S&F OP. Both parties have argued themselves into irrelevance. They are the marriage that can not be salvaged. They do nothing but throw blame and
petty arguments at each other with the result being one big gang fight. They are effectively in a different world than ours. We now have 4 classes of
people. Wealthy/middle class/poor and politician. It is no coincidence that Washington is thriving. They have surpassed even the great silicone valley
boom while the rest of America suffers. They do not represent the people of America. They pay cash for $200k cars. They are the thugs that sacked
Rome.
The First Shots of the Second American Revolution have been fired, page 5
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 02:41 PM by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by CosmicCitizen
It's not the top though. It's the whole system, it has to be reworked.
There can be no more career politicians and campaign money should only be allowed to be donated by individuals (no pacs, unions, corporations, etc). Terms should be 2 years or less for all politicians and the people should vote on everything and strip power from all reps. We have the ability to vote on everything through technology so technically representatives are obsolete. Sure we needed them when everyone lived in hollers and small towns cut off from the world, but they don't any more.
People should be chosen as representatives the same as they are chosen for jury duty. Choose ten law abiding citizens at random and let people vote on them. Then whatever those very temporary representatives do has to be voted on by the people. Sure people will have to become more active and may have to vote weekly or monthly on issues, but that's how a republic should be. People shouldn't be lazy, if they weren't things wouldn't get so bad. We have the ability to instantaneously speak our minds and tally our votes.
We have to set a new precedence for what a republic actually is.
It's not the top though. It's the whole system, it has to be reworked.
There can be no more career politicians and campaign money should only be allowed to be donated by individuals (no pacs, unions, corporations, etc). Terms should be 2 years or less for all politicians and the people should vote on everything and strip power from all reps. We have the ability to vote on everything through technology so technically representatives are obsolete. Sure we needed them when everyone lived in hollers and small towns cut off from the world, but they don't any more.
People should be chosen as representatives the same as they are chosen for jury duty. Choose ten law abiding citizens at random and let people vote on them. Then whatever those very temporary representatives do has to be voted on by the people. Sure people will have to become more active and may have to vote weekly or monthly on issues, but that's how a republic should be. People shouldn't be lazy, if they weren't things wouldn't get so bad. We have the ability to instantaneously speak our minds and tally our votes.
We have to set a new precedence for what a republic actually is.
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 02:42 PM by seabag
reply to post by Bluesma
The revolution is already underway…no civil war necessary!
We ARE the government. Who will do the feds bidding? The fed will cease to exist if there is no union. Nobody will be left to pay their salaries.
The federal government no longer represents the people.
Yet no matter which party wins the results are the same. Who is represented when everyone gets screwed?
Politics is divisive…that’s why people always say, “Never talk politics with family.”
Stop being so dramatic!
Nobody is advocating war! Certainly not me!
Not a revolution, but a civil war, I am very sadly afraid.
The revolution is already underway…no civil war necessary!
You cannot beat your government. In your fear of outsiders, you equipped them too heavily- your firearms are meaningless to them.
We ARE the government. Who will do the feds bidding? The fed will cease to exist if there is no union. Nobody will be left to pay their salaries.
But of course you can kill your neighbor. And all this talk I see here reflects a mistaken conclusion that it is "the people" against "the government".
The federal government no longer represents the people.
But the government was voted into place by people. It represents half of the people. The Democrats and the Republicans are the people.
Yet no matter which party wins the results are the same. Who is represented when everyone gets screwed?
I observe my brother and my father on opposite ends of this clash, they can barely talk anymore.
Politics is divisive…that’s why people always say, “Never talk politics with family.”
The government shall watch while you kill each other. Keeping this house divided (and weak) has been very, very, successful. It makes me want to cry. You won't see me cheering this on.
Stop being so dramatic!
Nobody is advocating war! Certainly not me!
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 02:46 PM by ldyserenity
reply to post by MamaJ
Jefferson said it best "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. "
Read more at www.brainyquote.com...
I am sad to say, he's dead on.
Jefferson said it best "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. "
Read more at www.brainyquote.com...
I am sad to say, he's dead on.
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 02:52 PM by seabag
reply to post by ldyserenity
While I certainly understand Jefferson’s words, I think that type of action is what TPTB want. That type of action will give them justification for taking the remainder of our rights.
I’m not advocating that…my idea is much more peaceful and ultimately more effective (IMO of course). We take our power back not by force but through the means outlined by the founders.
Jefferson said it best "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. "
Read more at www.brainyquote.com...
I am sad to say, he's dead on.
While I certainly understand Jefferson’s words, I think that type of action is what TPTB want. That type of action will give them justification for taking the remainder of our rights.
I’m not advocating that…my idea is much more peaceful and ultimately more effective (IMO of course). We take our power back not by force but through the means outlined by the founders.
Do we have a redress? Do we take the streets and revolt? Maybe eventually, but our founding fathers gave us another way. It is not the clearest way, not every Founder believed in it, the history is sketchy. Scholars are lined against it. But there can be no doubt what Thomas Jefferson and James Madison meant when they penned the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions. The States, therein the people, can, and must, say one word to the Federal government in this, and other, unconstitutional instances:link
No.
edit on 31-1-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 03:01 PM by severdsoul
reply to post by seabag
that is the best idea i have read in a long time,
gut the whole lot, everyone in power of any kind on
fed leve , gone and start over.
its about the only way to fix things, otherwise the monkeys
will still be in there throwing wrenches into the works.
that is the best idea i have read in a long time,
gut the whole lot, everyone in power of any kind on
fed leve , gone and start over.
its about the only way to fix things, otherwise the monkeys
will still be in there throwing wrenches into the works.
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 03:02 PM by frazzle
Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by ldyserenity
Sorry to say but experiencing Christie Whitman and Jeb Bush and a myriad of other "STATE" politicians, it isn't them that are gonna get us out of this mess, they're all just extensions of the same figure, extensions of the federal government and like someone else said, they're all drinking buddies, it's like the states mentioned here are basically cutting off their nose to spite their face (They are just as bad if not worse about who they represent, Just ask Delaware about the Duponts and how many local political pies their fingers are in, both figuratively and otherwise).
In some states this is the case.
BUT…..you are free to move to a different state if you disagree with the state government; there are 49 other options for you. What are your options when you disagree with an overbearing federal government? Renouncing your citizenship is pretty EXTREME, don’t you think? That’s a lot more of a commitment than moving to another state.
I've disagreed with you on various issues in the past but this is definitely not one of them. This is job one and you're making the case as well as I've ever seen it made. S & F.
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 03:10 PM by seabag
reply to post by severdsoul
I wish I could say this is my idea but it’s actually the wisdom of our founders…I just happen to be screaming it from the roof top today!
And I agree that this seems to be the only way; we say “NO,” and if they continue to push then we dissolve the union and send them all packing!
hat is the best idea i have read in a long time,
gut the whole lot, everyone in power of any kind on
fed leve , gone and start over.
its about the only way to fix things, otherwise the monkeys
will still be in there throwing wrenches into the works.
I wish I could say this is my idea but it’s actually the wisdom of our founders…I just happen to be screaming it from the roof top today!
And I agree that this seems to be the only way; we say “NO,” and if they continue to push then we dissolve the union and send them all packing!
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 03:16 PM by DocHolidaze
reply to post by seabag
Im thinking your not giving California its due respect, I used to live there when i was a young man, and I can a see a state that is one of the most free in the world. Thats why there is so many lame laws and gun restrictions because the Cali administrators need them.
Cali is next to Mexico so for every legal gun , there are is a bunch of illegal guns. not to mention all the people in Cali that believe in freedom just like you and I. I heard some stories of weapons caches(with all the free space in Cali) that got started when the first ban on assault rifles happened. and Cali being next to Nevada which has a lack of gun laws and magazine laws it it very easy for Californians what ever they want.
Yes this a a liberal democratic state, but i wanna say that's because there is so much freedom to go around here that the liberals do there thing, and the rest do there's.. the liberals lose there freedoms by voting, everyone else just does what they want because its California, and people have been doing what ever they want since the first settlers showed up.
Hypothetically if there are actually shoots fired(which i hope never happens) I think you will be surprised the help that the rebellion will get from California and that's just from the militia groups, the gangs will see a rebellion as a way to make money, so there in as well. California has had a violent history and i dont expect it to disappoint when violence comes knocking.
Im thinking your not giving California its due respect, I used to live there when i was a young man, and I can a see a state that is one of the most free in the world. Thats why there is so many lame laws and gun restrictions because the Cali administrators need them.
Cali is next to Mexico so for every legal gun , there are is a bunch of illegal guns. not to mention all the people in Cali that believe in freedom just like you and I. I heard some stories of weapons caches(with all the free space in Cali) that got started when the first ban on assault rifles happened. and Cali being next to Nevada which has a lack of gun laws and magazine laws it it very easy for Californians what ever they want.
Yes this a a liberal democratic state, but i wanna say that's because there is so much freedom to go around here that the liberals do there thing, and the rest do there's.. the liberals lose there freedoms by voting, everyone else just does what they want because its California, and people have been doing what ever they want since the first settlers showed up.
Hypothetically if there are actually shoots fired(which i hope never happens) I think you will be surprised the help that the rebellion will get from California and that's just from the militia groups, the gangs will see a rebellion as a way to make money, so there in as well. California has had a violent history and i dont expect it to disappoint when violence comes knocking.
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 03:23 PM by seabag
reply to post by DocHolidaze
You may be right about the goodness of the people of CA. I’m not writing off any state. As a matter of fact, CA has an active petition to secede right now that was started in November!
There are great people everywhere but CA’s petition isn’t getting as much traction as several other states.
People who can’t elect state officials that represent their values may have to move to a more friendly state.
You may be right about the goodness of the people of CA. I’m not writing off any state. As a matter of fact, CA has an active petition to secede right now that was started in November!
California has joined its fellow 49 states in politely petitioning the White House to secede from the union.link
Since President Barack Obama's re-election last week, those unhappy with that outcome across the land have taken advantage of the We The People website (petitions.whitehouse.gov...), that allows citizens to post petitions on just about anything that bugs them.
There are great people everywhere but CA’s petition isn’t getting as much traction as several other states.
People who can’t elect state officials that represent their values may have to move to a more friendly state.
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 03:37 PM by ldyserenity
reply to post by seabag
They wouldn't be able to if they're all dead, now would they? We do outnumber them. And I don't think this way will work because state's have their own agendas as well too much power in the hands of very few.
They wouldn't be able to if they're all dead, now would they? We do outnumber them. And I don't think this way will work because state's have their own agendas as well too much power in the hands of very few.
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 03:43 PM by seabag
reply to post by ldyserenity
There isn’t a lot a dead man can do, that’s for sure!
We’ll agree to disagree on this one because I still believe that’s exactly what they want…and I’m not in a giving mood!
It will work because the power of the fed is derived from the states. If no states are in the union then there is no union and there is no fed.
The states are supposed to have their own agendas. We all have our own agendas. We only come together as a union for strength in numbers, not because we share agendas.
They wouldn't be able to if they're all dead, now would they?
We do outnumber them.
There isn’t a lot a dead man can do, that’s for sure!
We’ll agree to disagree on this one because I still believe that’s exactly what they want…and I’m not in a giving mood!
And I don't think this way will work because state's have their own agendas as well too much power in the hands of very few.
It will work because the power of the fed is derived from the states. If no states are in the union then there is no union and there is no fed.
The states are supposed to have their own agendas. We all have our own agendas. We only come together as a union for strength in numbers, not because we share agendas.
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 04:16 PM by GenxAlphaCompany
U.S. Constitution 101:
As far as states rights are concerned:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.
This is the reason there was a civil war in the U.S. It is illegal to secede.
Link
en.wikipedia.org...
As far as states rights are concerned:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.
This is the reason there was a civil war in the U.S. It is illegal to secede.
Link
en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 31/1/2013 by GenxAlphaCompany because: added link
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 04:22 PM by Wanderer777
reply to post by DaTroof
Bush and Obama are damn near the same. Also the OPs timespan said for decades and I agree with it. Don't think Obama is here to save you, because he could care less about the American people. Hence the doing nothing and all the vacations. The only time we see any real action from him is when he has no other choice. The debt he put us in, in 4 years is twice as much Bush did in 8. He just spends money quicker. Also impeachment won't doing anything because it will never go through. Everyone is so far up his a$$ and vice versa . He was voted man of the year for goodness sakes. Not saying Bush is a peach either. Couldn't stand the man. All I'm trying to say is that, what I got from the OP was that the Feds have been trying to keep the country seperated with this bi-partisan beuracratic crap to distract us from what's really going on: Our rights being stripped away by the federal government. The states finally have one major thing the majority of them agree on: Not taking guns away. That's what I got from this anyway. Good thread S&F and if I could a cookie
Bush and Obama are damn near the same. Also the OPs timespan said for decades and I agree with it. Don't think Obama is here to save you, because he could care less about the American people. Hence the doing nothing and all the vacations. The only time we see any real action from him is when he has no other choice. The debt he put us in, in 4 years is twice as much Bush did in 8. He just spends money quicker. Also impeachment won't doing anything because it will never go through. Everyone is so far up his a$$ and vice versa . He was voted man of the year for goodness sakes. Not saying Bush is a peach either. Couldn't stand the man. All I'm trying to say is that, what I got from the OP was that the Feds have been trying to keep the country seperated with this bi-partisan beuracratic crap to distract us from what's really going on: Our rights being stripped away by the federal government. The states finally have one major thing the majority of them agree on: Not taking guns away. That's what I got from this anyway. Good thread S&F and if I could a cookie
edit on 31-1-2013 by Wanderer777 because: Add in
reply posted on 31-1-2013 @ 04:32 PM by Wanderer777
Originally posted by DaTroof
Originally posted by TrueAmerican
reply to post by DaTroof
It's going to hell PERIOD, no matter who is in office.
But good article, seabag!
I have reservations about its optimism, but for lack of anything else- I'll take it.
How exactly? What period of America was ideal? The 80s? The 50s? The 1850s? Also, you realize you have more freedoms now than ever with the internet. Go back to 1955 and tell me how free your speech is.
Okay I'm sorry but that statement is ridiculous. Just because there's internet now doesn't mean we are more free. It just makes it easier to watch the citizens. Rather than talking about it in the streets we're all on the net. But guess what..... SO ARE THEY! Also if you are referring to the Communist scare, we have the same thing now. We just swapped Communists with terrorists.
people.howstuffworks.com...
So yeah we have WAAAAAAY more freedom now that there's internet.... sure. How much you wanna bet they are dropping in on this thread right now and checking up on everyone. The net's just given them more of a shadow to creep around in. And I'm sorry, but any government that does its work in the shadows is not a good governemt. So the truth is the net has only succeded in keeping by the short and curlys.
Update...Canada Couple Wins Right To Grow Vegetables On Front Lawn...Case Closed!
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