The Breakdown of Traditional Relationships and Marriage.

reply to post by Realtruth
I my opinion I think it's become like everything else commercialized and disposable.

Although I believe in marriage I think it should be more of a private affair,just family.These huge weddings are a waste of money especially when more times than not end in divorce.
by the way I've been married for 24years...

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Thank you.

Talk about looking at the past with some serious coke bottle thickness rose colored glasses.

Previously, they were not out of love, but out of contract. They were arranged by families for political reasons.

Also, it was taboo or even illegal for a woman to leave a terrible marriage. They were shunned in the world for being single women, instead of being at home making babies.

That isn't love.

Now women have a choice.

Being married for love is a fairly modern concept.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

Thank you.

Talk about looking at the past with some serious coke bottle thickness rose colored glasses.

Previously, they were not out of love, but out of contract. They were arranged by families for political reasons.

Also, it was taboo or even illegal for a woman to leave a terrible marriage. They were shunned in the world for being single women, instead of being at home making babies.

That isn't love.

Now women have a choice.

Being married for love is a fairly modern concept.

I agree with this comment about women not having choices back then, but it's a different world today and they are not shunned, nor are they victims.......so they do have choices today.

Laws do need to be adjusted to suit everyone per the modern world.

The concept of marriage IMO is based on an old and faulty system.

reply to post by Realtruth


This is the problem. You all fall to the divorce propaganda machine. Divorce is a business too.

w many American marriages end in divorce? One in two, if you believe the statistic endlessly repeated in news media reports, academic papers and campaign speeches.

The figure is based on a simple - and flawed - calculation: the annual marriage rate per 1,000 people compared with the annual divorce rate. In 2003, for example, the most recent year for which data is available, there were 7.5 marriages per 1,000 people and 3.8 divorces, according to the National Center for Health Statistics


But researchers say that this is misleading because the people who are divorcing in any given year are not the same as those who are marrying, and that the statistic is virtually useless in understanding divorce rates.

New York Times

"It's a very murky statistic," says Jennifer Baker, director of the marriage- and family-therapy programs at Forest Institute, a postgraduate psychology school in Springfield, Mo. She's often erroneously credited with arriving at the 50% figure; it was around long before she used it. Figuring out divorce rates is tricky. Not all states collect marital data, and the numbers change dramatically depending on the methods and sources that are used. In the end, the best that researchers can do is look for trends within a specific group or cohort (say, all people who married in the 1980s) and project what will happen. As Baker says, "It's very difficult to know, if a couple gets married today, whether they'll still be married in 40 years."

time.com

reply to post by nixie_nox


I don't think many people need statistics to understand that divorce is prevalent, and without marriage there would be zero divorce, thus no need for the "Old Mentality" that it's a scarlet letter, on men or women.

There are plenty of long term relationships that end and divorce is not needed because they are not married, nor is it part of a state, church or legal records.

See where I am coming from on all of this.

We seem to yurn for validation on everything we do in life, thus needing degrees, certificates, papers of all sorts but in actuality they mean very little, and many times represent a false sense of security.

It should be about community. Let's not even call it marriage. The situation I find myself in currently involves my wife, exwives, old lovers. It's not about sex per se, it's about helping, support, caring, for the core group friendship and freedom. Yes at times it gets complicated and I go fishing for a week or two; invariably when I return, it's back to normal. Mutually beneficial lifestyles can be tricky!! You would be amazed at the number of households living in what used to be called communal situations. Economically it make perfect sense.

In my rental there is a couple, two brothers, two mothers and one ex husband. weird!

reply to post by Realtruth


It is still not quite as easy to leave as you think. Especially since the earning wages are nowhere near equal, and neither are the opportunities.

For those that do divorce, I think the problem is a little more complicated then any one issue.

I think a good part of it is that people are totally unprepared for marriage. They are given Disney ideas that you fall in love and live happily ever after.

They don't get told that therea re different stages of love. From puppy love to deep, secure love. They think that if you are not embracing everyday and singing accolades to your partner, that it is over.

How many people do you see come on the relationships board and say "we have been together for a year and now I think the relationship is ending."

All they did was transition from the obnoxious needy crush stage to the more secure stage where you don't have to obsess about each other every minute.

They don't know that there are times that you are not going to like your spouse, or get bored. And that those times you have to work through.

The biggest problem is the very stupid notion of "you complete me". That they give their partner a massively huge responsibility of making them happy.

ONly you can make you happy.

No relationship should ever be two halves making a whole, it is two complete people sharing a life together. Which means that you have to love yourself, and have your own friends, ideas, and hobbies that interest you outside of the marriage

It is not because people are not taking it seriously enough, it is that they are expecting too much.

reply to post by Realtruth


You can't disregard the facts by making a broad statement that it is prevalant, when I am responding to your post that you used statistics in. That was a copout to ignore the true facts.

It is not 50%. 50% would be pandemic proportions. The actual 25-30% is a far smaller number.


Some people see it as more than a piece of paper. It is a ceremony in front of family and friends to validate their love.

The certificate is just part of the process.

I won't touch degrees because that is a whole nother thread.

I think the nuclear family was once the seed of our communities in the US, but times are changing, and people are choosing to adapt as they best see fit.

It seems that if you are virtuous, marriage is the best path. The poorer the character, the higher the chances of divorce.

From the statistics provided, single individuals beat out widowed, divorced, and separated individuals in quality of life, but lose out to the successfully married.

So basically, if you can't find a decent partner, and are not well rounded, it seems best not to get married. If you are conscientious and intelligent enough to pick a decent mate, and be decent to them, it just seems like the best, and most practical partnership to go about life, and building a family.

I don't much care to debate this. While I'm throwing in a little facts, it's mostly just my opinion. My upbringing has influenced my opinion on the matter, and I accept this.

The roles of men and women in marriage seem to have become very blurry for kids coming up in today's society.

TV and movies make it seem like true love can overcome any obstacle. But in real like it's a lot harder to overcome all the baggage that people bring into relationships.

Do you want to marry your partner if they have kids with someone else? It worked for the Brady bunch but how about you.

You find out your partner was involved with lots of people during college but they've changed. Do you believe it?

Your partner is very involved in social media and seems to have lots of friends, is that threatening?

Life is a series of challenges and it gets harder all the time. I know a lot of men who don't seem the least bit interested in marriage anymore.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Realtruth

 

You can't disregard the facts by making a broad statement that it is prevalant, when I am responding to your post that you used statistics in. That was a copout to ignore the true facts.

It is not 50%. 50% would be pandemic proportions. The actual 25-30% is a far smaller number.


Some people see it as more than a piece of paper. It is a ceremony in front of family and friends to validate their love.

The certificate is just part of the process.

I won't touch degrees because that is a whole nother thread.

Facts and statistics are just what other people compile and what I posted in my OP.

Now from my own perspective I just need to look around me, and use logic to see that more than half the people I have known all my life are divorced, thus leaving me with the original stats as a true indicator.

I personally don't need statistics to tell me that relationships are failing on epic proportion levels.

People both men and women work, work, work, then come home only to have to work at their relationships too and take care of a family. No wonder we are dysfunctional as a society, because there is no time to connect with the people we are suppose to love and care for.

Like I said the old system of marriage was set up for a completely different time, thus one person was always there for the children. In today's world, this is all but a long lost fantasy.

So I don't see anything I said as a cope out.

reply to post by Realtruth

Originally posted by Realtruth
Now from my own perspective I just need to look around me, and use logic to see that more than half the people I have known all my life are divorced, thus leaving me with the original stats as a true indicator.

But is divorce a "bad" thing? I don't think so. I was married at 16 and divorced a year and a half later. It was my first love. And we had a great relationship. In fact, we entered the lawyer's office hand-in-hand, friends and knowing that we both wanted the same thing. To break up.

I don't see divorce as a failure, necessarily. I don't think it means relationships are failing. People just aren't as willing to "put up with" differences that are only discovered after a year or so of living together.

Don't get me wrong, when people have relationships and children, then break up with anger, venom and hatred, that's bad, but marriage is not to blame.

Originally posted by Ghost375
It's a tradition that's been around for ages. It's the foundation of civilization as we know it. Saying we don't need marriage is just ignorant of sociology, psychology, and human culture.

yeah, many people today are getting married before they should be, and that's a problem. BUT it doesn't mean marriage is the problem.

hmmm.......traditional marriage back in the 19th centruy was hardly a "foundation of civilization as we know it"

"coverture" was the law of the land as late as the 19th century
en.wikipedia.org...

apparently for the woman, it wasn't civilized at all

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


BH I agree many times it's not a bad thing and not any different from a long term relationship ending, especially young marriages. My point is that "Divorce" seems to be deemed as a scarlet letter many times.

On the other hand, when children are involved and one parent is left with the kids, while the other parent wants to relive their youth and wants divorce then it's a bad situation. The kids are the one's that actually suffer the most.

I don't believe that most people marry just to get a divorce, but when things get mundane, ugly, and not fun they want to run instead of looking within and seeing the problem is not just the other person, but mostly with themselves.

Admitting to oneself that they may be a major catalyst in the demise of a relationship is not something today's self-centered society is about.

Mutual attraction brought the two people together in the first place and they both made the choices to be together.

Oh wait! "For better or worse" "Sickness and in health"

Attitudes toward marriage have always been romanticized. Except for my step dad may he RIP who commented when I expressed reservations about my first marriage. "Don't worry about it kid, first couple marriages are just practice"

What's strange is that I love my exwives much more now than when we were married. American culture is [snip] up.

Originally posted by olaru12


Attitudes toward marriage have always been romanticized. Except for my step dad may he RIP who commented when I expressed reservations about my first marriage. "Don't worry about it kid, first couple marriages are just practice"

Awesome!

The irony in that statement is profound, because of today's ideals.

People that have wonderful marriages are going to have them regardless of laws, paper, or anything else.

Probably, maybe

I am not saying marriage is required for a long term monogamous relationship. Not at all.

I think you're being unfair because you undermined the people that have good marriages. You specifically said today they have broken ideals. All encompassing.

just live together they deserve the same rights as those that are married.

So this thread is really about the benefits society gives marriages? I'm not going to address that myself, I will concern myself with other aspects. Aspects I can understand and relate to based on experience. I have never been married, or close to marriage. Only intimately observed other successful marriages. So I don't know the logistics tax benefits, etc, etc.

Why demonize or exclude those that choose to be together without the throws of marriage?

Is that a general question or one to me?

Because I am not demonizing non-marriage relationships at all. I fully accept the understanding people can be in wonderful long term monogamous relationships without being married.

reply to post by Realtruth

Originally posted by Realtruth
On the other hand, when children are involved and one parent is left with the kids, while the other parent wants to relive their youth and wants divorce then it's a bad situation. The kids are the one's that actually suffer the most.

Agreed. But that can happen outside of marriage.

I agree completely with the rest of your post.

Given the fact the every one of us is constantly changing and evolving at every infinite moment, how can anyone say with certainty that they will be with someone and love them the same for the rest of their lives? I would not want to lie to someone and promise them these things that I really have no way of knowing as it is so far in the future and therefore does not technically exist. I think that is why we see so many divorces is because many think they will always be the same person that they are in that moment of making their vows and it is not so. Same physical body, yes, but a constantly differing consciousness.

I say if you are happy with someone in the moment, then just cherish that, enjoy that, do not try to hang on to it forever when you clearly see this "moment" slipping away. You are doing your partner and yourself a disservice.

Originally posted by InfinitePerspective
I say if you are happy with someone in the moment, then just cherish that, enjoy that, do not try to hang on to it forever when you clearly see this "moment" slipping away. You are doing your partner and yourself a disservice.

You have a lot of wisdom in your words.

I wish more people thought like you.