a receiver.


The airsoft lower does have a trigger group, hammer and everything.

Here is a pic of a real (top) and airsof (bottom) lower.

at this website

www.armyparatrooper.org...

as the person on the website stated……..

Total conversion necessary to make an unregistered machine gun: Dremel off a tab that obstructs use of real uppers. Replace hammer, bolt hold open, and drop in an upper with suitable BCG. All of which are trivial parts to obtain once you have the full auto trigger group and a receiver to house them. This is literally minutes worth of work for a competent gunsmith or armorer.


If the airsoft lowers were semi auto, I would say that the ATF would have ignored the situation and pretended it didn’t exist, but the trigger group in these airsoft lowers is “full auto”. If you put a normal AR 15 upper on them, you would have a rifle capable of fully automatic fire.
edit on 2-2-2013 by Mr Tranny because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by steel49
reply to post by Daedalus
 


You forgot what color to paint " pew-pew" in. you tryin to blow off someone's hand? shesh!


But on a serious note, if it is so easy to do, why haven't we seen a wave of these frankienguns hitting the streets already?
edit on 2-2-2013 by steel49 because: question added.


exactly...it's just not possible...



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


So they say the high-end airsoft guns can be made to fire real bullets.... Challenge accepted.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 03:33 PM
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Look how well the same tactics worked in the War on Tobacco.

CANDY SHAPED LIKE CIGARETTES=BAD!

Most young people I know smoke and are, frankly, anti-social (partly) because of it.

It's OT, but a good analogy and a template.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 05:00 PM
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Alright then I will just take the trigger group from a full auto air soft gun and switch it over my ar and have a full auto AR!!!!!


LOL seriously.
edit on 2-2-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
Alright then I will just take the trigger group from a full auto air soft gun and switch it over my ar and have a full auto AR!!!!!


LOL seriously.


Of course not! The trigger group from a full auto, and a semi auto are not interchangeable. There isn’t even a hole for the sear to mount in the semi auto ar15. And you have to have a full auto BCG.

The lower has to be milled for a full auto trigger group, and the airsoft lowers are.
edit on 2-2-2013 by Mr Tranny because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


Anyone dumb enough to use air soft "guns" to make a "machine gun" truly has earned and deserves the darwin award.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


Thank you for providing that information
Knowing the attention to detail in some of these airsofts I am not at all surprised. I am eagerly awaiting OPs response...



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


Anyone dumb enough to use air soft "guns" to make a "machine gun" truly has earned and deserves the darwin award.


Yes, but that does not mean that it can’t be done.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


That is like saying a pipe bomb can be built, a nuke can be built, but they are not weapons until manufactured and even so could not be done without extensive modifications that are all illegal already.

Guess we can punish people for things they might do instead of obeying the letter of the law and be charged with a crime, tried in a court with a jury of their peers.
edit on 2-2-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 06:13 PM
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It's a question of metallurgy. The metal used in airsoft guns could NEVER withstand actual rifle ammunition. That ATF agent is a moron. That's all there is to it.

If you don't believe me, try to convert an airsoft gun to a real gun, when it blows up in your face you'll know how stupid that assumption was.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Yes, all that is true, but that still doesn’t mean that you can’t use an airsoft lower on a full auto AR.

Any piece of metal big enough, can be turned into a lower. The question is how much work is required to do it.

There is a reason the ATF has the 80% specification for a lower receiver. Any object that is over 80% of the way to being complete lower is classified as a firearm. A 90% receiver still has to have some milling done on it, but it is a firearm and will have a serial number on it.

A solid block of metal would be a 0% lower receiver.

Any airsoft AR lower that had a solid unmilled trigger group area, or a trigger group area milled totally different from a normal AR, could be turned into a fully working lower, but it would have to have the same, or more milling done on it as an 80% lower. So it is less than 80% and is not classified as a firearm.

The airsoft lowers in question are past the 80% mark and are classified as firearms because of that. They are more like an over 95% complete lower receiver.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by cosmicexplorer
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I didnt watch the video...but it is true that parts of these guns can be converted and used as real weapons...its how a lot of felons have been getting away with being able to possess a firearm...unless they changed the law....as for the quality of the weapon after converted i dont think they are very good.

I support guns.....but just giving my two cents off your statements...


That is completely false...

felons get firearms from the black market.

Airsoft replicas CANNOT be modified to fire real steel ammo...IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.


Im saying taking parts only from an airsoft gun to use in a real gun. Yes you can. It may not last long but you could use the parts....even if they arent perfectly to spec you could modify them. I don't see what the benefit would be by using crappy plastic and cheap metal but may be a cheap fix or help avoiding registering the lower. And felons have been pretty resourceful on getting weapons of any kind. I agree with you that most are gotten from the black market, but to think they haven't been creative in navigating the law is very naive.

Im not saying take an airsoft gun...toss in a couple real parts and bam you got a weapon!

Oh I didn't clarify either...im refering to parts of the lower receiver only...I will try to consult with a few friends and learn the actual parts they believe can be used...as ive never done this myself...if I remember right its something with the lower receiver and t would still need some sort of modification from someone who knew a decent amount. But hey if helps you avoid registering it....why not...even if it only fired a couple rounds before jamming or breaking.
edit on 2-2-2013 by cosmicexplorer because: (no reason given)
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edit on 2-2-2013 by cosmicexplorer because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by dave_welch
It's a question of metallurgy. The metal used in airsoft guns could NEVER withstand actual rifle ammunition. That ATF agent is a moron. That's all there is to it.


Read this post and follow the link posted there. It is all about the lower receiver.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by dave_welch
 


The lower does not have to “withstand actual rifle ammunition” that is the job of the barrel, and the BCG. The only job the lower has to fulfill is a base for the other parts, and fire control. They are made out of the same aluminum as a real AR. The only difference is they are cast, instead of milled. That makes them a bit weaker, but the over design of the mounting system means that failure of a substandard lower is not likely unless it literally has casting cracks in it..



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 07:02 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
 


I have a DPMS Airsoft. Same weight and feel of a AR. It's made of metal for the most part. The thing is, the lower is a actual AR lower. Give me some parts and I drill one hole in it and I have a actual AR15.



No you won't. The airsoft lower does not have the cutouts for the bolt, hammer, spring, trigger mechanism. The upper does not have a chamber or a barrel for accepting the cartrige. What you are suggesting is that you could get all of the other parts, mill the receiver out, and then get an AR--a task that would be jsut as easy as getting a square metal billet and then milling it into a receiver.


It is a actual DPMS lower, just not totally machined. As I also wrote earlier DPMS advises not to do this as this lower does does not pass QC. But it is possible. Dangerous but possible.

I've built plenty of AR platforms, and I would never attempt this even for grins and giggles.



posted on Feb, 2 2013 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by cosmicexplorer
Im saying taking parts only from an airsoft gun to use in a real gun. Yes you can. It may not last long but you could use the parts....even if they arent perfectly to spec you could modify them. I don't see what the benefit would be by using crappy plastic and cheap metal but may be a cheap fix or help avoiding registering the lower. And felons have been pretty resourceful on getting weapons of any kind. I agree with you that most are gotten from the black market, but to think they haven't been creative in navigating the law is very naive.

Im not saying take an airsoft gun...toss in a couple real parts and bam you got a weapon!

Oh I didn't clarify either...im refering to parts of the lower receiver only...I will try to consult with a few friends and learn the actual parts they believe can be used...as ive never done this myself...if I remember right its something with the lower receiver and t would still need some sort of modification from someone who knew a decent amount. But hey if helps you avoid registering it....why not...even if it only fired a couple rounds before jamming or breaking.
edit on 2-2-2013 by cosmicexplorer because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-2-2013 by cosmicexplorer because: i type like an elephant in heat
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edit on 2-2-2013 by cosmicexplorer because: (no reason given)


If it were possible, it would be done, and it would be done all the time.

The ATF seizing this single shipment happened over two years ago, since that happened, and this idiotic assertion was made, i have not seen a SINGLE report of it having ever been done.

i own a top of the line Gas-Blowback Airsoft M4...and i am familiar with the internals of a REAL M4...i can tell you, with very comfortable level of certainty that it is not possible to build an AR-15 or M4 on an airsoft GBB lower...



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus
If it were possible, it would be done, and it would be done all the time.

The ATF seizing this single shipment happened over two years ago, since that happened, and this idiotic assertion was made, i have not seen a SINGLE report of it having ever been done.

i own a top of the line Gas-Blowback Airsoft M4...and i am familiar with the internals of a REAL M4...i can tell you, with very comfortable level of certainty that it is not possible to build an AR-15 or M4 on an airsoft GBB lower...


Who in the heck would be stupid enough to post evidence of completing such modification?

Think about it. You are wanting someone to show evidence that they have committed a felony before you will admit something can be done.

Anyone who did that would be asking for an ATF visit the next day.



posted on Feb, 3 2013 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Tranny

Originally posted by Daedalus
If it were possible, it would be done, and it would be done all the time.

The ATF seizing this single shipment happened over two years ago, since that happened, and this idiotic assertion was made, i have not seen a SINGLE report of it having ever been done.

i own a top of the line Gas-Blowback Airsoft M4...and i am familiar with the internals of a REAL M4...i can tell you, with very comfortable level of certainty that it is not possible to build an AR-15 or M4 on an airsoft GBB lower...


Who in the heck would be stupid enough to post evidence of completing such modification?

Think about it. You are wanting someone to show evidence that they have committed a felony before you will admit something can be done.

Anyone who did that would be asking for an ATF visit the next day.


where did i ask for evidence? show me exactly where i said "show me proof"

you can't, because i didn't.

i said i have not seen a report in the over 2 years since this story happened...you would think if it was so easy, it would be done all the time, and the media would jump all over it....think of how they could sensationalize THAT "millions of kids nationwide own dangerous firearms"....a few states have been trying to criminalize airsoft for a long time, but cant seem to do it, because airsoft replicas are not classified as firearms by the ATF, and cannot be made to fire actual bullets.

if people were able to build real guns out of airsoft replicas, you'd think there would be at least ONE seized by federal, local, or state authorities....and as soon as that happened, there would be news reports....

have you seen one? because i sure as hell haven't
edit on 3-2-2013 by Daedalus because: (no reason given)





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