ATF seizes a shipment of 30 'dangerous' weapons., page 1

Well, the boys at the ATF are at it again and showing their usual level of professional competence. To say this another way, if there comes a time where whole agencies are up for the chopping block for being disbanded? My vote goes to this one as #1. Even the IRS takes a second seat to this level of intellectual horsepower.



These are not firearms. They are "Air Soft" guns. They fire small white plastic pellets and are widely used in "war games" similar to what Paint Ball is without the mess and more reliable to use for the games. This is a nation-wide sport and involves large numbers of adults. Some actually go to full complexes built for them and spend multiple days out "in the field", playing out long scenarios.

It's not everyone's cup of Tea, to be sure, but it's an important sport to plenty. Now this genius at ATF claims ....actually, to listen to the end of the news report, he represents an agency which insists, they've tested these and proven they CAN be converted to fire live ammunition and become "military grade" weapons.

I don't know whether to laugh at that or just cry at the lack of intelligence on display by those placed in positions of authority. These aren't quite toys in the sense they can hurt and of course, can be mistaken for the real thing if someone is ignorant enough to carry them outside of a game in a way to suggest it's real. It's also a very safe bet a police officer would assume they are real. However, it would require someone with the lack of awareness and consequence to actually POINT one of these pellet guns at a law enforcement officer.

Regardless of the status of the little orange barrel add-on they insist these didn't have to justify their actions to seize the whole lot of them? It's their insistence that they could be converted to live ammunition that just leaves me numb with shock. The store owner is 100% right. IF the live round could be jammed into the chamber and IF the firing mechanism could dent the primer enough to fire it, it would blow the gun to pieces and probably take parts of the person's hand with it.

(A)bsolute (T)otal (F)ools

reply to post by YouAreLiedTo

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Actually some of them can be.

Just like limiting ammo is not realistic because people can also case their own ammo.

Likewise people can make their own gun parts.

Originally posted by txinfidel
reply to post by YouAreLiedTo

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Actually some of them can be.

Just like limiting ammo is not realistic because people can also case their own ammo.

Likewise people can make their own gun parts.

Not making an argument against what you are saying but this line of reasoning from the ATF is in fact, stupidity at its finest; though they have used this line in other areas so it is assumed (and I called it a bit back when the presidential memos started).

Use the bureaucracy to effectively control firearms (or in this case, items that could (but most likely never will be by the larger percentage of users) converted into something dangerous. Sudafed? Fertilizer? I mean, I can make a deadly slingshot out of surgical tubing and my wife's skills in sewing....it could be made into a weapon....

Originally posted by txinfidel
reply to post by YouAreLiedTo

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Actually some of them can be.

Just like limiting ammo is not realistic because people can also case their own ammo.

Likewise people can make their own gun parts.

If you are making your own gun parts...

Then what the hell do you need the air-soft toy for? Inspiration?

Anything to justify your argument though, right?

reply to post by txinfidel

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Yeah, people can make their own gun parts, if they have a handy little machine shop and the skill and knowledge to do so. But in reality how many people possess that skill, knowledge and the equipment to do so?

Metal Blank firing handguns have been converted before, but not plastic ball bearing firing replicas. It just won't work!

reply to post by ownbestenemy

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Im not arguing on behalf of the ATF.

In fact I think the whole airsoft thing is genius. Society could really actually benefit from this some day soon.

reply to post by YouAreLiedTo

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Air soft is ok for training. But cant compensate for the real thing.

Actually what I was getting at is that if you went the airsoft route, it probably is a lot cheaper to rebuild, then buying the actual weapon. Alot of the parts are the same.

But for states with strict gun control. In a pinch, the airsoft might be worth a little research and effort.

reply to post by groingrinder

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No, I am for real. There are airsoft models of the AK that use actual AK parts. The only difference is the parts on the inside. If I am not mistaken they retail for about $150 and they are not made of plastic.

Originally posted by txinfidel
reply to post by YouAreLiedTo

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Air soft is ok for training. But cant compensate for the real thing.

Actually what I was getting at is that if you went the airsoft route, it probably is a lot cheaper to rebuild, then buying the actual weapon. Alot of the parts are the same.

But for states with strict gun control. In a pinch, the airsoft might be worth a little research and effort.

No, none of the parts are the same. None.

They might look the same...

But that is like me telling you that it is possible to convert a piñata into a donkey... You know... Just swap he internals.

reply to post by YouAreLiedTo

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Actually yes....yes they are.

And its 100% legal too...

This is just silly to suggest these could ever function with live ammunition. The outter appearance and stock doesn't make a firearm. The trigger group doesn't make a firearm. (IF some are actually the same..which doesn't make much sense given the difference in operation)

Having the strength by manufacture specifically for firing live ammunition is what makes a firearm function and even then, accidents happen just often enough with standard factory ammunition to remind everyone that isn't always enough.

The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) and American National Standards Institute (ANSI) establish the numbers and standards for ammunition and chamber pressures for manufacture. This chart is based on their numbers:

(Original Source)
(SAAMI Specs)

These numbers are familiar to anyone who reloads ammunition, or they'd better be anyway. I wouldn't want someone shooting next to me with reloads if they weren't.

55,000 Pounds per Square Inch of pressure at firing would blow that little toy he's holding in the video to small deadly pieces. I'd guess it'd be far more dangerous from that within a few feet than from the bullet that would never get barrel pressure to go anywhere on even that one shot. If someone could somehow swap the pellet barrel for a real one, they'd then require the bolt and receiver group which could handle the recoil. Without the gas system integral to an AR-/M-4 platform, that recoil is no small thing.

The whole idea is just patently absurd and shows they're either lying freely and with no shame or actually that ignorant and believe their own propaganda. These days? I'm not entirely sure which?

reply to post by txinfidel

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Did you watch that joke video where the kid rips apart the toy gun, lines it with chapstick then shows a real one?

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