Ancient Bomb Shelters

I've got a question: If mankind blasted itself back to the stone age, and the only folks who survived were the ones who made it to places like Cheyenne Mountain, and other such bunkers, how long do you think the narratives of human society would last? A couple decades, or so, I think. Then, you'd have some bastardized chinese whispers version of history, passed on down through shadows and legend.

If 99% of humanity were wiped out, and the cities and achievements and all but their most hardy and resilient monuments were blasted away, I think you'd have a good starting ground for where we built our selves up from around ancient times. Somewhere around 20,000 B.C.

I think that mankind has been to this level of technological advancement before, and suffered such a catastrophic event that it wiped the record clean.

reply to post by Grifter42


"I think that mankind has been to this level of technological advancement before, and suffered such a catastrophic event that it wiped the record clean"

What have you read or seen, that gives you this opinion?

2nd line.




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If the cataclysm was caused by volcanism (ie: the earth folding in on itself and the surface becoming molten rock) -then there would certainly be no traces of past intelligent life remaining. The earth is indeed old, You never know I guess

reply to post by Grifter42


I get where you're coming from op, but maybe a little to far at the end there
I wouldn't go as far as saying they had iPads in our forgotten history
But when you consider civilisation develops and prospers around fresh water and as such many develop near the coast at a river capable to sustain it ( the bigger the river the bigger the potential ), or at the mouths of rivers.
we know sea levels have changed and erosion has taken place, so the many, if not most places of interest are under water

As you said if it happened today part of our story would become like a Chinese whisper through the millennia

Like the tales from the bible ?

Originally posted by Neocrusader
reply to post by Grifter42

 

As you said if it happened today part of our story would become like a Chinese whisper through the millennia

Like the tales from the bible ?

edit on 29-1-2013 by Neocrusader because: Added

Now you're speaking my language. Yes, like the bible. And other books of such nature. Many religious texts carry similar tales of catastrophic earth shaking events. Like the Great Deluge myth. I believe these events probably had some sort of backing in reality, as they're present independently in cultures that are separated geographically.

The biggest problem today that would doom the survivors is that most people have no idea what so ever how things are built, how to maintain tools or even repair stuff.

I watched a video on how microchips are made and the thing that stuck me was the workers in the clean room loaded supplies in a machine and pushed a button on a screen. I know that there was an engineer somewhere that designed the chip, created the masks and programed the machines the worker bees were using. As well as suppliers of blank silicon wafers and chemicals.

The problem with that is the engineers, at that level at least, were probably in a design center in a big city area with a big bulls eye on it.

I have a friend who manufactures netting for the shrimping industry and had to buy machines from overseas, I think Japan. I watched that fascinating machine pull in twine, tie hundreds of knots every few seconds and spit out netting. Someone or a group of someones, a whole lot smarter than me built it.

I think that survivors, in the 6-10,000 years it took to reach our level of technology again, would find a lot of the old structures gone or be viewed like we view the pyramids and Atlantis today.

I guess that scene from one of the matrix movies where the elder shows Neo the sub levels and says something like, I know this has something to do with our air and water but I don't know how it works, sort of says it all.

reply to post by Grifter42


I think you're right. The only monuments or megalithic structures left around the world are all stone. It's the only thing that can stand the test of time. Let's imagine that our ancients did have airplanes and cars or something similar. By now there would be nothing left of these structures after the weather and erosion consumed them. This would have happened quickly and most likely after a thousand years these objects would be no more. Knowledge to rebuild would also be quickly lost.
I can drive and work on a car but I can't build one from scratch. I'm not talking about assembling one but rather building one from the ground up as in gathering the right ore's and plastics and building parts from molds. How many people can? If a cataclysmic event came and wiped out a large portion of society how long would it be before we had no more working vehicles today? After a couple hundred years who ever was left would most likely be clueless on how the vehicle even operated. They wouldn't even know how to refine the fuel to run them. After a few more hundred years they would only be fantastical stories about them as all the vehicles would have rusted and eroded back into the Earth.

This is why I think we are left piecing history back together now.

Originally posted by Grifter42
I've got a question: If mankind blasted itself back to the stone age, and the only folks who survived were the ones who made it to places like Cheyenne Mountain, and other such bunkers, how long do you think the narratives of human society would last?

1 thinks it depends on how well the inner EA*RTH inhabitants and the New Coming potentials from the old above world (smh) interact- hopefully with better levels of respect then FEAR ect.

LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******

reply to post by Grifter42


The premise here is plausible. As the poster above me mentions, the vast majority of things would have totally disintegrated within 1000 years, and for many things, long, LONG before that.

For instance I saw some article a couple years ago about old CDs only after 20 years or so are now beginning to disintegrate, and its worrying some collectors.

But I dont think humanity blew itself away last time... there would be still be radioactive markers of the event/s. If they reached our level of technology right now, and were at least equally emotionally/spiritually primitive and bent on conquering and dominating or else murdering each other, most likely I would say a manufactured or weaponized fatal virus with a long gestation period was probably the culprit. Released either accidentally or on purpose in a major transit hub, it would be spread around the world in several days, and in a week or two most of the global population would have it, and it would be too late.

It would be foolish to believe the archaelogists time lines....They have been caught cheating too many times already......
The earth is four billion yrs old.....what kind of things could civilisations leave to weather such ages....
Already, our species is traced back to Africa 250,000 yrs to the first Eve.....(mitochondrial anyways)
Civilisations have existed that we are just discovering from satelite photos...
Like the Canal builders of the US east coast...who made the canals that run from texas to new york and all over the east coast......

Every civilized being in whatever kind of societies knows that to survive” most disasters” is to get cover inside the caves (best disaster protections/ shelters in the whole planet).

Since I was a kid I always was busy with the thoughts of those (cave painting), to me they are exactly like those (pictograms) we use for information, if they looks clumsy is because they weren’t painted by adults but by the survived kids.

No elders..?? no guidelines, hence we had and still have to re-inventing things again or perhaps again again, we are not dealing with real “inspirations” in our everyday life and technological/culturally advanced communities. Those are coded in our brains/soul/spirits/DNA etc. kicking time to time to reminding us what we were before SHTF.

As example: Friedrich August Kekulé

“ The new understanding of benzene, and hence of all aromatic compounds, proved to be so important for both pure and applied chemistry that in 1890 the German Chemical Society organized an elaborate appreciation in Kekulé's honor, celebrating the twenty-fifth anniversary of his first benzene paper. Here Kekulé spoke of the creation of the theory. He said that he had discovered the ring shape of the benzene molecule after having a reverie or day-dream of a snake seizing its own tail (this is a common symbol in many ancient cultures known as the Ouroboros or Endless knot).



en.wikipedia.org...

I'm sure that this is a legit idea. Many people share the idea that there was at least one advanced civilization out there. I have dug up old metal tools that were only about a hundred fifty years old and they were just chunks of rust resembling the shape of the tools. The conditions of the spot accelerated the breakdown of the pick and other stuff that I found. I'm sure in a thousand or more years the metal would break down unless in a protected area. Survivors would have taken any tools out of their underground living chambers when leaving as the weather allowed them to.

reply to post by Grifter42


I agree completely. I am still doing some reading for a thread I made and am still working on that states just that. It is a daunting task to say the least. There is a real conspiracy when it comes to proving it though. A real cover up.

I went to the library of congress site for old newspaper articles for example. First of all they dont have the newer editions. OK......I think they end in like the 70´s....fine. Then If you try and cross check something you may find on another site about an article for giant skeletons or luminous crafts being found or witnessed they will have EVERY day before and after the one day that article mentions the find or a sighting. You can just forget about finding any reports statements or logs....OR THE FINDINGS...

IMO the theory of evolution is a complete lie. Evolution may happen but the little scale of evolutionary progression we are fed is just retarded. Nice and neat, but retarded.

I am just about done with proving my theory with the available genetic evidence. I still have to cover linguistics and the spread of a global language. I dont know how well that will go...but.... When I get to Archaeological evidence it all dries up. Things go missing, get omitted and all traces edited. Out of 10 separate articles about giant skeletons, and other evidence of advanced technologies only 3 were available on the library of congress site out of all the cited examples I found. I would like to confirm the examples and provide a link to the original articles from the archives. The only ones I could do so for as of now were from the late 1800´s / early 1900´s......I mean come on....

I dont want dis-info photoshop examples from lame sites. I want the articles about respected archaeologists "finding and saying" BEFORE there was an organized effort across academia to cover it all up.....Give me a break....IMO it shows the extent they will go to just to hide the inconvenient truth of the matter.

Also as far as evolution, they push cro-magnon as a direct aspect of our own stage in evolution. Modern man....

YET the available information of things like their teeth so we can compare them to neanderthal, the great apes and us are scant to say the least. Scholarly studies on Musculature, genetic analysis, all their identifying attributes are all explained in their opinion....their theories..... BUT ...all the source material seem to be REALLY hard to find. You may find them referenced but you can hardly get more than snip its from them. We are forced to assume cro-magnons are in fact JUST like us and so our direct link in progression. From what I have been able to see that is not the case.

The whole theory of evolution goes bunk with neanderthal being in fact more "evolved" then cro-magnon and may more so than us....RACIALLY, we say neanderthal are ugly and so "must" be dumb....they "look" primitive...Well, that is racist....in the truest sense of the word. WE want to be the pinnacle of evolution. That is all. What came before "modern man", had nothing to envy from us.

What I also found is that cro-magnon are probably less "evolved" then neanderthal, but academic bias attributes the artistry to be theirs (cave paintings) Sophistication they say... Their culture, as far as I can tell, was less socially and technologically evolved than neanderthal. Many of the sites they "painted" (as if that makes you smarter some how) were neanderthal ancestral sites. How they can tell that a modern man drew or made something and not an archaic man is beyond me. Academia attributes them all these components to the theory that justify the accepted THEORY, while ignoring the rest of the hominids and evidence.

Until recent findings were available they had EVERYTHING wrong about the complexity of neanderthal.

What I am getting at is that a "modern" human is not as smart as we think and "primitive" hominids are not as dumb as we think. I say most of what we "know" is WRONG. Going off that, all the "debunked" stuff needs to be re-evaluated due to signs of interference and foul play.

There most certainly was a highly advanced GLOBAL culture, and it collapsed after some sort of catastrophe or series of them. We are a SMALL part of what survived that world, that came much later, during its death spirals and were allowed to do so as that worlds legacy. By that cultures grace and for the sake of life, we were given a chance when we really deserved none. We are the savages......

Modern archaeology is up to something, willing or not, that hides this fact. IMO it is just to show face. The religion of science. It is just like the church denying the solar centric model of our solar system and punishing those that by virtue of the truth were compelled to say "screw that, what you are saying is a lie"....earth is round, the sun is the center, and cave men did not walk out of caves all of a sudden to build pyramid "tombs" in the blink of a historical eye........

Originally posted by undinemyth
reply to post by Grifter42

 

"I think that mankind has been to this level of technological advancement before, and suffered such a catastrophic event that it wiped the record clean"

What have you read or seen, that gives you this opinion?

2nd line.

edit on 29-1-2013 by undinemyth because: to add op quote

There are ancient Sanskit texts that talk about a huge war between cities with flying machines and weapons used that are eerily similar to descriptions of nuclear weapons and diseases afterwards similar to radiation sickness.

Originally posted by Grifter42

Originally posted by Neocrusader
reply to post by Grifter42

 

As you said if it happened today part of our story would become like a Chinese whisper through the millennia

Like the tales from the bible ?

edit on 29-1-2013 by Neocrusader because: Added

Now you're speaking my language. Yes, like the bible. And other books of such nature. Many religious texts carry similar tales of catastrophic earth shaking events. Like the Great Deluge myth. I believe these events probably had some sort of backing in reality, as they're present independently in cultures that are separated geographically.

The Bible was written 100-400 years after the events took place. Ask anyone today to describe events of the early 1900's, even with photographs and written records, it's hard to piece together much of history at that time as to what really happened.

If you would like to read a good fiction book about how the sudden loss of the majority of the human population would effect subsequent generations I recommend:

www.amazon.com... EARTH ABIDES

Basically, is a post plague situation with a 98% mortality type thing. The author takes you through the possible effects and how in less than 3 generations we go back to hunter gatherers with no real time for reading and writing.

I am not the author, nor am I affiliated with the book in any way so I hope this doesn't violate the T&C.

Just thought I'd throw it out there in case you were interested. Most libraries have a copy since it is fairly old 1949.

ETA: I think basically the point he was making is that since the majority of the people left would be ordinary and not know how to make or replace the items they can come to rely upon once the ability to scavenge was lost and no one knew how to make anymore of the things they need that we'd be reduced to an uneducated hunter gatherer society in short order.... Widespread literacy, reading, writing, education and such are fairly recent consequences of our ability to specialize and not spend the majority of every day hand to mouth.

In my area and the majority of people I know hunt and are mechanically inclined.
I have also been collecting books on engineering ,gardening,what plants you can eat, and other crafts like wood working and knitting.
My favorite one is the moonshine making book,I have to go find it,but there would be some good trading for that.

Knowledge and adaptability is key to survival.

reply to post by Golf66


Holy moly,
For all those reading this thread, I strongly recommend "Earth Abides'.
It is one of the most Influential works of modern science fiction.
Written in the mid/late 40's its premise is a plague that spreads by air travel.
The most fascinating part is how the second and third generations of survivors build a mythology around everyday items from the first generation
That story was the basis for the '70's movie, " The Omega Man" and " I am Legend"

I have spent much time thinking on this subject. Since I was a small child I have studied rock layers and the things in rocks. Most people who think on this subject will never spend close to the hours I have put into it.

What have I concluded? Well, it seems everyone thinks we were this advanced before. There is a very little evidence for that. So little I could hold it all in one hand. But still, everyone "knows" we have been here before.

I think we were. But not here on Earth. I have concluded that most of mankind came here from another planet at least as advanced as we are now, if not a bit more advanced. We came here and found humans here. Not humans like most in civilized society, but human nonetheless. We came here, a few thousand of us and taught those human "animals" how to build and how to make agriculture and how to plan. Either our ships left without us or we sent them into the sun of something. But we came here with not much more than memories. A few tools and keepsakes and a lot of knowledge. We used that knowledge to build great monuments and to spread cities around Earth.

The high tech tools were worn out in time, the parts used for knives and other things. Which in turn wore out leaving only a very few artifacts.

It is impossible for there to have been any civilization on Earth as advanced as we are now. Utterly impossible. The earthworks would remain. The remains would still be here. Transportation networks, mines, earthwork, and debris would be everywhere. There would be trash. Man makes trash. As a child I went with my father hunting indian artifacts. They are everywhere. I mean everywhere. I have found artifacts here in my own yard. Humans leave trash. Advanced humans leave advanced trash.

50,000,000 years from now when Africa rebuilds the Appalachian mountains there will be strange rocks in the sediment layers. Rocks full of glass, iron and carbon. Layer after layer of it. Those layers will be thrust out of the ocean and folded into mountains. Those rocks will be tell tale evidence of our being here. At the same time there will still be satellites in orbit around Earth. Our lunar probes will still be there as will the footprints of astronauts.

Had we ever been this advanced before the evidence would be everywhere. It is not. But there are objects which seem to say we have. Those objects were brought here. Brought here by the same men and women who settled here and conquered the planet.

If the evidence was there I would know it. No one you will ever meet has spent more time looking than I have. It does not exist.

reply to post by Robonakka


have you explored the oceans? You know the area that covers 70+% of the planet?....and like you said...have you cut every mountain in half or just scratched the surface of a few...

I understand what you are saying but fail to understand how you think you have any form of conclusive evidence wither way?

There is evidence of coral reefs at much lower depths than they can form in the pacific, which could only happen if the entire tectonic plate shifted and dropped to their current depths.

also the crust is constantly renewing itself, the dates we are talking about are so far back that entire kilometers of mountains can be added, and entire sections of crust can be renewed....so....

I will continue to use logic when looking at the surmounting available evidence that points to just what we are talking about. Will it ever be PROVEN....maybe not, but I dont know how my car works, yet can still use one....

A good theory that is based on as much available evidence can be useful. As it is that we have no clue what our origins are, I will continue to look for a more local answer.

"Aliens did it", is a modern form of "god did it".....takes faith.....

I believe they have to exist, mathematically proven, yes.....but I wont jump the gun and credit them as our benefactors without sound PROOF of such since we dont have proof they did. We have evidence of advanced cultures, HUMAN cultures....that we do.

IMO the "gods" are a former inhabitants of the planet which came from said advanced culture.

They are probably neanderthal...whom we ignorantly and without a grain of sound evidence sentenced long ago to be histories "stupid" people. The more evidence we find, the more clear it all becomes.

They fit all the characteristics of having come from an advanced culture which degraded into hunter gather survivalists, but that is another story.....


EDIT:
Also, another explanation of how the coral reefs in the pacific and else where formed at depths that is impossible for them to form at, and for the global flood stories, as well as other oddities such as larger plants and animals in prehistory, rumored "giants" and the such, is

that a global canopy of water vapor which formed part of our atmosphere collapsed, and so mixed the "waters of heaven with the waters of earth"....the biblical firmament. This layer formed a sort of bubble around our planet which acted like a hyperbolic chamber on a global scale. It allowed more oxygen to be absorbed with greater ease and so less energy was spent on breathing allowing for greater sizes. Lab experiments with insects born and raised in hyperbolic chambers produced Prehistoric sizes, huge insects....there is evidence of it also producing longer life spans.....remind you of anything...biblical...

if there is written record of this then there were people around to see it. Much of what the biblical characters talk about in the first texts of the world are handed down from older cultures and are about much older peoples than the ones we think the stories are about...like us teaching the bible now....

also worth mentioning is that this layer of the atmosphere may be what was referenced by the Sumerian Annunaki trying to repair their planets atmosphere....or IMO trying to repair the damage to themselves which they incurred after this enhancing layer failed. The gold being gathered by humanity may have been for ingestion to counter act the sudden loss of their former biological glory. The mythical, "ambrosia"..food of the gods....

P.S.----ambrosia not to be confused with mana, which was probably algae produced from an algae machine /tank harvester stolen from Egypt along with the Ark...