The First Shots of the Second American Revolution have been fired

Originally posted by TheWrightWing
reply to post by seabag

 

We can't wait around for a Saviour to appear and save us.

We are all our own Ronald Reagans now. And rightly so.

Ronald Reagan?...Saviour?

Iran-Contra?...And Afghanistan?...Arming and training Islamic Militants in Afghanistan?

I am still confused why conservatives lionize Reagan?

reply to post by Indigo5


There were no wars on Reagan's watch and he brought about the longest period of sustained economic growth the country has ever seen. He doubled federal revenues while cutting taxes on the American people. I guess you don't understand the economic condition the country was in after Carter.

I don't think any one person could undo the damage we have now....even Reagan....at least I find it hard to believe.

You rightys are waiting for a Ronald Reagan?

ok...erm..you realize by simple statistical and factual comparison, Reagan makes Obama seem so conservative he borders on fascist, right?

Reagan, the liberal, increased federal spending by 8.7% ini his first term, and 4.9 in his second term (that's debt folks)
Following that, "dad" bush increased it 5.4%
It took Clinton, a D, to bring it under 4 for both his terms.
Obama, in his first term, outside of the large amounts of numbers heard, only increased it by 1.4% (added new what was not in existence before...Obama didn't suddenly make up the need to pay for wars, he just showed the books as to what was already being spent.)

In this issue, the big dilemma and reason why the right is freaked out about Obama isn't about spending..its about him being transparent with the fiscal reality that's been going on for many, many decades (where Reagan isn't some savior, but rather shows exactly what a mess he helped contribute to)

But more on Reagan
Reagan helped impose an assault weapons ban. He was for removal of nuclear weapons. He instituted big taxes. Was known for making many deals with congressional dems (compromise and consensus for fixing problems). Was surrounded my moderates (and some hard liners of his party)

He was also all about the "class warfare" lockstep with Obama

His own words.

The people on the right today whom are pining over the -actual- celebrity, Ronald Reagan, would simply not fit in his party...you would be way to far to the right. You are the "kooks". deal with it...you lost the election..twice...and look to be setting yourself for a hat trick should you remain with your spinny dream logic.

reply to post by seabag

or that anyone here is calling for a civil war or revolutionary war.

I have said no such things.

Nah, it's not like your title is "First SHOTS of the Second American Revolution have been fired" or anything.

Why would anyone think you are calling for a revolutionary war???

Some of you are so intoxicated on the Kool Aid of the left/right that its clouded your vision.

Everyone knows you and that you are a very partisan person.

For you to attempt to criticize people for left/right thinking is laughable.

Were there any shots fired during the Ron Paul Revolution??

What Ron Paul Revolution????

Was that where his supporters lied to themselves saying Ron Paul is winning because they would flood internet polls and ignore scientific polls?

I must have missed the Ron Paul Revolution....

reply to post by seabag
I have been reading about the states and Sheriffs, I really hope they can do something, at this point they are our only hope.
The fact you have posters saying you have said things you did not and tring to spin your OP is the nature of the liberal socialist beast. They can't argue with facts in a civil manner so (like this administration) they inject lies, shills and trolls into the thread and ridacule with hate and anger.
I'm sure you have read enough threads to see this and with a thread about something that gives hope to people that we might actuelly be "uniting" to beat this onslaught of "love thy government because they give us stuff" types you will bring these types out of the woodwork just because of what you are insinuating.......freedom and there diemise all legal and without there kind of hate.

Like a cold sore, they will go away.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Indigo5

 

There were no wars on Reagan's watch

Google: "Cold war"

and he brought about the longest period of sustained economic growth the country has ever seen.

Google "Clinton years"

He doubled federal revenues while cutting taxes on the American people.

On the top margain, he reduced taxes significantly, but was hit with a massive debt issue (come to find out, you cant stop taking money in and run a government), so two bills were passed in 82 and 84 which constituted the biggest tax increase ever enacted during peacetime. (good taxes though..closing loopholes, hammering tax evasion, etc)
in 83, he did the social security reform legislation that accelerated a increase on payroll tax rate, and that higher income beneficiaries pay income tax on part of their benefits, also require self-employed to pay full payroll tax rate.

in 86, bill was passed to hammered tax breaks and shelters (omg, class warfare!)

Point is, he knew that not all taxes are bad.

I guess you don't understand the economic condition the country was in after Carter.

Synthetic manipulation..but it is a very good example of just how much in control big oil is on the US...play ball and have the nation kowtow to the middle eastern dictators, or suffer a economic meltdown. This is the point the country should have come together and invested heavily on alternative fuel...instead we just moaned, and demanded we bow to the middle east forever so we can have cheap gas.

I don't think any one person could undo the damage we have now....even Reagan....at least I find it hard to believe.

That's the spirit.
Don't worry...should your standard puppet GOP win in 16, Rush will instruct you to go out and wave your flag, chant USA,. and say we are the bestest most coolest yummy country ever forever amen and all will be good in the world for 4 years.

Come on guys, is there really no middle ground between "My Guy won the election" and the opposite; "The Republic as we know it is over, anarchy rules and there will be war on the street"?

To be honest it comes off a little "Sky is falling" and your valid points on the the State of the Union get lost in hyperbole. This is ATS, even highly charged subjects like politics, religion and even guns should be able to be discussed without rampant exaggeration on both sides of any of those debates.

If there is one place on the internet where even Gun Control and the 2nd Amendment can be discussed rationally, ATS should be that place.

Or am I being ridiculously naive??

Wow, If anyone really thinks that The States are going to win any wars against the Feds I would like to point out one tiny flaw. They can't even keep the Feds from bust pot dispensaries in States that have made them legal. When the Feds say "OK keep your guns" it will only be after all Federal Funds have been cut from said State.

I can hear the Feds say it now; "Oh you need assistance with Food or Healthcare? Do you live in Montana? Ask them! Oh you need a highway, bridge or airport fixed? Sorry, you live in Montana.

The level of disobedience required on a State level would be fiscal suicide. Lots of talk from lots of conservatives. Nothing will come of it. Tis IMHO all lip service to their conservative voter base.

Where were all these conservatives when we were pissing away our children futures on illegal wars? Where was their fight over the double and quadruple taxation of income?

It sickens me that it took losing our ability to own assault weapons (I love guns) to fire up these so called conservatives. WTF does that say about us as a society?

If I ever meet Ted Nugent I will kick him right in the nuts. Of all the fights to pick against our Government, assault weapon ownership should not be at the top of the list. On the list yes, but not the top.

reply to post by MrSpad

Not only is it a fairytale it is almost as silly as people blabbling about a revolution. Or people like thos decribed in the op who will stand up and face imaginary threats.

The threats are not imaginary. They are the same threats that had tried to ruin the United States from the advent of the Union.

When we fought the revolutionary war, our actions did not just upset the King of Great Britain. We upset the true powers of Europe, who were primarily the banking families.

Now, do not assume that I am against "banking." What I mean is that, there is a specific mathematical practice for the creation of currency that is used to swamp nations in debt. When we started the Union, the families who controlled Europe with fractional-reserve banking did not want a group of countries running themselves outside of their control.

We survived the First Bank of The United and the Second Bank of The Second Bank of The United States...but where both attempts at the control of our economy failed, their predecessor, the Federal Reserve succeeded.

The Federal Reserve is a private bank and IS NOT a branch of the federal government as their name implies (clever). The federal government borrows money from the Federal Reserve. If the Federal Reserve were merely a branch of the Federal government, then how is it possible that we can be in debt to ourselves? The entire notion would be absurd, you cannot be in debt to yourself. You can't even "borrow" from yourself. How is that possible??

The fractional-reserve bankers wanted control over our economy, because if you control a nation's money supply, you control the nation.

Did you know that you are not allowed to question the "validity" of our debt?

The 14th Amendment Section 4

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

The validity of the public debt of the United States shall not be questioned.

val·id (vld)
adj.
1. Well grounded; just: a valid objection.
2. Producing the desired results; efficacious: valid methods.
3. Having legal force; effective or binding: a valid title.
4. Logic
a. Containing premises from which the conclusion may logically be derived: a valid argument.
b. Correctly inferred or deduced from a premise: a valid conclusion.
5. Archaic Of sound health; robust.

Now, remember that section 4 of the 14th amendment says including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection and rebellion. So, it is not saying that the debt will not be questioned only when it is the result of putting down rebellions, BUT the validity of the debt will not be questioned including those instances that it is incurred to put down rebellions.

If someone did not have nefarious aims, and was being completely honest, why would they say that the validity of the public debt cannot be questioned? Could it be, perhaps, because the debt is not valid?

And what would someone have to gain from putting the Union into debt?

And remember that the 14th amendment was passed right after the civil war. So this "war against the American people" is very old; and when you claim that people are standing up to face an "imaginary threat" you are being ignorant and degrading to the people who know better.

reply to post by seabag


Well I think that they are just covering their buts and placating the gun owners and that the duel masks that the politicians wear will soon be exposed as the second amendments are strategically striped down one decade, one generation at a time.

Good OP btw.

Originally posted by seabag

The shots being fired, the first movements in a war to save our republican form of government are coming from the most unheralded of places. What is happening in Topeka, Austin, Ogden, Billings, Richmond and many other locales is just the beginning of a movement that will sweep this nation in the next four years. The people, in the form of their respective States and their State legislatures, are learning and relearning the lessons that Jefferson and Madison taught us over 200 years ago.

The lesson resides in one word: Just say "No."

Some conservatives are waiting for the next Ronald Reagan to come along and save our country from Obama. We put our faith in the Tea Party to pack congress full of like-minded Americans and we have come up short. Democrats and moderates put their hope in Obama only to get more of the same garbage we’ve seen for decades. Government continues to grow and our freedom continues to erode. There is no one person or one group that is going to fix the damage that has been done. The next American Revolution has begun and the battlefield spreads from coast to coast.

When the Democratic Governor of Montana claims that any Federal government ban on the right to bear arms will not take hold in his State or when the Republican Governor of Texas says that there are sections of the Obamacare law that will not hit the ground in his State, they are not espousing a new, radical and revolutionary theory of American self-governance. They are speaking from an over 200 year history that traces its roots back to the Founding of our great nation and codified by the pens of none other than Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. They are the kernels of the coming restoration of America.

link


It will be the states that take this country back from the overreaching, power hungry usurpers in Washington, DC. If our representatives won’t fix this mess then WE WILL! I’m am glad to live in one of the many states that GETS IT!

In early 1835, Mexican president Santa Anna began centralizing power and operating as a dictator, much like Obama. Texas fought against tyranny and won, and we will once again stand against tyranny along with Americans from many states across this country.

As the founding fathers of the United States of America made clear in the Declaration of Independence in 1776:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government..."

WhiteHouse.gov

We can accomplish this without any bloodshed.

The first shots have been fired…It is time to reclaim our country!

edit on 31-1-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

I think this problem lay deeper then our representatives! It's a systemic problem! When wealth controls who comes into office, when corporations use lobbiest and think tanks to not just influence but to write the actual
legislation, when corporations are considered citizens, when freedoms erode to make us easier to control,
when conformity is doctrined into the very heart of the school system and those who are different or independent of this conformity are drugged into submission! There is more then just a who's in office problem! We have been deeply ingrained to be a materialistic, selfish and apathetic society and so the problem lay not in office but in the mirror of our very souls! I don't mean to take away from your optimism of the country coming back from the brink of oppression but I think there is more to this problem and the issues are more deeply ingrained into each of us! I also believe it may take many decades or perhaps even a century before the kind of change that is needed becomes apparent!

reply to post by SaturnFX

Reagan, the liberal, increased federal spending by 8.7% ini his first term, and 4.9 in his second term (that's debt folks)
Following that, "dad" bush increased it 5.4%
It took Clinton, a D, to bring it under 4 for both his terms.
Obama, in his first term, outside of the large amounts of numbers heard, only increased it by 1.4% (added new what was not in existence before...Obama didn't suddenly make up the need to pay for wars, he just showed the books as to what was already being spent.)

They all suck. Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr., and Obama.

If they were actually serving the American people they would have disbanded the fed and wiped out the debt and threw out every amendment to the federal constitution from 11 to 27.

Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon
If they were actually serving the American people they would have disbanded the fed and wiped out the debt and threw out every amendment to the federal constitution from 11 to 27.

See, this is where I disagree

They are serving the people.
The -people- (aka us) are just self serving....so yes..they are doing exactly what they were voted in to do...help us in our selfish ways remain selfish.

Our politicians are a perfect example of where the state of the union is...and until we start accepting blame and understanding that they are not a cause, they are a reflection, then we will forever be washing out the old and putting in new scapegoats for us.

Of the people, By the people, and for the people..not when convenient..but always

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Indigo5

 

There were no wars on Reagan's watch and he brought about the longest period of sustained economic growth the country has ever seen. He doubled federal revenues while cutting taxes on the American people. I guess you don't understand the economic condition the country was in after Carter.

I don't think any one person could undo the damage we have now....even Reagan....at least I find it hard to believe.

edit on 1-2-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

jesus...even wikipedia proves you wrong, along with hundreds of other studies on reaganomics.
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon
If they were actually serving the American people they would have disbanded the fed and wiped out the debt and threw out every amendment to the federal constitution from 11 to 27.

See, this is where I disagree

They are serving the people.
The -people- (aka us) are just self serving....so yes..they are doing exactly what they were voted in to do...help us in our selfish ways remain selfish.

What do you mean by selfish?

Our politicians are a perfect example of where the state of the union is...and until we start accepting blame and understanding that they are not a cause, they are a reflection, then we will forever be washing out the old and putting in new scapegoats for us.

People will continue voting because they honestly believe that we still live in the same United States that our forefathers founded. Politicians lie to the American people, I cannot blame them for not having the knowledge and understanding to realize the charade. The president is not the scapegoat for us, he is a scapegoat for the federal reserve. So while we continue squabbling with one another over which President has done a better job, and whether republicans or democrats are better, the Federal Reserve is still manipulating our economy.

Of the people, By the people, and for the people..not when convenient..but always

No. The original Union was of the people, for the people, and by the people. The current government is de facto and is not the de jure government our forefathers founded. If you are a Citizen of the United States, you are in rebellion against your lawful republic.

When you vote, you are not voting for a president to reside over the de jure republic. You are voting for another mask to be placed over the de facto empire.

The only recourse we have to rebuild the republic is removing ourselves through the law from out of the empire.

Obama is in office now... All the blame lays on him now.. He has been in office for over 4 years now..

Time to take responsibility for the mess he has created.

how about we fence off wyoming, and give it to the right-wingers, they can make up their own country, with no taxes, have as many guns as they want, no welfare, no social security, no medicare, no whiny liberals or democrats, no brown people (except those that are wealthy), no social programs whatsoever, and they will be able to form their own right-wing government.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon
If they were actually serving the American people they would have disbanded the fed and wiped out the debt and threw out every amendment to the federal constitution from 11 to 27.

See, this is where I disagree

They are serving the people.
The -people- (aka us) are just self serving....so yes..they are doing exactly what they were voted in to do...help us in our selfish ways remain selfish.

Our politicians are a perfect example of where the state of the union is...and until we start accepting blame and understanding that they are not a cause, they are a reflection, then we will forever be washing out the old and putting in new scapegoats for us.

Of the people, By the people, and for the people..not when convenient..but always

Holy ****. Voters knowingly sent representatives to washington to write and pass NAFTA and GATT so corporations could offshore their jobs to Mexico and Asia?

You're right, that was pretty darned selfish of the voters.

Originally posted by gangdumstyle
Obama is in office now... All the blame lays on him now.. He has been in office for over 4 years now..

Time to take responsibility for the mess he has created.

good, so you agree that he can change whatever legislation the republicans in the house try to stop or start...... that is noble of you, please forward your suggestion to the aformentioned governmental body.

Originally posted by gangdumstyle
Obama is in office now... All the blame lays on him now.. He has been in office for over 4 years now..

Time to take responsibility for the mess he has created.

The responsibility does and does not lay at Obama's feet.

He, like every President we have had since Woodrow Wilson, is just another cog in the wheel.

This bickering between the parties is insignificant.

Both parties work for the people who control the creation of, and manipulation of, our money supply.

They are puppets and we are blind to their strings.