Fed vows to extend 85 Billion a month...

Oh this really can't end well. Not well at all.

At Fed, Nascent Debate on When to Slow Asset Buying

Inside the central bank, however, debate is once again shifting from whether the Fed should do more to stimulate the economy to when it should start doing less.

Proponents of strong action to reduce unemployment won a series of victories last year, culminating in December when the Fed announced that it would hold short-term interest rates near zero at least until the unemployment rate fell below 6.5 percent. The rate was 7.8 percent in December.

To accelerate that process, the Fed also said it would increase its holdings of Treasury securities and mortgage-backed securities by $85 billion each month until it sees clear signs of strength in the job market.

Source

Apprently the Debt ceiling is put off till mid-may as Boehner can't even lead his own House. It was embarrassing to see when Pelosi couldn't manage it and she was a strong personality. They reconfirmed a wimp as the speaker and he folded like a cheap suit. AGAIN. (December was the first, let's not forget)

He may not have much chance to win at times but making the fight something at least noticeable used to mean something. The alternative is not only losing but throwing the whole challenge by default.

There was never any doubt that the measure the GOP dubbed “No Budget No Pay” would pass, putting off a potential debt crisis until mid-May, but Democrats held off casting their yes votes until nearly the end of the scheduled vote period to force Republicans to step forward with their votes to support the bill. “We wanted to make it as difficult as possible for them,” says a Democratic leadership aide, who added, “It helps with primaries.”

Sourc e

The Fed's spending though is the real shocker. This year's 'on-paper' budget deficit as calculated back in the summer for goodness sake...was projected to be 900 billion and that was using assumptions that weren't terribly realistic as a sheet in the budget had them.

This reconfirms spending an additional 1 trillion a year on top of that. Most nations don't even have a GDP at what we're now burning in pure debt annually as a country. (The top EIGHT nations have a GDP in excess of JUST OUR DEBT on the ANNUAL spending basis.)

Fun times ahead. Strap in tight I'd say. If they're spending that open ended to improvement in the Job market? That means this is how it falls. There isn't a bottom by that criteria because one feeds into the other, IMO.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I don't understand why nations are agreeing to borrow us more money. At this point what could they possibly gain from giving the US money?

There must be something going on behind the scenes, it makes no logical sense to give a country money and have them squander it away on wars and healthcare. It sounds callous but why would a Chinese family give a crap about our elderly. Why would the Chinese government fund our wars?

It makes no sense to me unless in the end they will get something. Like land or resources.

reply to post by litterbaux

That's the whole problem. No one is. China only holds around a trillion and Japan holds #2. Or they did when last I checked. Most of this is publicly held debt which is a nice and cute way of saying bonds, treasury bills and that sort of thing. It's also just gone to "monetizing" our own debt which is the free fall thing here. That's printing more to create something to buy the toxic debt off the private market. It's TARP without the TARP in one way and at an unthinkable rate.

The entire Department of Defense comes under 1 trillion a year, by comparison.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


So what your saying is, the Fed is buying our debt? What happens when the Fed owns the country? Will they kick us out of our house we can't afford?

I don't see the end game here.

reply to post by litterbaux


I am not an expert in finance. Hell I have no idea how the system works.

But this is what I see and I hope someone with the knowledge will tell me if "I'm off in left field with a hockey paddle":

If a person had five apples and they were the only apples in the world. Each of those apples would have a high value. If each of his 20 neighbors had five apples, and they were the only apples in the world, they would have a lower (but still high) value. If every house in the world had five apples, apples would be next to worthless.

The more there is of a product, the less value it retains. Every new dollar printed lessens the value of every other dollar in circulation.

Am I real far off the mark?

It was my understanding that the 85 billion a month is unlimited - until the economy "recovers"

Also, the terms of recovery are very open, that is why to me this is QE: Infinity.


reply to post by litterbaux


Once a country starts monetizing their debt, you are going to see high inflation. You would already be seeing this but the government is manipulating the numbers.

reply to post by litterbaux


Yes they are at a tune of now 85 billion dollars a month, is call the QEs, before were call bailouts.

But as usual people have not clue what is going in the US and with our economy, sadly is not fixing and nothing is going to get better, the fed wants Americans to be indebted for ever and they want to keep stealing from hard workers in the nation.

Spending is not way to fix anything, anybody that spend more than they can generated in income knows that very well and they don't need to be geniuses to figure that one out.

China stop coming to the auction block a long time ago and so Japan, they have their own version of QEs as all the entire world is under economic stress to the neck.

The Federal Reserve Shows Barack Obama Who The Real Boss Is and "trillion dollar coin" That could have saved the tax payers in the nation.

theeconomiccollapseblog.com...


Wall Street runs the Fed so yes we can pretty much say that they can do whatever they want out of the arse to do and congress and the President have not say so on how the fed does their business and that business is to keep Wall Street running.

ah The giant pink vampire squid in the parlor
fands to Rabbit
I think this is really the heart of the attack on the US and all the other sovreign nations and "free" peoples. so is an important topic to expose to the choir

Remember the scandals amoungst the banks where the brokers were selling assests they knew were going to crash and using the proceeds to buy up the assests of their broken investors they had bet against using derivatives?

The bankers will end up owning everything and they will rule with a top of the foodchain structure that is the endgame of a debt based monitary system
thats the bad news

the goodnews is
by the time they own everything, they will have turned paradise into a burntout radioactive bloodoilsoaked dirtball where mutation rules the last few cockroaches and Sh!(quiet) Itflies left, and so they won't have got much value for their money

Originally posted by MidnightTide
It was my understanding that the 85 billion a month is unlimited - until the economy "recovers"

Also, the terms of recovery are very open, that is why to me this is QE: Infinity.


reply to post by litterbaux

 

Once a country starts monetizing their debt, you are going to see high inflation. You would already be seeing this but the government is manipulating the numbers.

edit on 27-1-2013 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

Putting it into perspective, the Democrats have spent 2 years arguing for tax increases that amount to $85 billion a YEAR, while they are spending $85 billion a MONTH.

Does anyone else not think that is ludicrous?

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Yeah, it only takes a littler bit of "of mathematics to see what is going on and why Americas hard working tax payer will never get out of the economic hole'' but rest assure that somebody is reaping profits out of the debt that now lies on the backs of the unborn for generations to come.

Originally posted by litterbaux
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

So what your saying is, the Fed is buying our debt?

This is how it works. The Federal Reserve, a private banking consortium, invents money out of thin air, then loans it to the government, with interest. Pull a bill of folding money out and read what it says at the top.

"Federal Reserve Note".

It is their money and have a lien against it which they can call in at any time.

The government then issues it to me and you for temporary use.

Then, the Fed takes money it invents out of thin air, buys the government debt(securities), with additional interest, with money they own, made from thin air, trading it for real assets, that it can call in at any time.

Pretty sweet scam, huh?

What happens when the Fed owns the country?

What do you mean by "when"?

Will they kick us out of our house we can't afford?

I don't see the end game here.

They keep us as slaves to the banks, like most people are now.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Yeah, it only takes a littler bit of "of mathematics to see what is going on and why Americas hard working tax payer will never get out of the economic hole'' but rest assure that somebody is reaping profits out of the debt that now lies on the backs of the unborn for generations to come.

As of right now 5% of ALL taxes goes to pay interest. In 4 years it will be 7%. 4 more years most likely 10%. At that point it becomes near impossible to EVER repay our debt, as we will be borrowing hundreds of billions a year, increasing the debt, just to repay interest. It is a multiplicative effect. Obama's 8 years is going to set this country back 30 or 40 years.

Originally posted by Danbones
ah The giant pink vampire squid in the parlor
fands to Rabbit
I think this is really the heart of the attack on the US and all the other sovreign nations and "free" peoples. so is an important topic to expose to the choir

Remember the scandals amoungst the banks where the brokers were selling assests they knew were going to crash and using the proceeds to buy up the assests of their broken investors they had bet against using derivatives?

The bankers will end up owning everything and they will rule with a top of the foodchain structure that is the endgame of a debt based monitary system
thats the bad news

the goodnews is
by the time they own everything, they will have turned paradise into a burntout radioactive bloodoilsoaked dirtball where mutation rules the last few cockroaches and Sh!(quiet) Itflies left, and so they won't have got much value for their money

edit on 27-1-2013 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

Geee, I suddenly feel like drinking a glass of cyanide.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Yeah, it only takes a littler bit of "of mathematics to see what is going on and why Americas hard working tax payer will never get out of the economic hole'' but rest assure that somebody is reaping profits out of the debt that now lies on the backs of the unborn for generations to come.

As of right now 5% of ALL taxes goes to pay interest. In 4 years it will be 7%. 4 more years most likely 10%. At that point it becomes near impossible to EVER repay our debt, as we will be borrowing hundreds of billions a year, increasing the debt, just to repay interest. It is a multiplicative effect. Obama's 8 years is going to set this country back 30 or 40 years.

Problem is, that does not include the "unfunded liabilities" of the goobermint, which raise the real debt level to between 50-70 Trillion.

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Yeah, it only takes a littler bit of "of mathematics to see what is going on and why Americas hard working tax payer will never get out of the economic hole'' but rest assure that somebody is reaping profits out of the debt that now lies on the backs of the unborn for generations to come.

As of right now 5% of ALL taxes goes to pay interest. In 4 years it will be 7%. 4 more years most likely 10%. At that point it becomes near impossible to EVER repay our debt, as we will be borrowing hundreds of billions a year, increasing the debt, just to repay interest. It is a multiplicative effect. Obama's 8 years is going to set this country back 30 or 40 years.

Problem is, that does not include the "unfunded liabilities" of the goobermint, which raise the real debt level to between 50-70 Trillion.

edit on 27-1-2013 by JuniorBeauchamp because: (no reason given)

That is a completely seperate issue. That includes promises for 75 years, and should not be talked about in this thread.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Yeah, it only takes a littler bit of "of mathematics to see what is going on and why Americas hard working tax payer will never get out of the economic hole'' but rest assure that somebody is reaping profits out of the debt that now lies on the backs of the unborn for generations to come.

As of right now 5% of ALL taxes goes to pay interest. In 4 years it will be 7%. 4 more years most likely 10%. At that point it becomes near impossible to EVER repay our debt, as we will be borrowing hundreds of billions a year, increasing the debt, just to repay interest. It is a multiplicative effect. Obama's 8 years is going to set this country back 30 or 40 years.

Problem is, that does not include the "unfunded liabilities" of the goobermint, which raise the real debt level to between 50-70 Trillion.

edit on 27-1-2013 by JuniorBeauchamp because: (no reason given)

That is a completely seperate issue. That includes promises for 75 years, and should not be talked about in this thread.

Not all are that far out.

The Boomers are about to require a good portion of it.

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


Which is why they just increased social security payments by a HUGE amount. Of course that is not a 'tax increase' on the middle class because Obama would never do that. But, it's a tax increase on the Middle class and Obama did it. It went about about 50%.

Between the healthcare increase and social security increase and the middle class tax increases I am losing about $1500 this year. That is almost 100% of my disposable income after I pay my bills. That is almost 7% of my income.

This just messes my head up...I've got a monkey on my back and my bank says "it's OK, We'll give you $85.00 a day to pay your dealer!" I'd be a pawn in a game that was too important to let my dealer go down. At the end of the day....All I'm gonna do is OD? It makes me wish I'd played "Risk" more as a kid!

reply to post by litterbaux

Sorry I didn't get right back to you. My net has been screwy tonight. Anyway, it's not that clear cut. The way you ask that would imply the fed is a separate entity which it is...but then, it isn't.

The Fed IS Federal...but then, it's NOT Federal.

Let me try and explain that because it is like a pretzel for how it works.

It's NOT Federal in that the Fed is an independent and privately run organization. However, it does take direction from the US Congress. At the same time, Congress cannot give it orders, as I understand it. It's head (Ben Bernanke) is appointed by the US President and then confirmed by the US Senate, just like a Cabinet level position. At the same time, because it's not "ACTUALLY" Federal, it can avoid direct Congressional oversight and auditing ..which it always has. There was some limited auditing in recent years but nothing like a Corporation would have to submit as a public company. Nothing remotely close.

So, in a way, the Fed is buying the national debts through securities and other things but in a very real sense, that's US buying our OWN debt. The mind numbing complexity of how it works when it really shouldn't is probably why is HAS this long.

Sorry you asked?

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

Which is why they just increased social security payments by a HUGE amount. Of course that is not a 'tax increase' on the middle class because Obama would never do that. But, it's a tax increase on the Middle class and Obama did it. It went about about 50%.

Between the healthcare increase and social security increase and the middle class tax increases I am losing about $1500 this year. That is almost 100% of my disposable income after I pay my bills. That is almost 7% of my income.

Even those increases are not going to make a dent in the liabilities that the Boomers will be demanding.

I am a Boomer myself, but from the time I was 15YO, knew that the ponzi scheme called "Social Security" would be dead broke when I reached my 60s, and prepared accordingly. I plan to not use a penny of any of it.

As for the others, well, there is always euthanasia.

And that is one reason there are "death panels" in Obamacare.

The collectivist mind is one of a hive mentality.

Once what the Obamacare administrators call us, "human resource units", have served their purpose as contributors to the hive, but then become a drain on hive resources, they are viewed as parasites, and eliminated.

Given the choice of spending $100,000 for an organ replacement for a non-contributing human hive resource unit of 65 years old or putting it into a human hive resource unit of 20 who will contribute to the hive for 40 years, guess who looses out?

You got it.

After all, they shoot horses don't they?