Originally posted by superman2012
Sorry about that, I didn't mean to make you have an emotional response to that emoticon, it was only there to show that that is ridiculous to think
that the average soldier knows what is unlawful and lawful in the situation being discussed. I would expect that no one in charge (given the topic
that we are talking about, US soldier on US public violence) would be so obvious in trying to decieve their men/women. If that happened it would no
longer be about the law or not, but, about ethics, as you stated. Just as the servicemen that were urinating on corpses(one of many examples) were
not being ethical, I believe there would be quite a few that would join in quashing the rebellion by "terrorists" just because they are blinded by
their patriotism. Oathkeepers included.
edit on 30-1-2013 by superman2012 because: (no reason given)
edit on 30-1-2013 by
superman2012 because: spelling and clarification
Well, let me start by saying that your concerns are valid and logical. After all, when discussing the potential of an overreaching and abusive
government, it is quite logical to question the intentions and actions of those part of that government, the military included.
The military in the United States, in general, tend to be a conservative, pro-freedom, pro-Constitutional, duty-honor-country lot because that is the
sort of demographic that signs up for the military. The elitists distain military service. LIberals and the left distain military service. Statists
tend to distain military service and seek power in other governmental venues. Thus, I would suggest, that the military in general tends to be more of
a freedom (for American citizens at least) oriented organization than one would suspect.
Given that, we must also recognize that the military is also a microcosm of society in general. As such, we do have a large amount of "i only signed
up for college and or/benefits" crowd who don't care about anything as long as they can serve their hitch in one piece (although I would submit that
this group is much smaller in an all volunteer military than it would be among a draftee military). I also recognize that there are many people in the
military who would do anything to climb that ladder and get that next promotion no matter what it was. Anyone who has been chewed out by a First SGT
for not waering their reflective belts knows that the military has many people who are "by the book" "rules first and above all" types. They do
exist and there may be an even split between the idealists and the "corporate men" but IMHO, the idealists are a tad bit more commmon. I would
suggest that for every military person who would rape your grandmother in front of you if it meant a promotion, that there would be one or two people
who would stand by you and fight injustice.
As for lawful orders...this can get a bit tricky. We are taught to disobey obviously unlawful orders such as "shoot those women and children lined up
against that wall." Likewise, if an order comes down to fire for effect at grid coordinates 12324/4321 and that grid has women and children lined up
against that wall the guy shooting the cannon has no idea that this would be an unlawful order at all. There are a million potential scenarios in
between both examples.
Now, I know that Mai Lai is a case that people point to as an example of US military war crimes, but what people forget is that the massacre was
stopped by US troops. It was Hugh Thompson who saw what was going on, recognized it for what it was, and turned his weapons against Calley and his
guys and stopped the massacre. This is an example of an atrocity stopped by one military member by turning his guns against another...might I add that
Thomson, a Warrant Officer, was out ranked by Calley and Medina but he stood up to them.
Consider that this case is studied and gone over and over and over in every service academy, every OCS class, and every ROTC unit. It is held up as an
example of unlawful orders and the proper response to them. Awareness is much greater now than it was then when Thompson stood fast, said "hell
no!" and stopped the atrocity. With such awareness, I would suggest that many more soldiers now would resist such a thing that would then and even
back then soldiers stood up for what was right.
This sort of thing, especially after Katrina and Ruby Ridge, is discussed in barracks, wardrooms, O/E clubs, and on the back porch by military members
every day. We've thought about it. We've talked about it, and I think you would be surprised just how many members would come down on your side.