FACT CHECK: The Supposed "EO"'s Issued On January, 16, 2013.

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posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 


It created new powers, if it didn't what was its purpose? You tell me, what was the purpose of writing this memorandum?

If it doesn't DO anything, why waste time writing and SIGNING it?




posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 06:06 PM
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well in a sense they could always ask If they wanted, however you didn't have to asnwer, nor could they tell anyone if you did..

reply to post by kaylaluv
 

sure...U.S. Constitution


The fundamental right to privacy, guaranteed by the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U. S. Constitution, protects against unwarranted invasions of privacy by federal or state entities, or arms thereof


A patient's written consent is needed before a doctor can release any information about the patient

the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act also known as HIPPA governs the release of medical info, thus that is why you have to sign forms for records being release even from one Dr. to another..

now if you have some mental health issues, or make statements that would lead a Dr. to think you were a threat to others, then he could notify law enforcement..

But basicly...my RIGHT to privacy trumps everything



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by okiecowboy
well in a sense they could always ask If they wanted, however you didn't have to asnwer, nor could they tell anyone if you did..

reply to post by kaylaluv
 

sure...U.S. Constitution


The fundamental right to privacy, guaranteed by the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U. S. Constitution, protects against unwarranted invasions of privacy by federal or state entities, or arms thereof


A patient's written consent is needed before a doctor can release any information about the patient

the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act also known as HIPPA governs the release of medical info, thus that is why you have to sign forms for records being release even from one Dr. to another..

now if you have some mental health issues, or make statements that would lead a Dr. to think you were a threat to others, then he could notify law enforcement..

But basicly...my RIGHT to privacy trumps everything


And the president's memorandum/executive action has changed none of this.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by kaylaluv
 


It created new powers, if it didn't what was its purpose? You tell me, what was the purpose of writing this memorandum?

If it doesn't DO anything, why waste time writing and SIGNING it?


Seriously, I have to explain this to you?!? This was nothing but a feel-good, symbolic action on the president's part.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by kaylaluv
 


It created new powers, if it didn't what was its purpose? You tell me, what was the purpose of writing this memorandum?

If it doesn't DO anything, why waste time writing and SIGNING it?


Seriously, I have to explain this to you?!? This was nothing but a feel-good, symbolic action on the president's part.


Obama is tiptoeing around Congress because he knows he can be impeached for overreaching his authority. This stuff has to come as a Memorandum so as not to give anyone grounds for impeachment. In the meantime, he and Axelrod his Fellow traveler are using this as a method for conditioning people.

Can't put Commies in official positions, well then just make them unelected Czars, can't make an EO banning guns, well just make a Memorandum outlining your plans. Agenda 21 is a UN Trojan Horse because they couldn't force us to recycle and give up our electricity, they had to implement their ecoSocialism through local govts.
New York is the model for a police state with machines to zap anyone on the street they want with radiation while undermining the Constitution.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by kaylaluv
 


It created new powers, if it didn't what was its purpose? You tell me, what was the purpose of writing this memorandum?

If it doesn't DO anything, why waste time writing and SIGNING it?


Seriously, I have to explain this to you?!? This was nothing but a feel-good, symbolic action on the president's part.


Obama is tiptoeing around Congress because he knows he can be impeached for overreaching his authority. This stuff has to come as a Memorandum so as not to give anyone grounds for impeachment. In the meantime, he and Axelrod his Fellow traveler are using this as a method for conditioning people.

Can't put Commies in official positions, well then just make them unelected Czars, can't make an EO banning guns, well just make a Memorandum outlining your plans. Agenda 21 is a UN Trojan Horse because they couldn't force us to recycle and give up our electricity, they had to implement their ecoSocialism through local govts.
New York is the model for a police state with machines to zap anyone on the street they want with radiation while undermining the Constitution.


Obama is following the rules, regardless of why you think he's following the rules. A president is allowed to have memorandums, as long as they don't make or change existing laws. Other presidents have done them.

I am aware of your paranoid fantasies. Please spare me.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 


Agree completely! This was to make his voters on the left feel that he's doing SOMETHING to address the gun violence. I HOPE some of the items will bring some light to some of the issues, but nothing drastic is going to happen to gun rights.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 

I give up, just like the old saying..you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink..

I guess we should start informing everyone from the VP on down, the great news you just told me there, so all those congress members and senators etc..need to just calm down...Kaylaluv says nothing to worry about..

now where did I put Judge Napolitano's number...I can't wait to tell him he is wrong about this...


Have a nice day



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 


Calling me paranoid doesn't change what the Tyrant and his Fellow Travelers are doing. Spare me the Alinsky style rhetoric.

It's not just Obama. The previous Presidents have been doing things for the Shadow Govt too, it's just that Obama is more in our faces.

The ACLU complained so bitterly about the PATRIOT ACT when Bush was Prez, but like someone said, they are a Communist Front and only do what is convenient for their agenda.Where is the ACLU on NDAA? Oh wait they love Obama and his Leftist ideals. Where is the ACLU on the 2nd Amendment? Well fighting this Draconian stuff isn't going to help their cause because they are interested in undermining our culture and societal norms. This is why they will fight for gay rights but not gun rights. This is why they are defending the rights of illegal immigrants and people who believe in Sharia but not the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms.

Show me where the ACLU is defending our real liberties?
Obama knows that the dirty lawyers will create precedents with his memorandums.

Who would have ever dreamed that stupid people would allow a Draconian Mayor to dictate what size drink they can have?

Also, there is a tactic used in Agenda 21 called the Delphi technique used in meetings where policy is being devised and implmented, where people are made to feel that their opinion is basically a minority, that their opinion is different somehow from most other people on the issues. Rosa Koire describes this in her book and website on Agenda 21.

The same thing can be done on a large scale and I've noticed links on Google that suggest that polls say that over half of Americans are on board with Obama's memorandum and plans for gun control measures. This is essentially the same tactic being used by the compliant puppy press MSM who support Obama. They are literally trying to manufacture consensus and thereby get people to cave to peer pressure.
edit on 30-1-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 


Obama follows the rules?? He has broken so many rules no one can even keep track of them all... Of course his supporters don't notice, or they just defend his actions regardless of ethics or even morality, and even constitutionality..

He is probably the most scheming president in decades.. Everyone knows how radically he wishes to "change" America, so obviously his actions are going to be pushing the envelope, to put it mildly..

Any president that usurps the constitution like obama does, does not have any american's best interests in mind, not even yours or anyone that supports him, because those things can and will hurt everyone. He is like a pied piper leading his followers into the abyss of destruction, and everyone else to boot.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by okiecowboy
 



Originally posted by okiecowboy

In a reply to a letter I sent to sen. Jim inhofe....he also called them executive orders

So why are even the law makers calling them that?



IMO they are using the fallacious terminology for various reasons. One, they are human and exposed to the same rhetoric and propaganda that we are. Secondly, they serve their masters - the lobby. The NRA has a huge lobby, as do arms makers. If I were the owner of a company that made guns? I'd be of a mind to push the rhetoric for no other reason than free advertising and solidification of my customer base. It would simply be good business to want that. If I had a senator or two in my pocket? The better.

I also imagine that a few from the right simply use the exaggerated terms because it suits their long term goal of gaining control of the Government in the next election.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by TheNewRevolution
 




Originally posted by TheNewRevolution
reply to post by Hefficide
 


The believe that anything on that list will be considered as anything other than law in the near future is denial. When it becomes the norm for doctors to ask about yours guns and for mental health providers to turn over your details to the alphabet agencies at will, then we will see how much of a "memorandum" or "presidential letter" this really is.

I'm surprised people can still be this thick.


Your beliefs and opinions are simply that. Beliefs and opinions. They don't create or dictate fact. Thick indeed.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 08:03 PM
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I agree the "EO"'s were a bit anti-climactic. I kinda get the feeling that more substantial ones were in the works, but Obama correctly gauged the political winds. Nothing but rumor and innuendo to substantiate that feeling, but during the the speech he gave that day he did seem not quite his normal self.

Still I see no reason to celebrate or lower our vigilance because these "EO"s came out flacid instead of hard.

The anti-Second Amendment forces have no problems using made up terms like "assault weapons", purposely blurring the difference between semi and fully automatic weapons, and all the other mis and dis information they wish to accomplish their goals. I'd love to say that pro-Second forces should abstain from such, but I'm not sure they should.

I've seen an article on how the .gov could get thousands if not maybe even over a million of folks as banned from ever being able to buy a firearm again and maybe convicted felons to boot.

Look at question 11 e on ATF Form 4473

Then read this article from Fox


Yet the report found states with lengthy registries of medical ... ...... did not provide that information to the NICS system.


There is an blog about the issue here .

I've considered making a thread on it but don't really want to waste the time on something that would likely be 404'd.

First they cam for the ___ _______ but I said nothing because I wasn't a ___ _______ .
edit on 30-1-2013 by jefwane because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by jefwane
 


I see no problem with the question on the ATF form and wish to point out that the question is there already - it's not something that has been added since this debate began.

If I want to get a job bringing in shopping carts, while wearing an orange vest, at my local Wal Mart, for minimum wage - I have to take a drug test first. I think that drug testing for firearms licenses is far more applicable and rational than that.

Also, putting "EO" in quotations keeps the misinformation going. They are NOT EO's, plain and simple.

As for "assault weapon" being a made up term. I'd agree that it is not an overly specific term. But it is not one that has come into being recently. This Wiki page gives a reasonable overview of the subject.

FTR the first debate on this happened in 1934. History shows that they came for our machine guns and yet, nearly 80 years later on, we are still heavily armed and able to possess weapons.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 10:47 PM
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As far as whether or not a doctor can violate not only your privacy but HIPPA rules.... if any doctor (not just a shrink) has a patient who makes a credible threat of violence against another human being or against him/her self (via suicide), the doctor is not only allowed to report such thread, but is required to do so.

I believe that started as a way to curtail domestic violence, but I'm not sure about that.

As far as denying gun ownership to those who seek treatment for depression or other psychiatric disorders, one in four Americans will do so at some point during her/his life. One. In. Four.

In most cases, it's a short fix for a temporary problem, like too-deep grieving that is unremitting. Technically, for the period during which these people seek treatment, they are considered "mentally ill." (And we can discuss why and how the insurance companies participate in this labelling, but that's for another thread, I think.)

I am hoping the intent behind this Presidential Memorandum re: mental illness is to include ONLY those people who are making direct violent threats against another person. I'm not all that sure doctors will obey this, not because they are moral and upstanding people, but because they are afraid if they report some woman who owns guns and is threatening to shoot her husband and children, and she winds up losing her guns.... it's all too easy to get another one, and she might decide to take the doctor who reported her out first.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


So you didn't read my posted information from the attorney general that even though they are called memorandums or proclamations etc, they still carry the same legal weight?



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by wolfbitch
 


It's a long stretch between someone making a credible threat and reporting them to asking every patient if they have a gun in the home.

If I am ever asked this question my answer will be no and it's none of your business. If they think you are a threat, then report it and let the cops see if you own a gun.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Never mind all that, Obama care will usher in new things that strip us of personal freedoms and privacy we can only imagine at this point. The "memorandum" or whatever you want to call it is going to authorize information that should be strictly private to be relayed to (by the doctor who will become more or less on the governments payroll) whoever is deemed necessary by the federal government.

The move for the CDC to "research" gun control was not a pointless move, it was a passive aggressive way to take advantage of the new health care laws that most people are unfamiliar with at this time but will be come apparent soon enough.

Nothing is done without reason and this wasn't all for show. Call them memorandums, call them executive orders call them whatever you want, Ill simply call them tyranny.
edit on 30-1-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 11:16 PM
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Obama could have just signed the back of a Denny's menu. The one thing he did do was (once again) divide this nation.
He opened the oppourtunity for folks like Feinstein to submit their draconian versions of gun control.

Rich vs poor.
White vs black.
Gun vs no gun.

Always a divider. Always stirring the pot of hate.

I do find it encouraging, however, that despite his attempts at hate and division there have been calls (threads) here that promoted unity across all political spectrums.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
Obama could have just signed the back of a Denny's menu. The one thing he did do was (once again) divide this nation.
He opened the oppourtunity for folks like Feinstein to submit their draconian versions of gun control.

Rich vs poor.
White vs black.
Gun vs no gun.

Always a divider. Always stirring the pot of hate.

I do find it encouraging, however, that despite his attempts at hate and division there have been calls (threads) here that promoted unity across all political spectrums.


^^This^^ I support this post with all of my heart. It would seem to this citizen that this great republic of ours has never seen such a divide between it's citizens. That said, I don't think we have ever been through a period of history where the government has had the technology to incorporate mass propaganda before now.

Our media in this country is dead and buried. There credibility and accountability gone. There ability to report actual facts or even actual news has been eliminated and what we get is something you would expect straight out of North Korea.

I don't know what the hell is going on in this country but I know one thing and that is that not every American is asleep at the wheel. People who post on the NY times website who need the koolaid to survive and deal with every day life such as it is have a very real need to label everyone a "conspiracy theorist" if they don't fall in line with exactly what there told when there told and that my friends is a serious problem.

Citizens against citizens? Perhaps that is why the sweeping immigration laws are taking a front seat in executive legislation at present, if you let people who have no loyalty to the Constitution or roots grounded in the fundamental ideals in the founding of the United States and get them to move in en masse you begin to saturate the public with people who just don't care what the government does, there just happy they have a minimum wage job here in America.
edit on 30-1-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)





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