Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists To Graduate High School

If it is written with the same framework as this oath:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

or this:

Solemnly, freely, and without mental reservation, I hereby renounce under oath all allegiance to any foreign state. My fidelity and allegiance from this day forward is to the United States of America. I pledge to support, honor, and be loyal to the United States, its Constitution, and its laws. Where and if lawfully required, I further commit myself to defend the Constitution and laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, either by military, noncombatant, or civilian service. This I do solemnly swear, so help me God.

Then, afaik, you are not required by federal law to say 'so help me God'. You can leave it out if you wish. Usually they will ask you in a question format, but in a split sentence like

"This you do solemnly swear, so help you God?" And you can say "This I do solemnly swear".

I'm graduated and not from AZ, but are they really trying to tell people they must be a religion. What is next, force you to be in a political party? I am not for or against any religion. In fact I literally don't care whether it is real or not or who is right. But it's absurd to make someone register for religion or you can't graduate high school. We aren't Nazis, we are Americans. What happened to the land of the free?

Edit: I realize this isn't so much about religion as it started off sounding. But I still think it's bull that you must freely sign an oath. Anyone else smell something is up with this? We will give you a diploma that you worked your life up till now to get, but only if you promise to hunt terrorists of any kind.

reply to post by seeker1963

I might also add, that I proved to you your whole OP is ridiculous! Athiests do not believe in God. Right? Then why be in an uproar, over taking an oath to something you believe is nonexistent?????

Why the uproar? Too funny.

There is no way in fiery hell if instead of forcing atheists to make an oath to god, the religious in that school were forced to give oath to Shiva, you would be so flippant.

Seriously. No way in hell. The religious in this country would be in uproar if the word 'god' was replaced with a specific god of a non-Christian religion. WHY would you or any religious care...since you don't believe in that god...right??? Make an oath to Islam's Allah or you don't graduate! Stop getting your panties in a bunch..

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

 

Seriously. No way in hell. The religious in this country would be in uproar if the word 'god' was replaced with a specific god of a non-Christian religion.

This is true but I would hope, though probably not realistic, that my fellow atheists would be rational about the situation and not give in to the emotionalism and panty bunching that the religious often give in to.

If they're atheist they shouldn't mind lieing or telling truth under gods name. Since they don't believe and they won't be consequences right?

reply to post by daskakik


Well I am not an atheist but I am an anti-theist. This isn't about atheism really. That's why I brought up the 'other gods' point. It's about being forced to lie. I understand the principle of an oath, and not wanting to do so disingenuously, which is what this is asking of atheists. I don't think it's being sensitive at all...unless integrity is a trivial matter.

reply to post by RightlyCurious

If they're atheist they shouldn't mind lieing or telling truth under gods name. Since they don't believe and they won't be consequences right?

So you're saying since atheists don't fear hell and holy punishment they have no other motives for wanting to be honest?

No way this bull will stand.I am a Christian and the inquisition was a bad idea, we need not start ostricizing people of other faiths or no faith.
What are we liberals?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

It really isn't a matter of integrity, in this case. What exactly does "So help me god" mean? It means that the person taking the oath is asking for god's help and it is also supposed to imply that if the person doesn't keep the oath that god will be displeased.

To an atheist both of those things are trivial since we don't expect the help and that implication that comes with it.

This is part of the reason I have always leaned more to the left...the right is fanatical. For a group who wishes to do away with all unions, and further make the proletariat a slave to the bourgeoisie, how can they still speak from their moral high-horse? There is a blatant contradiction in the two ideas. There are some republicans I like, but people like O'reilly, who are obnoxious and a lot of the time just plain wrong, seems to be the status quo. People on both ends of the spectrum need to learn how to side with issues, not political parties.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

How come you are equating political leaning to hard Marxist theory?

reply to post by daskakik

To an atheist both of those things are trivial since we don't expect the help and that implication that comes with it.

I simply wouldn't want anything false to be in an oath about truth. Pretty straightforward to me.

Not expecting gods help implies the falsehood of the declaration. It's still non-truth. From that point it's trivial to you, which is perfectly valid, you have your reasons for not being bothered. Like I said, to me, honesty is important to integrity. I mean what does an oath even really represent if not complete and full honesty?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


there is already a thread for this. the search button is your friend.

as to the content... forget the fact that it mentions god...its making you swear an oath of allegiance so you can get your diploma....u know, the diploma you earned, by sitting through 12 years of their #ty, half-true, slanted, biased, spun propaganda indoctrination...

kinda reminds me of that thing in starship troopers about how service guarantees citizenship...kinda scary...

Needless to say, having students to make a promise to a mythological being (even that don't believe in) in a public school is stupid. Granted it won't stop Atheists from graduating (there are some who are fine with saying the last part), but it's still stupid nonetheless.

What really needs to talked about is the purpose of oaths for graduation in general. Getting good grades and having to deal with 12 years of school should be good enough qualifications for graduation, no need for some silly oath.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

 

I mean what does an oath even really represent if not complete and full honesty?

Objectively, it is nothing more than ceremony.

An atheist can see the last phrase as trivial and still strive to uphold the parts of the oath which are important.

I never understand why people get so upset over the slightest little thing. People this days. Just say it and get it over with.

reply to post by daskakik

An atheist can see the last phrase as trivial and still strive to uphold the parts of the oath which are important.

I thought I acknowledged that in my post. Of course atheists are free to do that. I just differ in opinion on that aspect being trivial.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


You do realise America is a Christian nation right? Over 400 court rulings and a Supreme Court ruling have stated America is a Christian nation. One of the Supreme judges even wrote a book on why the ruling was declared.

So, sorry, if I didn't believe in a god, I could care less what god i swore to. He isn't even real, right?

In one of the Supreme Court rulings, it was declared Christianity is part of the common law of the land. If you don't like it, rebel.

Any time I see someone with a misleading title like this one I question their motives, especially when they appear to be for or against one of the two mainstream parties. Seriously I don't see how someone who doesn't believe in God could possibly believe in either side of our corrupt political system. Anyway, bottom line is I agree that it is wrong to force someone to say anything to graduate high school, regardless of if you believe in a God our not. No one should be forced to do anything against their will or beliefs.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

I was pointing out why a person can do that and why it is trivial. An oath doesn't, as your question put forward, really represent complete and full honesty. Like all things in life, the words are only as good as the person saying them.