Regarding those who claim freemasons worship lucifer -

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posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by thelongjourney
 


Why are you so sure it doesn't exist? Calling people delusional and acting with a superiority complex, doesn't seem to be a hallmark of Freemasonry, from what I am to understand...
edit on 28-1-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by VeritasAequitas
 


My Grandfather is a Freemason. He is no longer active in it, but he still honors the oath he upheld to not tell the secrets. He is a good, Christian man and in no way would he EVER be part of any satanic group. I asked him recently about the Masons being bad and he said that he knew that stuff not to be true. So that puts an end to those questions for me. Just cause my Granddaddy told me so.



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
And here is where you fall on your face on ATS. We don't need their names.


Uhm, yeah you do. Particularly when you are aksing pointed questions about Masonry in relation to alleged plotting and scheming by these unnamed persons.

Go read the thread I created mostly in your honor. You seem to constanly utliize the tactics outlined therein.

 

Mod Note: ALL MEMBERS: We expect civility and decorum within all topics - Please Review This Link.
edit on 28-1-2013 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)


I can read other things. Here is a book I found in this Freemason Library Catalog. It is similar to most all the Freemason literature, but this one can serve to identify the whole.

LIBRARY: Library Link

Interestingly, this book is edited by Crowley. Hummm. I thought the Masons had NOTHING to do with him?

Book of the Goetia

Should I quote the invocations to Osiris and Horus?

"[[Osorronophris = The perfected Osiris. The hierophant in the G.D. neophyte ritual. But
for those who accept Qelhma variation, the formula is of Horus. Ever-growing child, not
dying God. Candidate \ is Horus, & the perfected Horus is Ra Hoor Khuit.]]"

The words invocation means to invoke, through ritualistic magic, a god to do you bidding. Where do we make the distinction between the topic of this thread, Aleister Crowley and the works of magic and occult craft by the Masons? I am not seeing how you can distinguish your topic to the evidence against.

Why are all these books on invocation of Angelic magic in the library of the Freemasons? Why do their podcasts center around theurgy, theosophy and occult rituals to summon forces of principalities and powers?

Illuminate me.



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Their name is Mason. Regardless of their given name, the oath connects the private associations to the fruit of the labor.


As in Perry? Or maybe Jackie?

You get rather inventively creative when asked to supply facts which everyone here can see are in rather unsurprisingly short supply.

Did you visit my honorary thread? I would really like to see you explain why it is acceptable to do what you do.



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by justlittleoldme
 


I haven't said anything about the Masons being bad; I'm referring to the constant denial of any group or organization outside of Freemasonry, who may be responsible for the corruption in today's world...

Instead, we have people labeling others as delusional conspiracy theorists/nuts....I'd like to point out that quite a few of our staff members here, believe in some type of global conspiracy, would you call them delusional nuts too?



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I thought the Masons had NOTHING to do with him?


I know you can be quite forgetful, but the arguement was whether or not he was a Mason (he was not) and not whether or not a book he edited is in a certain library.


Why are all these books on invocation of Angelic magic in the library of the Freemasons?


I have no idea, why do some people think marital rape is fine? You should ask the librarian of the Grand Lodge of Iowa why they have it in inventory.



edit on 28-1-2013 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer, but I still kinda like him



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Did you read the statment on the homepage? "The Library also collects materials dealing with non-Masonic topics. The Iowa Collection contains over 7,500 volumes dealing with Iowa history, government, social history and education. Additionally, the Library boasts large collections on religion/philosophy, history, literature, and biography."IML&M
This may provide you with the reasoning Masons may have books on all subjects....then again maybe not..
""Light" represents knowledge. All Freemasons continually seek (not take) more knowledge."

edit on 28-1-2013 by ParanoidAmerican because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by thelongjourney
 


Why are you so sure it doesn't exist? Calling people delusional and acting with a superiority complex, doesn't seem to be a hallmark of Freemasonry, from what I am to understand...
edit on 28-1-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)


Your just mad that you got debunked in the UCC delusion thread. I see now why a lodge would have rejected you, if you came to them with the attitude you do here.

It is now a superiority complex to actually be a freemason and tell people they are incorrect when making statements about my order and telling me that I secretly reject Jesus and help the mythical New World Order.

Welcome to the ignore list.
edit on 28-1-2013 by thelongjourney because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

I have no idea, why do some people think marital rape is fine? You should ask the librarian of the Grand Lodge of Iowa why they have it in inventory.


Not to mention we are getting down to desperate tactics when the argument is "OMG, one of your state grand lodges has a weird book in it!" Since when did having a book in a library represent an endorsement of it? Isnt a library supposed to be a place where you keep books of all kind?



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by thelongjourney
 


UCC delusion thread debunked? By my knowledge, you can't debunk something that can still be argued, and has....Debunking leaves no room for argument, which you ignored quite a few points that we posed....But by all means act like you are 'God'....

See what I'm talking about? I'm not mad, and you make many assumptions....I didn't 'come at the Lodge' like anything...I presented myself in a polite and respectful manner; I was rejected because of how honest I was about why I wanted to be a Mason, which is what I told you guys already...Repeatedly..I guess Sodium Fluoride is good for your brain isn't it? You are ridiculous...Conspiracies exist, whether you want them to or not...Vehemently denying them, doesn't make them any less true....Otherwise, who else puts the fluoride there, and what for? Dental decay? Well gee boy-o, I guess you missed the chemistry lesson where that's calcium fluoride that's good for your teeth, and not sodium fluoride; yet SF is the one they add to the water....SF will eat holes in your blood brain barrier, especially when it leaches additional aluminum...

The superiority complex had nothing to do with correcting anti-mason claims; it was in reference to acting like you are an infallible piece of flesh, who knows the answer to everything....Truth be told, you don't know some archetype of the NWO doesn't exist; you simply don't want it to, and believe it doesn't. You can't prove it doesn't exist, just like it would be hearsay on whether it does exist; mere opinions...

So question for ya : Are the ATS Staff Members here who believe in said conspiracy, delusional as well? Or do you just suffer from cognitive dissonance?
edit on 29-1-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)
edit on 29-1-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)
edit on 29-1-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by thelongjourney
 


If anything, you are the one who sounds mad.....I can't tell you how often I've seen this little rodeo between the Anti-Masons, and your brethren, but I never see them ignore someone just because they disagree...

This is a free-will planet you know; it would be pretty damn boring if everyone believed the same crap...

At Least 7 Conspiracies That Turned Out To Be True

The real list actually contains 30...

and this one...


In 1999, the King family conducted a civil case to consider the existence of an assassination conspiracy. The suit (for wrongful death) mentioned only Loyd Jowers by name, but also alleged government involvement.[3] The jury–six blacks and six whites—found that King had been the victim of assassination by a conspiracy involving the Memphis police as well as federal agencies. This verdict affirmed Ray's innocence, which the King family has always maintained.[47][53] William F. Pepper represented the King family in the trial.[54][55][56] The family requested a mere $100 in restitution to show that they were not pursuing the case for financial gain.
edit on 29-1-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 12:29 AM
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reply to post by thelongjourney
 


There are numerous conspiracies surounding secret societies, especially the more publicly known freemasons. When a person claims that freemasons worship lucifer there can be two causes:
The first is that they for some ignorant reason believe that even though they are not a mason, that they are privy to what masons do and are 'all about'.
The second reason a person might say that freemasons worship lucifer would be out of speculation and evidence that might provoke a reason to investigate the thought that freemasons worship lucifer.

To the OP, you sound pretty irked and personally motivated in creating this thread. Realize that no nonmasons know for sure what goes on behind the closed doors. Realize that this means all speculations and curious coincidences, things that might or might not lead to conspiracy theories regarding freemasonry can never truely be confirmed by a person until they themselves are a part of that secret society.
Because of this the situation is basically just you telling people "don't worry that's not what we do behind closed doors, you are not privy to what goes on - but if you believe me and take MY word for it, we don't worship lucifer" Which to about 90 percent of people is a legitimate answer, but to 10 percent this is back to square one: A secret society with secrets, and anyone not involved cannot truely say they know for sure what goes on within.
edit on 1/29/2013 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 02:01 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 

How so? The Anti-Christ will try to appear as Christ. We know this.
This is not something "we know" but rather something you apparently believe in. I disagree with this claim. The anti-Christ is not an individual but an action an individual may take, much like a satan. These words are mistakenly being used as nouns when they are originally defined as adjectives.

The anti-Christ is one whom is against the teachings of Christ. Judge not lest ye be judged, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you... and other such stuff. As you judge the Freemasons in the manner in which you have been you reveal beliefs and fears of your own. It is your judgment that is mirrored. The point being is to attempt to understand without judgment and only then will you be able to “Know”.


There are twins in all of religion. One is true and the other a counterfeit.
The “Good/evil” duality is two different sides of the same coin. They coexist and cannot be separated any more than you can get rid of only one side of a coin.


The mirror holds the choice we make.
I agree with this and so I would like to call attention to the context of your posts in this thread. You are accusing the Masons of dreadful actions and I wonder if this is actually how you feel about your own religious organization and beliefs. I sure hope this is not the case and more importantly I hope you understand my point.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 02:53 AM
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Thank you for your response, but it has left me a little confused.

You said:


Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by thelongjourney
 


As for the Masons, they are the Mystery Religion of Babylon. There is no secret here. God said, "Jacob (Farmer) have I loved and Esau (Hunter) have I hated." This is a direct reference to the system of Babylon that is founded on taking rather than giving. The farmer gives and the hunter takes. Follow the thread of truth from Jacob to Jesus and you get the will of God as giving. Follow the will of Esau to Nimrod and you get the will to take. Genesis 3 is all about taking knowledge, which is what the Masons (Builders) have always done. They build the outer temple of the world. This is idolatry and Paganism. Further, the subvert the law in a conspiracy against the people. This is the definition of a private association. It is private and not out in the open. Hidden. Occult. On the other hand, the church doors are open and there are no secrets. One takes and one gives.


edit on 27-1-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)


I then asked:


Originally posted by Jamjar
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


What does the following suggest?

"Not to be an enthusiast, persecutor or slanderer of religion, neither bending towards avarice, injustice, malice, revenge, nor the envy or contempt of mankind, but giving up every selfish propensity which might injure others."

Farmer or hunter?


To which you kindly replied:


Originally posted by EnochWasRight


A dishonest Farmer.


It is great that you can see the brotherhood as farmers instead of hunters as you previously stated, but I am left confused at the addition of 'dishonest'. I can only see the addition of this word to mean one of two things.

1. You are able to (wrongly) judge what is in our hearts, which is something I thought that only God has the ability to do.

Or

2. You are proving AugustusMasonicus correct in his assertion that you change things to suit your agenda, unless there is a bible quote that mentions "Dishonest farmer" that I am unaware of.

I hope you can clear up this confusion for me.
edit on 29-1-2013 by Jamjar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 05:24 AM
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reply to post by indigothefish
 


I agree. And the hope is that 1% of that 10% will be curious enough and have the testicular fortitude, to actually find out on their own, what the real truth is. They are the ones who come in with genuine questions and they are the ones who seek answers. Like a dry sponge looking for a puddle. Everything has a purpose.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 05:29 AM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Was the founder of OTO, Karl Kellner, a Freemason? No matter. The roots of the Mystery School come in all forms. One is like the other if the pursuit is taking knowledge rather than receiving knowledge. If the aim is a conspiracy against the laws (True Landmarks set by God), then Masonic landmarks are bogus. We are all builders and no oath can take this right away from anyone on the street. Associating with the architect is not earned. It's HIS decision alone and God can only give. It's his will be done, not "So mote it be." It's do unto others and not do for one's self. I could go on. It's we the people and not we of the grand lodge. Like it or not, our world reflects the ones who took it. Not for long.


Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I am sorry, but I have questions and seeing Crowley in full Masonic regalia makes me think he may have been one.



He is wearing OTO regalia. This has also been pointed out to you.

Another lie to further your agenda. But with you crying about being banned and then implying it had something to do with your "knowledge"
is just another example of how dishonest you really are.

Integrity=0

Jesus would not be proud of you.
edit on 28-1-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-1-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)


The real question is, did you get caught in another lie? Yep. Do you have any remorse? Nope.

The guy you keep claiming to follow, what's his name, it sounds like a landscaper......Jesus, that's it! If you follow him, shouldn't you try to be like him? Would he be telling lies to discredit us? would be be judging us while not actually knowing what we do? Somehow, I think not. That mirror you seem to be so fond of, perhaps a good look at it might help right now.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 



Which of these 25 Landmarks (linked below) would disqualify Crowley and the lodges he pledged?


Knowing nothing about the characteristics of his lodges, we still know that Crowley's organization violated Landmarks 5-8 and 17.


I never said Crowley represents all of Masonry.


You quote him in your "why Masons are bad" spiel. Given that there are many more Masons who would say something like 'Jesus Christ is Lord" or "I attend the local Baptist church", you obviously believe he holds more credibility on the matter than most other Masons.


As for Westboro, there are Baptists that are on the fringe.


But do you quote them as representative when talking about the Baptist denomination?


Yet, the Masons thrown on the robe of the leader and try to run a global cabal. They thrown on the hat of a general, after taking off the hat of a banker, to both fund and run wars in the name of world government and the "Great Work".


As evidenced by...well, nothing.


How can you help me see the difference between the average Mason and the ones funding and causing war for profit; building a NWO


Here's a simple test: if they're the former, you'll notice them actually existing.


If no, why do they use YOUR symbols?


"They" don't. You just assume everything that looks funny, from banking to children's cartoons, is necessarily symbolic, and that symbolism necessarily Masonic.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by VeritasAequitas
 

I didn't call anyone a delusional nut. Yes, I too believe there is corruption going on in this world. I don't know which groups are responsible for it, but many individuals are corrupt as well and contribute to it. I believe there is a push for a NWO, and I believe our rights are being stripped away daily. Believe me, I am not calling anyone a delusional nut, those aren't my words and I never used them. But as for myself, I personally can let go of the thought that the Masons are a corrupt, evil group, because I know a godly man who just happens to be my Grandfather who is/was a mason and he would NEVER participate in the satanic stuff that people suggest that masons do. Now, my Grandfather isn't high up in the organization, so if knowledge of the "real agenda" only comes with being a high member, then maybe he was not aware of it. I have no idea how it works, I just know that he won't talk about what goes on in their lodge. I think just because of its secrecy, it draws attention to it by conspiracy theorists. And yes, I am a conspiracy theorist or else I wouldn't be here. But please don't put words in my mouth. I am being respectful on here and not name calling or being rude and appreciate being treated the same way.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by justlittleoldme
 


I haven't said anything about the Masons being bad; I'm referring to the constant denial of any group or organization outside of Freemasonry, who may be responsible for the corruption in today's world...

Instead, we have people labeling others as delusional conspiracy theorists/nuts....I'd like to point out that quite a few of our staff members here, believe in some type of global conspiracy, would you call them delusional nuts too?


I think there has been a misunderstanding- it's my fault and I apologize. When I posted that comment about Masons not being bad, I didn't mean to reply to you as if I was addressing you. Instead, I meant to post a reply to this general discussion and hit the wrong button.

I apologize, I am new here to this site and apparently have a lot to learn about which button to hit to respond to an individual and which button to hit to respond to the thread in general. I am sorry, I didn't mean to respond directly to you, but was just adding a comment to the general discussion in this thread. Sorry for the mix-up.



posted on Jan, 29 2013 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by ParanoidAmerican
 


If the Freemason's are so charitable and looking out for mankind, why is it that their symbols represent possible Doomsday dates and they have not declared their knowledge to save lives? The letters SHTWSSTK translate to 14 alpha delta which represents 2014 AD. The set-square, compass and "G" translate to 25 December of the same year. There isn't long to go but they have not said anything yet, have they? They wouldn't want to be taking advantage of the situation, would they? If they are not luciferians in practice, I would say that they are at least in spirit.
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