25,000 Year Old Buildings Found In Russia? The Mysterious Dolmens And Megaliths Of The Caucasus

reply to post by MarsSentinel


which story do you prefer is all very well, but historical research aint about making up stories, it is about examining the evidence in it's various forms.

megaliths exist all over the world, often in situ with the tools used to make them, and usually bearing the marks of those tools.... its just that non archaeological shows/books etc dont mention that, i guess it destroys their "story"

these sites are not 25k yrs old either, all the reliable evidence points at around about 3k yrs, read the thread etc for this info or remain in the dark i guess.

as for ancient rope, a few examples have been found, but naturally these things do not survive well in the archaeological record, though we do have a few... i believe oetzi's kit has some *comparable* items... however, from studying modern "primitive" groups we can see that cordage is very widely made in such groups, and many historians, anthropologists and archaeologists agree that the ancient world was basicly held together with string! combine many peices of string in the same method that the individual strings were made and you have rope, similar to how rope for sails was made in rope-walks a couple of hundreds of years ago
.
i have made string and rope myself m,any times, and with practice and sharing knowledge with other practitioners, it becomes an easy art (you dont even need to look at what you are doing in the end, you can just chat by the campfire and turn out string), and the results are highly practical and durable.
modern native american women who practice the art are said to be able to produce about 10 feet of cordage from yucca leaves per hour. it can be made from fibres from bark (from willow and lime trees for example), hemp and nettle fibres, yukka leaves, split brambles, tanned leather, even rawhide and so forth... look up "z twist, s ply cordage" (or otherway round, dont remember precise terminology off hand, getting my kid ready for beavers ) the likes of ray mears and bear grylls also demonstrate these skills.

like most things, it seems impossible when you dont know anything of the methods, then as you experiment, practice and refine skills, the bigger picture opens up before you

Originally posted by McGinty
If it were 26,000 years old it might make a good bunker to hide from whatever the galaxy passing through the 'dark rift' every 26,000 years might through at us.

The "dark rift" is the cloud of dust that's in the disc of OUR own galaxy. We are in one of the spiral arms of this galaxy, about 2/3 of the way from the center.

Because the whole galaxy spins like a flat disk (frisbee), every star in the galaxy is in alignment with the galaxy all the time. The "dust cloud" is a very wide band and we are in almost constant alignment with it.

reply to post by skalla


Found nothing in the link, and I'm sure as hell not reading 7 pages of commentary by non-scientists.

You're own link says some say it's 4000 to 6,000 old, which is a hell of a lot more reasonable.

Do you or do you not have a description of how these things were dated?

reply to post by Gorman91


human remains and grave goods

reply to post by skalla


And how old are these skeletons?

Also where? I need a map, statements from actual scientists and pictures would be nice. These images to stones in the dirt are not enough.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by skalla

 

And how old are these skeletons?

Also where? I need a map, statements from actual scientists and pictures would be nice. These images to stones in the dirt are not enough.

you cant be arsed so i should do it for you?

give over

reply to post by skalla


You gave data, it's your responsibility to defend it.

If you cannot defend it, I have to assume the more reasonable count of ~9000 years old.

Unless you can provide actual data that says 25,000, these ruins look 9,000 years old and look like they would be made by people 9,000 years ago.

If you don't want to defend what you found, don't put it on the wall.

reply to post by Gorman91


this is why you should read the thread and the comments, i have contributed plenty to this discussion, have repeated myself enough and see no need to do it any further. put some effort in

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by skalla

 

You gave data, it's your responsibility to defend it.

If you cannot defend it, I have to assume the more reasonable count of ~9000 years old.

Unless you can provide actual data that says 25,000, these ruins look 9,000 years old and look like they would be made by people 9,000 years ago.

If you don't want to defend what you found, don't put it on the wall.

edit on 30-1-2013 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

you think i suggest it's 25k BP??? again, read the thread, or even just my comments on it if you wish to argue about things that i was actually the first on this thread to follow the info for and refute.

reply to post by skalla


I don't think I should have to read 7 pages to get 3 lines of data dude.

Those are truly impressive. IDK why such an ancient culture would use stone like that - or have such technology for such weight and perfectly round entrances unless ... well IDK.

Seems it implies there an associated alien theory to it.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by skalla

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by MarsSentinel

 

there are squiggly lines carved on the dolmens, maybe they represent the frequency it took to resonate the stones in order to move/make them?

but why bother when physically able and resourceful humans can do it with simple equipment that we can prove existed, replicate today, and can place in a typology of developing human technology and construction methods that clearly leads us step by step to the modern age?

some people need to get outside and try making things, rather than making assumptions based on lack of knowledge and practical experience... sorry to sound harsh, but so much bunk is talked about megalithics and people need to take some responsibility for educating themselves rather than living in cloud cockoo land.

ETA: there are also a wealth of books out the that cover these symbols but it's futile to hold peoples hands when looking into decently researched and peer reviewed academic works (and not just the made-up internets) can allow them an epiphany of there own... sheesh!

edit on 29-1-2013 by skalla because: (no reason given)

what you're talking about is called "bamboo technology". It's like the gadgets on Gilligan's Island. I love how people like you assume people like me don't know what I'm talking about as if I've never held a power tool in my hands before. And that's the funny part because anybody who takes the time to look at the evidence and who actually does know what it takes to make, move and manipulate the kinds of things like these that we find all over the Earth, will tell you they didn't do it with hand tools.

I'm waiting for the part where you take the time to prove that you actually do know what it takes to make, move and manipulate heavy stones pieces instead of just implying that you know more than the other guy.

The burden of proof is on you, man.

Convince me that this is impossible to without magics.

Protip: the best proofs use mathematics

Originally posted by Mkoll


Convince me that this is impossible to without magics.

stick vs rock= rock wins every time

reply to post by bottleslingguy


You have yet to prove that structures such as these were built by our ancestors without hand tools (or rather that contemporary humans would be completely unable to create these with hand tools)

Originally posted by Mkoll
reply to post by bottleslingguy

 

You have yet to prove that structures such as these were built by our ancestors without hand tools (or rather that contemporary humans would be completely unable to create these with hand tools)

edit on 12-2-2013 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)

"A range of hypotheses has been put forward to explain these similarities and the building of megaliths on the whole, but still it remains unclear."

well since nobody else has a clue we'll have to settle on common sense. if your common sense says bamboo tech then I guess you're good with that.

reply to post by bottleslingguy


bamboo tech and gilligans island?
and you talk that your experience is with power tools?
sorry but my experience is with archaeology and a wide range of ancient crafts, i've helped build round houses, used and made stone tools (as well as teaching others how to do this) and done a great many woodland and farm projects "the old fashioned way".
clearly ancient man was far more resourceful and self reliant than you.

and just for the record, lots of "sticks" beats rock, especially with rope.
dont you realise that the skills and buildings we have today have an ancestry of their own? these monuments are just an early stage in the progression of that history.
please explain how you think they were done. in detail.

Originally posted by skalla
reply to post by bottleslingguy

 

bamboo tech and gilligans island?
and you talk that your experience is with power tools?
sorry but my experience is with archaeology and a wide range of ancient crafts, i've helped build round houses, used and made stone tools (as well as teaching others how to do this) and done a great many woodland and farm projects "the old fashioned way".
clearly ancient man was far more resourceful and self reliant than you.

and just for the record, lots of "sticks" beats rock, especially with rope.
dont you realise that the skills and buildings we have today have an ancestry of their own? these monuments are just an early stage in the progression of that history.
please explain how you think they were done. in detail.

I don't doubt there are impressive structures done with ropes and sticks but there are stones in Egypt and S.America that bear marks that can't be from anything other than high speed or ultrasonic tools. Not only the actual tool marks but the whole logistics involved to achieve such high tolerances and symmetry is not done with slow hand tools. As proud as you may be of ancient man's accomplishments it doesn't change the tangible evidence on the stones themselves.

reply to post by bottleslingguy


my ats saturday has led to so many facepalms that i feel my nose will never be the same shape again.
you really dont know how well stones shape other stones, and how ancient copper tools had surprisingly adept metallurgy, with alloys that hardened the tips, and were easily retouched by craftspeople.
the only remaining questions about such massive monuments that you refer, which is of course not what we were talking about, is how the biggest stones were moved and why. and it's really not so hard to answer most of those unless you lack the facts and an appreciation of engineering and human ingenuity. please please read more (rational, academic) books before i facepalm a last time and end up looking like voldemort.

this is going nowhere, i just had to come back though because of your "sticks vs rocks" and gilligans island nonsense.

bye

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
I don't doubt there are impressive structures done with ropes and sticks but there are stones in Egypt and S.America that bear marks that can't be from anything other than high speed or ultrasonic tools.

I find the certainty of this statement very, very suspect. There is mainly one source of this assertion: Christopher Dunn, who has vested interest in that since he's selling books on this subject. I watched his video and participated in threads on these topics, and it's just not convincing at all - I'm actually quite astonished that someone would say "sure, that's ultrasonic technology right there". Frankly, there is no way of knowing it. At the same time, given the documented methods (based on archeological evidence) oftentimes the ancients used pretty basic tech, while still being extremely organized and coordinated (hence the logistics). It's hard to imagine why one would choose to split stone using wooden wedges being soaked in water, if they had laser beams and ultrasonic blades.

very cool

if i'm not mistaken, the theory goes homo sapien sapien has had the same size brain for 100,000 years, so we may someday find buildings that old