Is the Army worth joining.

reply to post by winofiend


You know I don't disagree with you but just because that is the way it is, and was, doesn't mean it's the way it always needs to be.

Furthermore, how many of those previous wars were 'righteous' in morality? Human morality that is. Wars aren't about that these days. Wars are over resources. Wars are over the government in charge, with the aim of replacing it with a government more sympathetic to the World powers ambitions...and access to resources.

Currently it is all corrupt. I want us to be invaded by an Alien species from outer space so we can get past these differences and work towards the bigger picture with the knowledge that the threat posed isn't towards our countries sovereignty, or our religious freedom, or our resources, but towards our species as a whole.

Originally posted by winofiend
You must be some sort of evil maniac with no heart and childrens heads hanging on you walls to want to be in the military.

Damn..

Refer to this post. Clearly anyone who can mutter the words 'I don't think I could shoot women and children' and 'Someone has to do it' is what one would define as border socio/psychopathic. To even contemplate it is crazy. There is no justification to the murder of innocent people, especially children.

You already know what its about and what may be asked of you. It has to come from you and you should not be swayed by anyone. Look at your neighbors, friends, family and ask yourself if they are worth fighting/dying for. Because thats what its really about.

IMO every man should do a tour.

reply to post by Snoopie


BTW whatever you choose good luck, and I hope it works out well for you mate.

reply to post by swimmer15


Not it's not.

Every war at the moment being fought by western countries has NOTHING to do with protecting their respective countries soil.

If the fight comes to my country, Australia, I will be part of the underground civilian army, fighting for my friends and family, for my children's futures. Not going to other countries fighting on their soil for reasons that aren't even truthful (WMD's in Iraq!!!).

That is NOT what these wars are about now. They're about resources.

I would rather be poor and righteous than rich and corrupt.

reply to post by LightAssassin


Do you not take up arms with your brothers, sisters, and neighbors to fight as one, for the same cause, under orders of the ellected officials they and you put into power? It is exactly what it's about! If you have issue with leadership than that's a leadership issue and a completely different topic.

I would hope he wouldn't consider it if he doesn't believe in his country and what it stands for.

Are you willing to hand over your conscience to your superiors? When you are signed up you are expected to obey orders whether you agree with them or not. Many people believe you will also face judgement for your actions one day, whether from God, gods or karma etc. SOmehoe I dont think :Iwas ordered to do it" will be an excuse.

reply to post by swimmer15


No, my brothers and sisters do not fight. We live a privileged life here in Australia away from the horrors of being a part of a continent in constant war, being invaded by Western governments, or western backed terrorists, for the sole purpose of destabilising the country and continent so a new government can be installed that will adhere to western government desires.

And, as mentioned, if my country IS invaded I will work with a civilian rebel guerilla force.

reply to post by LightAssassin


In America, it is often said that America has one of the greatest military forces in the world. That's why we're always stepping in to help other countries. When I hear this, it makes me wonder: if our country turns against us, who will step in to save us? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

reply to post by LightAssassin


Believe it or not I actually agree with you on your points but having served 11 years in the US military I feel that my service was good. I served next to some of the very finest my country and yours has to offer.I don't agree with war unless as a last resort, and i feel Bush and Chaney should have been brought up on war charges. That has little to do however with how I see the men and women I served with or my time in. I trained with many in the phillipine, Singaporean, Australian,Canadian to name a few and honestly I met and served with many great people. I assure you my views on the world and war changed considerably because my time in service.

And I'd do the same if we were invaded or had to fight against our own gov... Only difference is I'm likely better trained in all aspects.

reply to post by swimmer15


And please don't take my criticism of current and past war as complete criticism of the soldiers serving. I know there are good and bad soldiers. I know there are some that will refuse to fire on innocents and I know there are some that are good but in the heat of the moment are forced to make morally bad decisions, and then regret it for the rest of their lives to the point they commit suicide, much like many of the current US personnel who seem to be killing themselves more than being killed in war.

The OP has admitted that he 'doesn't think he could shoot women and children'. My statement would have been 'No matter what I will not shoot innocent women and children'.

We do need good people in the defence forces. The OP, after what he has stated, does not seem like one of them.

I appreciate your comments and viewpoint. Thank you.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


No-one will. Because the government will spin the media to make it seem like terrorists are attacking. Or some sort of chemical agent is causing people to go crazy.

You guys are armed. I would hope you all have enough sense to, along with the good personnel serving within your forces, fight that type of injustice.

reply to post by LightAssassin


I don't think they're ever forced to shoot innocents. It's usually an accident, or someone who isn't following orders. Being a mechanic in the Navy I never had that to deal with that. I never killed anyone personally, but I did indirectly kill everyone my aircraft did, my boat, my government. But then you are also responsible for indirectly killing those that OUR government kills.

We are all responsible for the acts of our government, as long as we are unwilling to act against them, and stop it.

As long as people support, and revel, in an economic system that uses the military to expand it's capitalist goals then no one is innocent.

Joining the military is a bad choice if you want to secure your future. Not only are you putting yourself at risk of ending up in a combat situation. Where you can be killed or severely injured. But you are also going to be endangering your physical and mental health and well being.

Countless soldiers have been used as guinea pigs and given experimental vaccines and other drugs that end up being harmful to them later in life. They are also exposed to cancer causing chemicals or other substances that cause illness and disease.

Then you might be exposed to situations that permanently impair your psyche. PTSD, depression, higher suicide rates and just trying to fit back into normal society are common problems that war veterans have to deal with. If you really want to join the military I would suggest the air force or navy.

Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by LightAssassin

 

As long as people support, and revel, in an economic system that uses the military to expand it's capitalist goals then no one is innocent.

Absolutely. I know to an extent I am guilty. So to counter that, I guess you could call it karma, I am somewhat of an activist. I can't escape my system but I can educate my children to what is really going on. I can attempt to educate my friends on the truths...and of course sharing my opinions here.

I could go all out but I would be branded crazy, or worse a terrorist, and leave my partner and children with absolutely nothing. For now I remain vocal in the hope it sways enough opinion to eventually make a concerted change.

reply to post by LightAssassin


Ha ! I think you get branded as a crazy just being a member here.

For criticisms; no worries. We can have different opinions, thanks for being respectful in voicing yours.

reply to post by LightAssassin


I hear ya, as the say in the States, there is not a lot we can do individually other than try to educate and hopefully make people aware of the reality of our economic system.

To make any real change takes a collective voice, and collective action.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Snoopie

 

Well there's your answer for you.

I suppose in the UK your chances of seeing combat are slim from what I know, so it will end up being a great educational contract for you.

~Tenth

Actually, the chances of UK soldiers seeing combat is probably higher than US soldiers. We have a much smaller army and we take more than our fair share of responsibility and casualties in Afghanistan.

Not that I think we should be there but that's a different subject.

To the OP - Make your own decision. If you want to do it that much you shouldn't need to ask for advice. If you go for it then you'll probably learn and develop more than if you were sitting at home on benefits, vegetating.

Dont do it OP. There are always other choices. Every strand of individuality will be taken from you. The wars you will be sent to fight have NOTHING to do with your love of Scotland. These are corporate wars, and you will be a pawn sent to kill at ther bidding.