What you need (items) & What you need to learn (for a full collapse)

Originally posted by AbandonedKid
You know what I want? A guide on how to live in the wilderness with nothing except the clothes you are wearing and a simple pocket and/or swiss army knife. If you can get me that, I'd be much obliged.

For that check out anything by Ray Mears.

reply to post by Ghostx


Hey, that's awesome. I live right on the border of the Wasatch Forest, have spent much time in the Uintahs too, as well as the deserts.

Originally posted by xxshadowfaxx
reply to post by heyitsok

 

It doesn't matter if they get watered or not, some will grow, some wont. if enough people do it, there is abundance. Rain will water it. Nature has a funny way of surviving without human intervention.

Excuse me? Doesn't matter?

Do you have any experience growing food plants? Or growing anything for that matter?

Anyplace where it is too dry for your food plants to grow, they will have to be watered.

Anyplace where it is wet enough that your food plants don't need someone to water them, there will also be enough competing weeds to choke your food plants to death.

If you are just going to take handfuls of seeds or "seed balls" or whatever and chuck them to the wind and let nature take its course, then you are going to meet with very little success and absolutely *zero* long-term or sustainable results. If vegetables could just grow along the side of the road or in abandoned lots like that, with no help or intervention from anybody, then they would already be there.

You are right, nature has a way of surviving. But your optimistic fantasy that you can just sprinkle seeds on the ground and they will automagically become food is frustrating and insulting to people like me who actually work ourselves into sunburned exhaustion growing food. You want nutritional abundance, learn how to garden for real, in real life, from gardeners, and then work your butt off at it--and encourage everybody you know to do the same.

Most of you are correct, this list is a bit over-kill, and lacking majorally in general areas of real need. if you have spent time in the woods, then you'll understand what im talking about with the list.
I feel as though making a list is really for the people who have Not spent time in the woods, You would not need many of these items, and really should be very adaptive to any situation with real skill and education in survival.
A knife, flint, some wire, a container, good boots, rope, some rations of food, and first aid is about all you'll need for starters. Then once you get settled in, you can start trapping, setting up shelters, and getting a sense of what you really have to do day to day in order to survive. All depends on where you are in the world, what you know, and what you can physically do, that will determine your list. peace out

Originally posted by Glassbender777
Most of you are correct, this list is a bit over-kill, and lacking majorally in general areas of real need. if you have spent time in the woods, then you'll understand what im talking about with the list.
I feel as though making a list is really for the people who have Not spent time in the woods, You would not need many of these items, and really should be very adaptive to any situation with real skill and education in survival.
A knife, flint, some wire, a container, good boots, rope, some rations of food, and first aid is about all you'll need for starters. Then once you get settled in, you can start trapping, setting up shelters, and getting a sense of what you really have to do day to day in order to survive. All depends on where you are in the world, what you know, and what you can physically do, that will determine your list. peace out

What you need (items) & What you need to learn (for a full collapse)

That is the title of the op. Not "what you need for a day hike with a picnic in May." Collapse. As in, it is effing anarchy and you are fleeing into the wilderness in a desperate attempt to survive the hellhole that used to be civilization until it collapsed.

At least, that is how I read the title.

You guys do know that if and when the "SHTF" (to use a term I find gross), it is going to be a terrifying and ridiculous bloodbath, right?

Originally posted by Glassbender777
Most of you are correct, this list is a bit over-kill, and lacking majorally in general areas of real need. if you have spent time in the woods, then you'll understand what im talking about with the list.
I feel as though making a list is really for the people who have Not spent time in the woods, You would not need many of these items, and really should be very adaptive to any situation with real skill and education in survival.
A knife, flint, some wire, a container, good boots, rope, some rations of food, and first aid is about all you'll need for starters. Then once you get settled in, you can start trapping, setting up shelters, and getting a sense of what you really have to do day to day in order to survive. All depends on where you are in the world, what you know, and what you can physically do, that will determine your list. peace out

I urge you to change your thinking on this. While researching & learning skills beforehand is good, it is not a solution. i can tell you that even with a fire making set, you will find it hard to make fire when there's a thunderstorm + non-stop rain. You'll find it hard to light a fire with flint, if A. you haven't done it much, or B. you don't have extremely dry substances to make the fire.

Some rations of food is great for a little. Yet I recommend just packing a thing of rice and beans. I mean like a large bag. Ration yourself to a cup of that for each meal (and other stuff that has nutrients if possible).
Setting up a shelter is something you'll want to do on your first night; not once you get settled in. I'm talking tarp shelters though.

Originally posted by Ghostx
Multiple lighters & zippos are not only great for emergencies, but also for trade. In a full collapse, you may come along people that need fire. Furthermore, in a full collapse we can assume that the economy has failed and thus barter is the norm.

Why are you so adamant about the zippos? I use a zippo every day, and I would never consider a zippo as an emergency tool. I have already pointed out common sense reasons why, mechanical reasons, performance issues, not to mention the expense of them. Also the fuel inside them will run out even if you do not use it, it evaporates. My gas soldering iron works better, lasts longer, burns hotter, carries more fuel, is light, and can also be used as a non-lethal self defense too. Soldering iron burn has a hell of a sting to give anybody that gets too close.

Originally posted by Ghostx

Originally posted by Glassbender777
Most of you are correct, this list is a bit over-kill, and lacking majorally in general areas of real need. if you have spent time in the woods, then you'll understand what im talking about with the list.
I feel as though making a list is really for the people who have Not spent time in the woods, You would not need many of these items, and really should be very adaptive to any situation with real skill and education in survival.
A knife, flint, some wire, a container, good boots, rope, some rations of food, and first aid is about all you'll need for starters. Then once you get settled in, you can start trapping, setting up shelters, and getting a sense of what you really have to do day to day in order to survive. All depends on where you are in the world, what you know, and what you can physically do, that will determine your list. peace out

I urge you to change your thinking on this. While researching & learning skills beforehand is good, it is not a solution. i can tell you that even with a fire making set, you will find it hard to make fire when there's a thunderstorm + non-stop rain. You'll find it hard to light a fire with flint, if A. you haven't done it much, or B. you don't have extremely dry substances to make the fire.

Some rations of food is great for a little. Yet I recommend just packing a thing of rice and beans. I mean like a large bag. Ration yourself to a cup of that for each meal (and other stuff that has nutrients if possible).
Setting up a shelter is something you'll want to do on your first night; not once you get settled in. I'm talking tarp shelters though.

This is an important point where I agree with you 100%, GhostX. Mother nature doesn't look kindly upon those who think survival comes with on-the-job training.

Your idea about a big bag of rice and beans is a good one, I'm actually going to implement your tip myself.

Theres a lot of protein and carbohydrates in a cup of rice and beans. Throw in some dried corn too, and that with the beans gives you a complete protein. Carry a bottle of multivitamins with you to take some of the pressure off your back to find vitamin-rich wild plants to eat. Now you're on to something.

You're right about shelter too. Remember the Rule of Threes: you can survive three minutes without air, three hours without shelter, three days without water, and three weeks without food.

reply to post by heyitsok


At first it will be, for the first year or so, the majority of people will starve and kill off others. The inner cities will try to leave and make it out in country. Some will make it. Then you will have marauders and groups like that killing pillaging, raping. It will be truly the strongest survive and the weak perish scenario.

Then as time goes on the good people that silently bunker-ed down and rode the chaos out will start to emerge ,that is when it is a good time to start forming communities to survive. Plus by doing this you have a better chance of defending against raiders and marauders. It will be ugly at first , you just have to make sure you are somewhere secret and safe with enough resources to survive the initial chaos. Make sure to keep a Radio for communication for when it is safe to emerge.

You see there are hard core people in this world that do not have families to worry about and they can go around and locate safe haven's to form communities.

Bic lighters can get wet. The flint will still spark if it is damp. Ask any smoker who has put their only lighter in the wash along with their jeans.

Cotton balls saturated with vaseline are lightweight, sticky, waterproof, and burn for a very long time. They are like little napalm dots you can stick anywhere. Fill a ziploc bag with them and keep that in your kit too.

The most difficult tool to make out of stuff you find in the wilderness, is a sharp axe. But with a sharp axe you can make almost any other tool.

Worried about the survival of the generations to be born after the collapse? Teach them how to make bows and arrows.

But also don't forget that a great food-catching tool is as close as the nearest throwable stone or heavy stick.

Wild foods will never be as abundant or as *nearby* as foods you cultivate yourself. Do save a good variety of non-GMO, heirloom seeds---and don't forget to take them with you when you bail!

That's all I can think to add at the moment.

Originally posted by skorpius
reply to post by heyitsok

 

At first it will be, for the first year or so, the majority of people will starve and kill off others. The inner cities will try to leave and make it out in country. Some will make it. Then you will have marauders and groups like that killing pillaging, raping. It will be truly the strongest survive and the weak perish scenario.

Then as time goes on the good people that silently bunker-ed down and rode the chaos out will start to emerge ,that is when it is a good time to start forming communities to survive. Plus by doing this you have a better chance of defending against raiders and marauders. It will be ugly at first , you just have to make sure you are somewhere secret and safe with enough resources to survive the initial chaos. Make sure to keep a Radio for communication for when it is safe to emerge.

You see there are hard core people in this world that do not have families to worry about and they can go around and locate safe haven's to form communities.

Glad to see there is another person here with a realistic view of things.

I don't have children, but I feel like I have to know more, be stronger, prepare better, for the sake of my elderly parents, my little brother and his wife, my friends who know more about xbox and cake flavored vodka than they do about surviving what the natural world and the real evil of actual people can throw at you.

Survival means making skillful use of the best tools you can get your hands on, and even then it is far from guaranteed, right?

The cities will be warzones. Then fire will spread. Cities, suburbs... no safe place to bunker. Too much good luck in that equation. The country? Country people aren't dumb, they know they need every bit of land they can nail down just to grow enough food/raise enough livestock/have enough firewood for their own people. They're not about to let fleeing city folk take their land, who wouldn't know what to do with it even if they succeeded. I'd put my money on a hick with a lever-action .30-.30, over a suburban weekend warrior with a laser and eotech equipped AR with a full beta mag, any day of the week.

And the mountains, the desert, tundra, jungle... all the wilderness that is left... is still wilderness because those are the very hardest places to survive and thrive. I hate to say it, but FEMA camps are going to be the best possible place to be for most people.

I get frustrated with this topic. But there really is no "Correct" list of items. We are all going to be sorely lacking more things we think are necessary, than we are going to have. I will chill out now and continue, as you say, looking for a safe haven where maybe a community could form.

Originally posted by heyitsok

Originally posted by Ghostx
Multiple lighters & zippos are not only great for emergencies, but also for trade. In a full collapse, you may come along people that need fire. Furthermore, in a full collapse we can assume that the economy has failed and thus barter is the norm.

Why are you so adamant about the zippos? I use a zippo every day, and I would never consider a zippo as an emergency tool. I have already pointed out common sense reasons why, mechanical reasons, performance issues, not to mention the expense of them. Also the fuel inside them will run out even if you do not use it, it evaporates. My gas soldering iron works better, lasts longer, burns hotter, carries more fuel, is light, and can also be used as a non-lethal self defense too. Soldering iron burn has a hell of a sting to give anybody that gets too close.

There is a caveat here too, for my situation at least. In the winter, I get dropped off in the middle of know-where, on my own, by helicopter on a regular basis.

Although I am well versed at using a fire drill and I carry a fire steel which I use often, I am usually in terrain that looks like this:

In fact that picture was taken just last week with temperatures around -25 and a windchill around -45. It can take a good part of the day to get a fire going with a fire steel in these conditions, never mind with a fire drill. And the more you are standing around the number your hands get. Especially if you have been working hard to get through all that snow during the day and have built up moisture in your clothing. Or worse yet ended up going through the ice.

The point is that besides the ever reliable fire steel, I also take lighters with me too because I can get my fire built and lit in a few minutes with one.

So why a zippo lighter? Well anything with pressurized gas is illegal to carry in a helicopter. This includes Bic lighters and soldering torches. Zippos are legal to carry in a helicopter. They are a simple, ruggedized, time tested and proven device with a fairly low failure rate. I like Bic lighters too and traditionally carry them in a Ziploc bag in case I end up wet, but I cannot carry them in the helicopter.

reply to post by dainoyfb


Yes, that is a good point. However, comma, it is entirely irrelevant to the context in which this thread was couched by the OP, which is what you need in a collapse.

In a collapse, if you have access to your own helicopter and pilot and fuel, then by all means ignore my advice and choose a zippo over my soldering iron if you want. You have a helicopter, I'm pretty sure you will make it out of town ok. _javascript:icon('')

However, in a collapse I don't give a flying f(helicopter)k about the legality of carrying pressurized flammable gas in a helicopter, because I don't have a helicopter, and there is no law.

And how are you going to refuel your soldering torch, which by the way consumes copious amounts of gas? Zippos burn home brew fuels that have been around and largely available for thousands of years. Pressurized Butane? Not so much.

Ya know, I've never in my life seen a seasoned woodsman with a soldering torch. I wonder why.

Oh, I don't know, maybe because it isn't a traditional woodsman's tool? Just a guess, I really don't know >_>

Originally posted by dainoyfb
And how are you going to refuel your soldering torch, which by the way consumes copious amounts of gas? Zippos burn home brew fuels that have been around and largely available for thousands of years. Pressurized Butane? Not so much.

My suggestion was a response to the OP's suggestion of carrying 5 zippos and 5 units of refill fluid. In that context, my soldering iron consumes less fuel to make a fire because it burns much hotter with a steady flame which is windproof. It may consume more fuel in a second, but is necessary to have it lit for a much shorter period of time, so it balances out. And I will refill it with the one single canister of pressurized butane which will make more fires for me than five bottles of liquid zippo butane, and do it faster and far more efficiently while consuming less space in my pack and less weight on my back.

Home brew fuels are again, not relevant. If you have had the time and resources to make home brewed fuels, then you are obviously already settled and have resources at hand, which would negate the necessity of carrying almost *all* of the things mentioned by either myself or the OP. In any case, if you are refilling a zippo with home brewed fuels, then the zippo isn't really much more to you than a little itty bitty flint and steel. Just another way to make a spark, that's all it is in that scenario.

I'm fairly confident that my single soldering torch and single canister of pressurized butane will last me long enough to either a) bite the bullet because a wandering starving accountant gut shot me with his father-in-law's .22 plinker and I died slowly of infection over the course of a week, because they wanted my firemaking kit; or b) make it to a place where I will be reasonably safe and can stop running for a while and stop concentrating so much on being fast, quiet, and efficient, and resume doing things in a slightly more relaxed fashion. On that day I may feel safe enough and comfortable enough in my situation to spark off my tinder bundle with the zippo that is still in the pocket of my jeans from before society collapsed. That is, if the fabric wick hasn't become wet, if the small flint hasn't broken or worn out, and if the fuel hasn't fumed out and evaporated, and if I can light everything that needs lighting without having to turn it sideways----all areas where a zippo is sorely deficient as a firemaking tool.

reply to post by dainoyfb


Again, this thread is not, and never was, about being a seasoned woodsman. It is about things you should have on hand in case of collapse.

Reading comprehension. Learn it. Do it.

Originally posted by heyitsok
reply to post by dainoyfb

 

Again, this thread is not, and never was, about being a seasoned woodsman. It is about things you should have on hand in case of collapse.

Reading comprehension. Learn it. Do it.

The premiss of the OP is based on sustained living in the woods which is stated twice in the very first paragraph.

Back at you.

You know what? Believe whatever you want. You all go ahead and carry novelty lighters and/or the traditional tools of a "seasoned woodsman."

To have better technology at hand and not use it in an emergency is foolishness of the highest order. Good luck surviving any emergency.

I've been making good suggestions on this thread. Suggestions developed from common sense, research, experience, and logic. I have not recieved a single star or even a good response. And now I am getting snarky comments.

You may not like my attitude, but at least I know whereof I speak. At least I'm not giving bad advice about a subject which nobody can afford to receive bad advice on.

All of you "seasoned woodsmen" and expert wilderness pack mules, enjoy the thread without me. I'm going back to lurking, like everybody else who has any practical knowledge about this subject has obviously been doing.