Israel strikes Arms Depot near Damascus

reply to post by IndianaJoe


They're persistent contrails. They can happen anywhere when conditions are right. Even over the desert. They're in a high CAP, which means they're high enough to leave contrails. At this point there is apparently nothing going on but them orbiting, so why would they be releasing any kind of countermeasure?

reply to post by Zaphod58



Israel has unmanned secret aircraft called the Heron, which if deployed would likely produce the this kind of contrail. My fear is that this isn't a one and done, peek-a-boo attack, though Israel has a long history of such missions. If you were to invade enemy airspace and risk a war it would be prudent to lay the foundation for future incursions. These weapons systems are only highly effective when deployed for the first few times. It would make sense that if you were going to risk an immediate retaliation you would deploy assets that make such a retaliation impossible for a period of time and keep your attack window open as long as possible. Check out this article. Israel's (Secret) Attack Plan

You also may be correct that the Damascus video really doesn't show anything that abnormal, i'm not really sure though.

reply to post by IndianaJoe


The Heron is also not going to be deployed in this manner. They wouldn't fly three of them over hostile territory, and have them all fly together. The Heron is vulnerable to hostile fire, because it's slow. If you are going to deploy a UAV over hostile territory you're going to deploy a HALE system, not a MALE, which the Heron is. MALE UAVs are much more vulnerable because they operate within the envelope of anti-air systems. HALE UAVs operate much higher, and are much less vulnerable.

The service ceiling for a Heron is only just under 33,000 feet, and the max speed is only around 130mph. The envelope for an SA-17 is 46,000 feet, and supersonic. An SA-17 would have no trouble whatsoever with a Heron.

Originally posted by peponastick

21Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

John 4:21

More like self-fulfilling prophecies. This is why religion must most definitely be separated from government and state. We have enough crazy men in power who are religious and have religious tendencies.

If anything comes true from religious books, it is because it is self-fulfilling. Such "prophecies" are not true in themselves. Extremist muslims (and I would venture to include Iranian leader Ahmadinejad in this category) believe a great war must be had before the coming of the Mahdi and whatnot. Extremists Judeo-Christians think something similar in regards to the coming of the Anti-Christ/Jesus thereafter.

In short, we live in a planet of crazy people - America having one of the craziest where Presidents always make some silly reference to God and whatnot, as if it makes them seem good (personally, I'd worry when a leader of a country is religious or even has religious tendencies - because that really worked out with President Bush).

ok - propaganda out the window - I live in France and have been watching BBC, CNN and France24 for the West and Al Jazeera and Russia Today for the Mid East all day - all 5 have called Isreal's attack on Domascus "unprovoked". Does it matter if the target is Miliray research or a truck load of arms being exported? If it is a truck load of weapons leaving Syria for Lebannon - what is the difference in a truck load of arms leaving the US for Israel? Does this make the US a legitimate target? No!

This is all gearing up for a huge war - scary stuff. If the jews didnt have all the money... if the jews didnt run the world through their banks... if the jews werent so dammed paranoid, would the west put up with them? Another NO!

Israel run America, Israel run the West. israel are behind Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Mali, Syria etc etc because since the West "left" these countries they are in turmoil but het guess what...they all have shiny new banks - JEWISH OWNED BANKS! Whatever about M16s or -23s or whatever - who cares? Lets look behind the scenes and see what's really happening.... Rothschild is behind the whole thing and the US are just puppets on a string with Iran etc just extras - as for the UK......... they're just nobodies....

by the way - for all the aircraft / weaponry experts here - if the israelis flew in under the radar, why dont syria just lower the radar? or is that a stupid question?

reply to post by erebh


There are a number of factors that affect radar. This includes power of the radar set in question, weather at the time, terrain around the antenna, and the horizon. If you have a mountainous region, then unless you set your antenna up at the top of a mountain to look down, the mountains around the antenna will affect your beam, and block it from seeing things in the mountains. Even on the top of the mountain, anything down in valleys or on the back side of a mountain will be blocked.

The US used to have an antenna called the ROTH-b. It had a minimum range of something like 500 miles. It couldn't see anything closer than that because it bounced the radar beam off the ionosphere to look over the horizon. It was affected by atmospheric conditions a lot more than a normal radar would be though.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by erebh

 

There are a number of factors that affect radar. This includes power of the radar set in question, weather at the time, terrain around the antenna, and the horizon. If you have a mountainous region, then unless you set your antenna up at the top of a mountain to look down, the mountains around the antenna will affect your beam, and block it from seeing things in the mountains. Even on the top of the mountain, anything down in valleys or on the back side of a mountain will be blocked.

The US used to have an antenna called the ROTH-b. It had a minimum range of something like 500 miles. It couldn't see anything closer than that because it bounced the radar beam off the ionosphere to look over the horizon. It was affected by atmospheric conditions a lot more than a normal radar would be though.

I think Zaphod did a great job debunking the whole Damascus video and believe its far more reasonable that what the video shows is basic contrails from scrambled syrian jets. But I think there is a lot more to the story than Israeli planes simply "flying under the radar".

Some kinds of countermeasures, or advanced tactics, dependent on classified info regarding Syrian air defenses was obviously used in carrying out the attack. Breaching Syrian airspace was probably cake. I'm sure Syria's radar coverage is very porous due to terrain of the region and lack of modern radar installations in the syrian arsenal. The site itself, was a military installation who's whole purpose was to develop advanced weapons. The installation was a hard target and likely protected by fairly advanced missile systems from Russia or China. These missile systems have very capable independent radar arrays, which should have been capable of detecting most modern aircraft. Israeli pilots did more than just fly low. In my opinion that's an oversimplification of what happened. What particular tactics or technology was employed? I have no idea, but this was a complex military operation and Israel wouldn't have struck unless it knew it had an incredibly safe attack window.

As an example, during the the first Gulf War the US utilized an elaborate mix of countermeasures and tactics to lure Iraqi air defense sites to paint fake targets. US warplanes than locked on to the radar signals emitted from Iraqi radar stations and fired anti-radiation missiles to destroy those targets. In today's world of precision strikes and contained conflict, those tactics would be considered inappropriate. What Israel has achieved in recent strike missions in the region over the past decade is incredibly difficult and likely based on modern tactics dependent on advanced "secret" countermeasures.

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
If anything comes true from religious books, it is because it is self-fulfilling. Such "prophecies" are not true in themselves. Extremist muslims (and I would venture to include Iranian leader Ahmadinejad in this category) believe a great war must be had before the coming of the Mahdi and whatnot. Extremists Judeo-Christians think something similar in regards to the coming of the Anti-Christ/Jesus thereafter.

See this is where people don't understand how Islam and Christianity sort of come together.. What you are actually talking about above, works in together. Mahdi to Islam is like Jesus to Christians and according to Islam, Mahdi will point the Messiah out when he returns (Which is Jesus of course). The Antichrist will be here before the both of them. Mahdi is not the Antichrist and this is where Secular scholarship of Islam fails. They do not recognise Dajjal who is the Antichrist. So when Islamic people are talking about the return of Mahdi, they are actually talking about the return of Christ also. They go hand in hand whether people agree or not.

reply to post by erebh


Firstly, you only say you LIVE in France and NOT that you are French but as for your quote that the UK are nobodies who is it that has had to come and hold your hand in Mali? Firstly, our planes (yes ok, at least one broke down!) and now our troops?!

Why would you need help from noodies like us?

reply to post by thoiter


What a pitiful statement it is to see such an ignorant post get so many stars...

First, for your statement to have any credibility - logically speaking - you would have to draw a moral equivalence between a peace loving democracy like Israel and extremist Islamist organizations regarded by most democratic nations as terrorist organizations.

If you make this assumption, then, of course, Israels efforts to stymie Hamas' efforts to "liberate Palestine from the sea to the river" and Hezbollah's shi'ite fanatic intifada against Israel are all perfectly legitimate.

If that's the case, you are totally in left field. There are friends and there are enemies in this world. Friends are those whose interests converge with mine, and enemies are those whose interests oppose my own. Israel is a democracy: are you for democracy? Israeli Arabs live better in Israel than anywhere else in the Arab world. The Islamist terror organizations Hamas and Hezbollah both advocate a societal backwardness that sees the 7th century as a better model for a society than the 21st century. Are for women being forced to wear the Hijab? Are you for the curbing of free speech? Are you for the persecution of homosexuals? I can go on ad nauseum, Point being, there is simply no rationale for drawing a moral equivalence between Israel, who simply wants to exist unmolested, with aggressive and pugnacious terror organizations whose stated mission is to destroy Israel.

If Hamas ever seeks legitimacy, its gonna have to toss away the "destroy Israel" mantra, change it's charter (which would amount to editing away the "international zionism" comments and Quranic calls to destroy the apish Jews) and play by the rules of international law. As it currently stands, Hamas is a DE FACTO terror organization with explicit aims to annihilate another state.

Hezbollah on the other hand is a rogue organization that both acts as a political party yet refuses leadership lest Hezbollah be considered part of the Lebanese military. Hezbollah, despite the good it may do for Shia Muslims in Lebanon, is a surrogate army of Iran. As such, Israel's attack on an envoy transporting weapons designed to hurt Israel is fair game.

Only someone who truly seeks Israels destruction, who wants war, who doesn't want to see peace between Israel and it's neighbors, could treat Israels act of preemption here as bellicose and unjustified.

souljacker - I dont need anyone's help thank you very much - the Brits are nobodies, for years they waited to see what Reagan and the Bushes did and then asked if they needed there hands held. They haven't the balls to go anywhere without help - oh wait, with all their might they took over the Falkland Islands with a population of 3000 sheep! How brave!

With regards to Mali - the French went in there as part of the NWO, the Brits are again hand holding with their 300 part time troops loading cargo so get a grip on yourself. the Canadians went in with the french 2 weeks ago and the US also supplied help - at the rate of 20 million dollars a week! The French also put a blanket ban on all French journalists so we have no idea what is going on there. The frech once owned Mali and they ran out with there tail between their legs. Then they find oil... How do the French get Mali back on good terms? Make a boogie man - send in the so called Al Quaida - stir up some # - then go in and save the locals from Sharia Law... oh whoop de doo - like we don't know this?

And you think the Brits are the saviours of the world? They couldn't deven efeat the IRA... and you think they are going to save the world?

oops

reply to post by dontreally


+1 dontreally! I couldn't have said it better myself. Seems the twisted world wide media is either not telling the whole story or just slanting it enough to stir up islam's and the world's hatred of Israel. I say Hoo Ahh IDF, kick some a$$!

Russia is flexing her military force:

Lebanese sources later reported a Russian Mig-31 fighter had crossed over Sinai Wednesday in the direction of Israel. It veered west over the Mediterranean after encountering an Israeli warning not to intrude into its air space and continued flying over Lebanon. Military sources say that the only external military force in the eastern Mediterranean region is a fleet of 18 Russian warships, which includes landing-craft – among the largest in the Russian Navy – with 2,000 marines aboard.

Russia-slams-Israeli


This is not good.

Sirric

the world hates israel? I didn't know that... every country in the west seems to put with a lot of Israeli s**t including bringing us to the brink of world war.

having said that i'm just watching Al Jazeera and in particular, Ahmadinnerjacket - he says Iran's response may not be direct but they may help others... looks like he just chickened out and the Russians are very quiet on their threats too and as for the US - not a word although I bet the Obama has used up a ton of penny call phone cards today...

Siirc

Did I read that right? A russian plane headed for Israel, was warned to turn back? And it did turn back? Oh yeah, real show of strength Putin....

Originally posted by blockhead
reply to post by dontreally

 

+1 dontreally! I couldn't have said it better myself. Seems the twisted world wide media is either not telling the whole story or just slanting it enough to stir up islam's and the world's hatred of Israel. I say Hoo Ahh IDF, kick some a$$!

If the MSM started telling truth, Israel would be a wasteland within a week.

Originally posted by erebh
Siirc

Did I read that right? A russian plane headed for Israel, was warned to turn back? And it did turn back? Oh yeah, real show of strength Putin....

Whatever dude, unlike Israel, Russia may respect something called Borders.

reply to post by sirric


Are you serious?

Russia is not gonna go to war with Israel for Syria, especially considering the circumstances.

Again, IT WAS NOT A weapons research center that was attacked, but an envoy of trucks carrying weapons for Hezbollah to southern Lebanon.

The Syrians are obviously LYING about the target of the attack, because 1) transporting weapons from Iran to Lebanon through Syria is incriminating, 2) Syria, despite being involved in complicit dealings, still doesn't like that Israel had the backbone to strike inside their country.

This is like Israels attack on Syria's nuclear facility in '07. Because Syria was engaged in illegal actions, they were limited in their ability to respond.

Guilt and suspicion of guilt affects a states decision making.