Regarding those who claim freemasons worship lucifer -, page 2


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reply posted on 27-1-2013 @ 07:44 PM by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by OnTheLevel213



I think I am being misunderstood here....Those arguments are argument I disagree with, not my opinion on Masons, but others. I will agree that betterment is (a) main premise, I should have included (a) in the first statment.
edit on 27-1-2013 by ParanoidAmerican because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 27-1-2013 @ 11:36 PM by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by EnochWasRight



From your source..

Although, unbeknown to him at the time of joining, all his affiliations were with unrecognized and irregular bodies, Crowley’s status as a freemason went largely unquestioned by non-masons throughout his life.



reply posted on 28-1-2013 @ 05:12 AM by network dude
reply to post by EnochWasRight



But no matter how many times you are told the truth, you still seem to ignore it. I guess God doesn't mind if you lie just a little, here and there right? I mean, it's for the greater good right? You might convince a freemason that he is wrong and needs to repent by lying to him, so perhaps God won't mind at all.

You have no integrity.



reply posted on 28-1-2013 @ 07:08 AM by network dude
reply to post by EnochWasRight



Well then, If you are convinced that Crowley represents all of masonry, you will have to accept Jeffrey Dahmer as a representative of Christianity.

Almost all serial killers start quoting one verse after another from the Christian Bible. This shows most serial killers had strong religious upbringing, have been studying the bible for years and were still very Christian religious when they were murdering.

source

You can't have it both ways.


reply posted on 28-1-2013 @ 12:15 PM by Jamjar
reply to post by EnochWasRight



What does the following suggest?

"Not to be an enthusiast, persecutor or slanderer of religion, neither bending towards avarice, injustice, malice, revenge, nor the envy or contempt of mankind, but giving up every selfish propensity which might injure others."

Farmer or hunter?


reply posted on 28-1-2013 @ 04:19 PM by EnochWasRight
Help me understand. When you say, "Adhere to Ancient Landmarks," how does this apply to the doctrine of exclusive territorial jurisdiction? I would assume that when you say landmarks, you are really speaking of principles of actions. In this case, we are speaking of a boundary set up against innovation, much like a river that cannot be moved and blocked. Speaking of Crowley, we are seeing a man who innovates and moves ahead of the pack. My assumption is that this is the main reason such a Mason would be distanced from the herd. Considering the English Grand Lodge does not recognize landmarks, how do you define their status?

Which of these 25 Landmarks (linked below) would disqualify Crowley and the lodges he pledged?

According to most masonic constitutions, Crowley would be innocent of all charges by this standard. "Heresy, for instance, is not a masonic crime. Masons are obliged to use the words of the Old Charges, "to that religion in which all men agree, leaving their particular opinions to themselves;" and, therefore, as long as a Mason acknowledges his belief in the existence of one God, a lodge can take no action on his peculiar opinions, however heterodox they may be." Even if he subverts the laws of a state, he can only be "be pitied as an unhappy man."

This next one seems to be broken on ATS regularly by Masons: "... imprudent conversation in relation to Masonry in the presence of uninitiated strangers; refusal to relieve a worthy distressed Brother, if in your power; and all "wrangling, quarreling, back-biting, and slander."

Does this website contradict these landmarks? If not, does it disqualify a Mason from the lodge by conflict with his constitution? Who makes these decisions? I am sorry, but I have questions and seeing Crowley in full Masonic regalia makes me think he may have been one.




25 Landmarks from An Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry” of 1858:

In the early eighteenth century, English Grand Master George
Payne, in compiling his General Regulations, determined that “[e]very annual Grand-Lodge has
an inherent power and authority to make new Regulations, or to alter these, for the real benefit of
this ancient Fraternity: Provided always that the old Landmarks be carefully preserved . . .”

1. Modes of recognition.
2. The division of symbolic Masonry in three degrees.
3. The legend of the Third Degree being the essence and identity of Freemasonry.
4. Government of the Fraternity by an elected Grand Master.
5-8. The prerogative of the Grand Master a) to preside over every assembly of the Craft, b) to grant dispensation for conferring degrees at irregular times, c) for opening and holding lodges and d) to make Masons at sight.
9. The necessity for masons to congregate in lodges.
10. The Government of a lodge by a Master and two Wardens.
11. The necessity that every lodge should be duly tiled.
12-14. The right of every Mason to a) be represented to all general meetings of the Craft; b) to appeal from a lodge’s decision to Grand Lodge; c) to visit every regular lodge (right of visitation).
15. No unknown visitor to enter a lodge without examination.
16. No lodge to interfere with the business of another lodge, or give degrees to Brethren who are members of other lodges.
17. Every Mason to be amenable to the laws and regulations of the Masonic jurisdiction in which he resides. Non-affiliation, a Masonic offence, does not exempt a Mason from Masonic jurisdiction.
18. A candidate for initiation to be a man -unmutilated, free-born, and of mature age. A woman, a cripple, or a slave, or one born in slavery, is disqualified.
19,20. Belief in a) the existence of God as the Grand Architect of the Universe, and b) resurrection to a future life.
21. The Book of the Law to have a place in every lodge. It is that volume which, by the religion of the country, “is believed to contain the revealed will of the Grand Architect of the Universe”.
22. The equality of all Masons.
23. Secrecy. “If divested of its secret character, it would loose its identity and cease to be Freemasonry”.
24. The foundation of a speculative science upon an operative art, and the symbolic use and explanation of the terms of that art, for the purposes of religious or moral teaching. “The Temple of Solomon was the symbolic cradle of the Institution”.
25. The crowning landmark is that these landmarks can never be changed.


Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Originally posted by EnochWasRight
He was connected to Masonic ritual, considered himself a Mason and participated with lodges. Recognized or not, that matter is irrelevant.


It is highly relevant.

Any group can start a lodge and claim they are 'Masons', just as Crowely's unrecognized lodge, this does not make them such. If they do not adhere to the Ancient Landmarks and tenets of the Fraternity they will remain justly clandestine and irregular.




reply posted on 28-1-2013 @ 04:38 PM by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by EnochWasRight



Hey, doesn't Enoch's name translate into 'Initiated' in English? So you are running around with a forerunner of the Masons name as yours, telling masons that they are way off? Doesn't sound right logically...
edit on 28-1-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 28-1-2013 @ 04:40 PM by AugustusMasonicus
Originally posted by EnochWasRight
When you say, "Adhere to Ancient Landmarks," how does this apply to the doctrine of exclusive territorial jurisdiction? I would assume that when you say landmarks, you are really speaking of principles of actions. In this case, we are speaking of a boundary set up against innovation, much like a river that cannot be moved and blocked.


The main purpose of the Landmarks in this context is in regards recognition, to be considered Regular certain Landmarks must be observed. Masonic principles, truth, charity, hope, faith, etc are immemorial and as such need no 'innovation'.

Speaking of Crowley, we are seeing a man who innovates and moves ahead of the pack. My assumption is that this is the main reason such a Mason would be distanced from the herd. Considering the English Grand Lodge does not recognize landmarks, how do you define their status?


The United Grand Lodge of England strictly observes one Landmark, the most important and the one that Crowely's lodge of choice failed to uphold:

...a professed belief in TGAOTU is an Ancient Landmark of the Order and the only one specifically defined as
such by the United Grand Lodge of England.
Source


This next one seems to be broken on ATS regularly by Masons: "... imprudent conversation in relation to Masonry in the presence of uninitiated strangers; refusal to relieve a worthy distressed Brother, if in your power; and all "wrangling, quarreling, back-biting, and slander."


I see no discussion of portions of the ritual that fall under this category, I have not seen a Brother ask for help and been refused nor have I seen Masons engaging in "wrangling, quarreling, back-biting, and slander".

Does this website contradict these landmarks?


What website?

Who makes these decisions?


Fellow Masons.

I am sorry, but I have questions and seeing Crowley in full Masonic regalia makes me think he may have been one.


If I trotted down to the hopsital and threw on some doctors scrubs would you want me operating on you? If no, why not, I look like a doctor?


edit on 28-1-2013 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer



reply posted on 28-1-2013 @ 04:50 PM by EnochWasRight
Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to
post by EnochWasRight



Hey, doesn't Enoch's name translate into 'Initiated' in English? So you are running around with a forerunner of the Masons name as yours, telling masons that they are way off? Doesn't sound right logically...
edit on 28-1-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)


Such irony, I know. Enoch was a builder. We are all builders. The mind IS the builder. Masons have no claim over this title.


reply posted on 28-1-2013 @ 04:51 PM by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by network dude



Good point; that is indeed OTO regalia, and not Masonic....There is a very big difference...


reply posted on 28-1-2013 @ 04:59 PM by EnochWasRight
Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to
post by network dude



Good point; that is indeed OTO regalia, and not Masonic....There is a very big difference...


Before he wasn't a Mason, he was. We are all builders.
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