Is america a nation of terrified people ????

One of the things I find funny about all of this is that americans generally don't know the top stories and issues in Europe and- well, anywhere else really. Not due to ignorance but because we simply could not give a crap. Americans generally don't join foreign boards and tell others how they should do things in their country- because for the most part, we don't care. And before anyone says anything like this is not an "American site" it is, sure people from all over join but during the elections the candidates were displayed

That does not happen for any other country. And we talk about American subjects for the most part. Sure some issues come up about other countries but for the most part, its about America.
Its not really and issue of "Is america a nation of terrified people ????" its more liek "Is the rest of the world obsessed with America?" or "why do so many non-americans talk like American hipsters?"

reply to post by bellagirl

Just my answer...

.are americans living in a constant state of fear that leads them to keep and carry guns ???

Not any more than I keep a hammer and nails around in case the roof caves in.

Probably never happen and I don't worry about it.

Most American gun owners are not "afraid" the way you put it. You are witnessing a media campaign that portrays that about us. You of course don't hear from the silent majority who give a rats ass what the media portrays us as.

Originally posted by bellagirl

Originally posted by eleven44
reply to post by bellagirl

 

I'm American. I'm 24. I remember watching 9/11 live on tv in my 8th grade class. And I do NOT live in fear.

I have a very large group/family of friends as well. None of them live in fear either.

With that said, this WORLD as a whole is programed to live in fear. Not necessarily 'fear for life' at all times, but most people have been programmed to live/think in fear. We have to change that to a love based program.

Yes, the Government definitely does try to keep people in fear.
Yes, I'm sure there are American's who do live in fear.

I am also willing to put all of my money on the fact that there are some Australians living in fear. I bet you could find people in every country who lives in fear. It's a human, not American, quality.

The Gun Debate is NOT about daily personal protection from 'bad guys' (although that is a big point, and is definitely a fair point to be made.)

The main reason that we believe in the 2nd amendment is to protect ourselves from our GOVERNMENT.
You are on ATS, therefore I am sure you know just how tyrannical the US Government is.
Why would we willingly hand over our guns to a government that is as monstrous and corrupt as our government is? Why would ANYONE give their guns over to ANY government? Has history not taught us anything? Sure, we may not 'need' them today, tomorrow or anytime this year. But can you give me a 100% guarantee that our Government, at some point in the future, will not come down on We The People, just as Hitler and his people did during the Holocaust? No. Unfortunately, no one can guarantee that.

edit on 31-1-2013 by eleven44 because: (no reason given)

now this is the part i dont understand. most quote the 2nd amendment about protection from government yet in the same breath say how tyrannical the government is. and im not being a smart ass...i just dont understand.

And then those same gun loving, 2nd amendment preachers that say the guns are to protect them from the government actually vote! That is what confuses me. Both parties of the US government are not to be trusted but people keep voting them in.

Originally posted by bellagirl

for the last few months it has seemed that here on ATS and other places it has been a fight between the US and the rest of the world. i will be honest...we just dont get the whole gun/violence thing. here in australia i can go to the local pub and walk home at 2am laughing and chatting all the way home with friends without the fear of someone shooting me because they think im about to do a home invasion..steal their car...rob their house etc.

We are cautious....you wouldnt walk around on your own in the early hours of the morning on your own without being aware of where you are and who is around you. were not stupid. yes we have security doors on our front doors to stop breakins if your not home or that you can lock and leave the solid door open while letting the breeze come through. but we dont live with that constant fear of getting a home invasion..robbed..raped..assaulted..we dont keep guns so we can rise up against our government.

so in conclusion.....are Americans living in a constant state of fear that leads them to keep and carry guns ???

Law abiding citizens will follow the law but criminals will still own guns, you'll be doing them a favor by knowing anyone they mug won't be armed.

Even in Australia after the gun confiscation petty crimes, burglaries and robberies went up.

I wonder if the objectivity people are capable of on this subject is not influenced by the topic being associated with the gun ownership question. Just putting weapons aside... read through the responses and see the repeated referalls to "socialists", the masses, crowd and herd mentality, as the threatening or opposing element to worry about! Even "the government" is refered to as this separate entity, like a big mass of anonymous bodies... it is a very distinct characteristic of American thought to speak and think this way!

"I" am not part of "the masses".... "I" am not part of "the government". The individual opposes plurality. It is never a component of that whole to the typical american mind. (yes, that is a generality- which means it refers to a majority, not "all").

I think that is relevant.

reply to post by Bluesma


oh this is going to be good, please elaborate. Its American to refer to the "government" as "the government"?

"I" am not part of "the masses".... "I" am not part of "the government". The individual opposes plurality. It is never a component of that whole to the typical american mind.

I think you have no idea what you are talking about, that usually never occurs to a European mind.

reply to Superhans
I am not sure what you mean -what never occurs to the european mind?

Yes, it is typically american to refer to the government as an entity that is separate from self or the people. It is common in many countries to hear specific members of the government or a particular party refered to in criticism, but not the government as one solid entity.

As an american, I have reflected a lot upon my tendancy to refer to any collective force in a negative light (socialism, collectivism, which threatens individual being) and one day it hit me-

If I was going to form a nation of my own, and wanted to be the power of it, and make sure the members never form a majority mass that overthrows me, I would make sure, from the start, to install as national values, individualism.
I would have people teach their offspring that being part of any collective group, club, social movement, is dangerous and evil. That way, they would forever remain separated and unable to oppose me.

I think that would be a very efficient tactic! Even if some started to revolt against those values, enough of them would beat those down as evil! The masses under me would be a self-destructive, submissive element forever!

editted to add- oh, okay, I get it, you weren't trying to say anything serious, you were trying to be snarky, saying europeans don't know what they are talking about (and assuming I am one). I am not european. I didn't repeat my american background and values because I already wrote them earlier in this thread. I do know what I am talking about- I am part of that mass I speak of. -Which is such an atypical attitude for an american you actually assumed I wasn't! You have illustrated my point! )

reply to post by Bluesma

I am not sure what you mean -what never occurs to the european mind?

That they DONT know what they are talking about.

Yes, it is american to refer to the government as an entity that is separate from self or the people. It is common in many countries to hear specific members of the government or a particular party refered to in criticism, but not the government as one entity.

That is just not true
www.youtube.com...
look "the muslims" and "the media"

and here
www.youtube.com...
They are protesting "the government"

I have no idea where you are getting this from

Response to Superhans
Your first link was a fail- despite the english speaker refering to "the government" no french person interviewed did, nor did any of their banners.
I know people who took part in that protest- they described taking part in a protest against a specific bill- not "the government". Because some of the members of that government agree with them and are on their side- it cannot be refered to as one entity with one opinion to them.


Your next link did show someone interviewed refering to "the government"... but I want to point something out, that goes back to what I said-

He saw himself as one of "the people" or "the mass". See? If one wishes to change or oppose a collective force (in this discussion, the Government), they must either combine to form another collective force , or integrate and inflitrate that force and influence from within.

In our traditional American values, to do one is to be a socialist, or communist, the other is to be a ... socialist or communist. Either way, you are becoming part of a group force. That's bad . (with one exception- your countries military- they are the only acceptable collective force to join because they are obedient to the ruler).

How often do you see such big protests in America?? Are you aware that they go on in Europe almost every day?

reply to post by Bluesma

He saw himself as one of "the people" or "the mass". See? If one wishes to change or oppose a collective force (in this discussion, the Government), they must either combine to form another collective force , or integrate and inflitrate that force and influence from within.

Then you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, you are blowing hot air about crap you made up?

In our traditonal values, to do one is to be a socialist, or communist, the other is to be a ... socialist or communist. That's bad.

What in the world do you think you are saying? To form a collective group does not mean you are a socialist or a communist, Where do you get your information? Do you read Cliff notes written by fans of the Rush Limbaugh show?

How often do you see such big protests in America?? Are you aware that they go on in Europe almost every day?

And what is the price of tea in china? I don't care why they are protesting in Europe, I really don't. Its a different country with their own problems.

Americans have killed many Palestanian brothers.
Americans are now afraid that you will face the same fate.

Originally posted by Superhans

Then you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, you are blowing hot air about crap you made up?

A childish insult that is unspecific... Besides calling my opinion "crap" I "made up", do you have counter argument to offer?

What in the world do you think you are saying? To form a collective group does not mean you are a socialist or a communist, Where do you get your information? Do you read Cliff notes written by fans of the Rush Limbaugh show?

I get my information from my own experience, having been born, raised, and educated in America.
This principle was put forth in propaganda and standardized education especially during the Cold War.
It continued to be broadcast in American media ever since.



The concept asserted is that if one opens themself to being part of a collective, they shall LOSE all individual identity. "Herd mentality" robs one of any choice or will, and is a negative destructive force. Peer pressure is a derogative- peers can only be negative influence.

Originally posted by Superhans
And what is the price of tea in china? I don't care why they are protesting in Europe, I really don't. Its a different country with their own problems.

The world is connected. Like it or not China and Europe have a massive effect on the Politics, Security and Economy of the US. Vice versa the US directly effects the lives of everyone else on the planet.

Originally posted by Bluesma

"I" am not part of "the masses".... "I" am not part of "the government". The individual opposes plurality. It is never a component of that whole to the typical american mind. (yes, that is a generality- which means it refers to a majority, not "all").

I think that is relevant.

I understand what your saying.

It is a tempting thought to believe that Americans don't think of their government as made up of actual individual and incompetent people, just like themselves. If you're perceiving it like a 'SKYNET' entity then It might explain the belief/fear that Americans have that one day it's going to go rogue.

France on the other hand is Politically exceptional. I think the people there really feel part of the political system and also believe that they can control the government (and often do). The French have a very good sense and feel for Politics. They make themselves part of it, instead of just relying on the media to fight their corner.

reply to post by Bluesma

A childish insult that is unspecific... Besides calling my opinion "crap" I "made up", do you have counter argument to offer?

There really is no counter argument, its not "American" to think if you belong to a group you are a "socialist" or a "communist", you made that up and its crap.

The concept asserted is that if one opens themself to being part of a collective, they shall LOSE all individual identity. "Herd mentality" robs one of any choice or will, and is a negative destructive force. Peer pressure is a derogative- peers can only be negative influence. Until somewhere in my 30's, I couldn't see things otherwise.

Again, not true. You can be part of any group or collective and still have an identity. There are only a few groups that come to mind where that applies. Anonymous and the KKK

FOMHL- then you really shoudn't be using videos of protests in Europe to illustrate your points you make about Europeans!

Because you were talking about something stupid how Europeans don't say "the government" and then I showed a video showing them say "the government". My point still stands I honestly do not give a crap WHY they are protesting I was just showing that saying "the government" is not an American saying.

in case my original assertion in relation to this topic is being lost in the details here,
being" one against many", Me against the world, or a David against a Goliath, is a perspective that generates fear.

lol wut? They don't generate fear they are inspirational if anything. "me against the world" and the story of david and Goliath both inspire, its about overcoming the odds and coming out on top. What are you talking about?

reply to post by region331


Well... I agree with you, but I didn't really want to focus on them in particular. Hans saw my location and veered of into talking about Europeans - but my focus is some constructive thought us Americans could put into our deepest conditioned values, and whether we should consider some of them as self-defeating and fear generating.

I personally found some of them to be, and my becoming aware of them was provoked by becoming aware that different ones are out there, but my intention is not to put them into competition.

Originally posted by region331

Originally posted by Superhans
And what is the price of tea in china? I don't care why they are protesting in Europe, I really don't. Its a different country with their own problems.

The world is connected. Like it or not China and Europe have a massive effect on the Politics, Security and Economy of the US. Vice versa the US directly effects the lives of everyone else on the planet.

Oh excuse me kind sir, you must have missed a very key point in what I was trying to say which I thought I made abundantly clear. Let me rephrase.

I DONT CARE

I just don't care and I really don't care about why you think I should care.

Originally posted by Superhans

Oh excuse me kind sir, you must have missed a very key point in what I was trying to say which I thought I made abundantly clear. Let me rephrase.

I just don't care and I really don't care about why you think I should care.[

Believe it or not, I got the fact that you don't care.But why don't you care?
I would have thought that even just from an Economic point of view, the Politics of other countries is directly affecting the amount of money you have in your pocket. Surely you should be curious. For example, the Californian economy exports a lot abroad, so the prosperity of the neighborhoods is a function of that relationship.

Originally posted by Superhans
Because you were talking about something stupid how Europeans don't say "the government" and then I showed a video showing them say "the government". My point still stands I honestly do not give a crap WHY they are protesting I was just showing that saying "the government" is not an American saying.

I said certain ideas were specifically american in viewpoint at first. YOU brought in the subject of Europeans!

Apparently you didn't bother getting the video translated- there was no use of the term "the government" by the protesters or those interviewed .
(except the english speaking journalist, who was not of the nationality being reported, therefore it is expected that they could not speak in terms of being part of the peoples being spoken of, nor their government.)

lol wut? They don't generate fear they are inspirational if anything. "me against the world" and the story of david and Goliath both inspire, its about overcoming the odds and coming out on top. What are you talking about?

In physical terms, one against many loses. It is a less powerful force. In eastern philosophy this is expressed in other ways, as in Yin being ultimately more powerful in earthly matter things than the Yang.

The victory of one against many can only come about in spiritual or mental levels. This is the moral of many stories, such as Christ on the cross, who kept his faith and view in spite of all those around him not sharing it and even up to his death.

This is a very inspiring and exciting concept for the ego/individual will; which tends to fear it's own mental "death" and loss of control more than anything.

On the other hand, you have the physical body, which has it's fear connected to physical death instead.
It produces certain hormones when it percieves a threat of many, or a giant entity, against it.
The ego can flourish in excitement while the body suffers from constant defense reactions inside. (with very physical signs- high blood pressure, obesity,...)

reply to post by Bluesma


The real observation here is that if you travel around the world, you have a deeper understanding of what's going on. You get to ponder your beliefs from a different point of view. It is eye opening.

Most people are born, live and die within a 30 mile radius. Their opinions and beliefs don't really have the opportunity for development.