Does anti-Obama hatred undermine collectively held US values?, page 4

reply to post by Astyanax

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How old are you? I'm not arguing with you just trying to figure out how you call people racist for not liking him. I personally don't like any politician or politics because it's all corrupt.

But seriously just answer one question for me. How is a black man or woman racist against their own race? I know plenty of black folk who hate Obama.

reply to post by Revealation

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I'm pretty 'racist' against my own race, as it happens. But if you're black and you hate Obama, what I said in my first post on the thread obviously doesn't apply to you – you're not one of the 'most'.

What I said in my second still does, though.

To answer your question, I will be 55 this year. I am not American. I have lived through a generation-long civil war in my own country, one which may have killed as many as a quarter of a million people directly and indirectly, and which drove over a million people to take refuge abroad. I have travelled far, and lived in democratic societies both capitalist and socialist, as well as right-wing dictatorships and absolute monarchies. I know well the difference between political systems – from first-hand experience.

Now hear this: decent, civilised people around the world, who cherish liberty and democracy, depend more than you could possibly understand on the United States of America remaining decent, civilised, free and democratic. However, it looks to me as if the democratic contract in America is falling apart and right now it is entirely because of chauvinists and sore losers on the Paranoid Right, who refuse to accept the election result that put a black Democrat in the Oval Office.

Don't be such bloody dogs in the manger! Let the other side have its turn. The man you love to hate will be gone in 2016 anyway – because America is still free, is still democratic, and Barack Obama has no intention of changing that. If Republicans can come up with a better story than the superstitious, hate-filled, divisive rubbish they seem to have now embraced, you'll have your turn again. Be patient, and BE DECENT.

The world looks to America to do the right thing. For a change, do it.

reply to post by Astyanax

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Really sorry, but, ATS-threads mentioning "Obama" (or "guns" for that matter) are ab-so-lutely NOT the places where one will find decent. informative debate.

As foreigners, we will probably néver be able to understand The American Mindset.

"We are from different worlds"

I'll leave it at that.

reply to post by Astyanax

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For somebody whose been through all those political regimes...you're clueless. You are blaming Americans and republicans. 1st of all I have no political affiliation. I'm an American and a human being. That's it. But to piont out that republicans are the problem is ludicrous. There is a 2 party system which is against everything this country was founded on. Our "elected officials are supposed to represent "We the PEOPLE" , not "We the Democrats" or "We the Republicans". Their only concerns are to get the majority vote so "THEIR PARTY" has the power to accomplish their 'OWN"goals. They don't care about you or us and neither do the republicans.

Politics is a business and anything they do..even if it looks like they are helping others, they aren't....it's simply about them benefiting in the form of financial prosperity.Its all about selfish motive and self indulgence and self glorification. They are actuall destroying this country and world though you believe just the opposite.

But what I don't understand is why or how people who AREN"T AMERICANS even open their mouths about American politics and beliefs.

That's part of the problem. You aren't even American yet believe you have a right to what's ours. Saying you depend on us as if it's our job to take 'CARE " of you and every other country.

You say.... "DO the DECENT thing"? 1st off, it isn't the American peoples choice even though it should be. That is made up solely by the criminals who run the country (both democrat and republicans alike)

WHat bothers me th most is that you have balls to even think you're entitled to what we Americans work our lives away for and is stolen out of our salaries. I work to make a better life for my children yet their future is getting polluted and destroyed because of political policies and laws.

I love how the hands are always out. To either recieve free things from, or to point blame and demonize the United States. This isn't the United Nations. We're a country not a world.

Let "YOUR OWN" countries take care of you, its not our job.

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reply to post by dutchmilpo

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Really sorry, but, ATS-threads mentioning "Obama" (or "guns" for that matter) are ab-so-lutely NOT the places where one will find decent. informative debate.

As foreigners, we will probably néver be able to understand The American Mindset.

"We are from different worlds"

I'll leave it at that.

You can't have a debate when people aren't willing to openly and unbiasly look at both sides of the topic without judging nothing but the facts. Instead most of us use our emotions to judge instead of our minds, which i'm guilyty of myself many times. Also it's not for you to debate if you're not American.

Like you said, you won't be able to understand our mindset, but realize we won't be able to understand yours either. I never walked in your shoes or lived your life as you haven't lived mine. I can only empathize and try to understand. Not the same though as actually living it and you wouldn't understand how our politicians decisions are affecting our quality of life and the futures of my children and grandchildren..

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
reply to post by Juggernog

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I personally use "communist" because it does have that evil cold-war inflection, which is more viscerally effective than saying "socialist", because so many young people view socialism as a good thing. They are of course misinformed.

But it gives actual communists a bad association, puts them in a bad light. It's a disservice to actual communists. They were worthy enemies, enemies worthy of a man.

Obama is not.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by NewAgeMan

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He's black enough for them. That's enough to be going on with. You have any better theories?

They don't get any whiter than Jimmy Carter, and I hated him with the same passion. As a matter of fact, I can't yet tell which is going to have been more destructive to America - Carter or Obama. Obama is certainly giving Carter a run for the money, and may outstrip him in destructiveness in the end, by virtue of having the advantage of building on the foundation that Bush built.

Bush was a totalitarian jackass as well - do I you also suppose I dislike him because of race?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

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It's not so much about Obama but about the government and the office of the President as a whole. I personally knew this country was F'd up right after 911 when the proof emerged about the planes flying into the towers and pentagon.

Obama was supposed to represent change but instead he came in and took over where Bush left off. I knew we were in trouble as soon as he signed another stimulus package and gave it to the very assholes that created the 2008 bubble to burst. That pissed me off!

Everyone should have known his campaign was total BS. Let's face it, how many people would actually have wanted to really become President behind the wake of George B? The evil do-gooders threw us a curve and the American people fell for it. Hook, Line, and Sinker! A lot of people thought he was going to be different but lets be realistic; he's an attorney, from Chicago, who probably has some serious identity issues. Those are three bad characteristics in anybody's book.

If you get a chance, look up the video, "the Grinding Down of America"; that should provide some answers.

I hope this clears it up a little as to why people appear to be pissed at Obama, at least that's my opinion.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

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no he won't, nor will anyone else. people around here love throwing out their favorite platitudes, but if you ask for more than that you'll just get more played out platitudes. the hatred towards obama is as real as it is racially motivated, in my opinion. im white, american, male, southern, and none too fond of obama but i can see the hatred for what it is. there are many legitimate reasons a person might disagree with the president, but there are far less reasons to explain the hatred and vitriol expressed towards him by many people.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by harvib

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No it's the whole thing, his Healthcare Plan, even though they had to end up ramming it through which was divisive, was a good thing and necessary.

No.

It was in no way a good thing, not by any stretch of the imagination. NO ONE, not government, not citizen, has the right to force me to make a purchase of something I neither want nor need. The ONLY good to come out of it is a "good" opportunity for me to practice civil disobedience and refusal to comply. Not failure to comply, but a willful refusal to do so.

I'm not going to comply with Obamacare, and I wouldn't comply if governmental edict attempted to force me to buy a pink Cadillac, either. If I don't need something, don't want something, and will never use something, I'm not about to pay for said something, end of story. I don't give a rat's ass WHO says I "have to".

The gay rights issue was a good stance to take. (even though I'm straight and a Christian).

Got no quarrel with that, in theory. I think gays ought to have the same precise rights as the rest of us - but should not have MORE rights, or be "more equal" than the rest.

The immigration reform and soon to come Education reform are good things.

If, by "immigration reform" you are using code for amnesty, then it's NOT a good thing. You don't reward people who START OUT by breaking your laws with a citizenship, and if they've not broken law, then there is no need for an "amnesty".

I don't know what "education reform" is code for, so I can't address that, as to whether it's a good thing or a bad thing.

Ending the wars. Very important.

Yes, it is. I doubt he gets around to that, however. There's not much time in his agenda between bouts of shoving draconian "reforms" down the American gullet.

Avoiding war with Iran.

I may disagree there - I'm not sure. I'll avoid conflict with no one who really wants it. On the other hand, we should not be PURSUING conflict, either. There is a place between cowardly "avoidance" and aggressive "pursuit" that suits me.

Re-presenting a friendlier, soft power USA within a multilateral global framework - check.

?

What?

?

How does an obsequious approach to international politics equate to ANY kind of "power", "soft" or not?

And to top it off I think he's the right kind of Christian, from what I've seen and heard.

From what I've seen and heard, he's not ANY kind of Christian - nor is he any variety of Muslim, Buddhist, or Hindu that I've ever run across. The man appears to be entirely areligious, but that's not a bad mark against him - it doesn't matter to me what he believes. He hasn't been hired to run a church or masjid, but to operate a government.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Revealation

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Oh, I don't plan to argue with you. He won, you lost, and nothing you say matters any more.

Have a nice day!

Ah.

I see.

"Nothing we say matters any more" is precisely why the American people are upset with Obama.

And you, apparently, have signed on for that.

When they start ignoring what YOU say as well, don't be upset. After all, you gave it to the rest of us, so when it's your turn, don't whine. Rest assured that one day it WILL be your turn - what goes around, comes around.

Until then, you have a nice day, too!

reply to post by NewAgeMan

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Given that he is the leader of the country, and appears to want what's best for the American people, like economic recovery and a burgeoning and resurgent middle class, immigration reform, equal rights, education reform, etc.

Obama talks a big game but doesn't play it very well. He's only done one of those you listed...which is the economy. He pumped like 600 billion dollars into it to sustain it but it devalued the dollar. So to be blunt he hasn't really done anything. Except catch Osama Bin Laden but we all know he died a long time ago.

Maybe it's none of my business, but it appears to me that Obama was dealt a very bad hand in the post Bush/Cheney era, and that he's done the best he could with the resources available to him. You elected him with a majority of the vote and then re-elected him.

Yeah, whoever became president after Bush and Cheney inherited a complete mess. Bush ****** up this country BIG TIME, its not all Obama's fault. Obama was just brought in to fix the problems but I think they are beyond fixing.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

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I'm an American born and raised and I don't "get it" either. You're gonna get a lot of this kind of argument..." This's 'merica, we don't need no communist rule. We like our guns and welfare. That Obama ain't nothin' but a dirty terririst jihad tryin' to take my rights away!" But that's about all the supporting evidence they will give for their dislike of Obama and most of it will be misspelled. I wish you luck sorting through the hate speeches trying to find a calm and well reasoned argument...you are going to need it.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

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First, there is no collective salvation in the Bible. That is a notion that is put forth by James Cone and other Socialist/Marxist/Communist proponents.

Second, the values of the American people since the American Revolution have been for rugged individualism and liberty, not collectivism and Socialism and the Nanny State.

Third, why do you mock Jesus by posting a pic of him with a Santa hat? And you call yourself New Age?

Oh yah, and fourth, opposition to a lousy agenda, lousy politics, fraud, manipulation, and stealing from the public coffers, cronyism, appointing Communists to unelected positions, not to mention trampling the Constitution and our liberties, as well as drone killing in our names, assassinations of American citizens abroad, and detention without just cause or trial, is not hatred but common sense and righteous indignation which is completely founded on rational principles.
Just because you believe in Socialism and Collectivism does not mean we have to. I do not have to accept Obama trashing our country and our Constitution just because you don't understand it.

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