Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists To Graduate High School

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

and your point is what?

My point is, that your a hypocrit!

You are trying to do what my government, already does very well, and that is squak about nonsense to get people to become more divided!

blithley ignoring that if there wasn't nonsense to "squawk" about then I wouldn't have done so......

Also, the fact that you are not even a US citizen ans come on here stirring the pot!

so you are happy not knowing about stupid stuff that gets done??

I might also add, that I proved to you your whole OP is ridiculous! Athiests do not believe in God. Right? Then why be in an uproar, over taking an oath to something you believe is nonexistent????? That makes the whole idea of taking an oath nothing more than a mere formality does it not?

Only if you have no conscience or morals and are happy to tell lies.

contrary to your obviously limited world view atheists are not all like that.

Continue your ridiculous crusade to futher separate those of us who actually LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY! I love how you try to come across as respecting "SOME" peoples rights, while going on in topics relating to the 2nd, denying those people theirs!

go on - link to 1 example where I have denied anyone any rights under the 2nd.

Edit: Also to add, this was already posted. You just chose to pick a site that twisted it as something to be against Athiests. Nuff said! As I have already said, I am against our youth being made to swear and oath, to something they have already worked for and earned! GET IT?

Absolutely - as am I.

but in addition there is a bucketload of evidence that there is a fundamentalist nut-job conspiracy to turn the US into a theocratic x-ian state - yuo can choose to ignore it if you want - or even be complicit in it - but I can still point it out as much as I like.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Is it to much to ask that you get the facts right?

HB 2647

AN ACT



amending Title 15, chapter 7, article 1, Arizona Revised Statutes, by adding section 15-701.03; relating to school curriculum.





(TEXT OF BILL BEGINS ON NEXT PAGE)







Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:

Section 1. Title 15, chapter 7, article 1, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 15-701.03, to read:

START_STATUTE

15-701.03. Graduation requirement; constitutional oath

Beginning in the 2013‑2014 school year, In addition to fulfilling the course of study and assessment requirements prescribed in this chapter, before a pupil is allowed to graduate from a public high school in this state, the principal or head teacher of the school shall verify in writing that the pupil has recited the following oath:

I, _________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge these duties; So help me God.

END_STATUTE




©2007 Arizona State Legislature.

It has nothing to do with religion...

Secondly the entire bill is pretty assinine when its required to graduate when the oath itself states its taken freely..

Are the lawmakers in the correct position by requiring this? No. Is anyone hurt by this? The article would believe you to think so, but no.

A creationist will have to lie on his or her biology test in order to graduate, but it is still so. An atheist has to lie in order to graduate... big deal.

I also wonder, when is it such a big deal for atheist to lie? They aren't held accountable by any higher power, so what difference does it make?

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists To Graduate High School

w ww.patheos.com

A group of Arizona politicians — all Republicans, of course — have proposed a law (House Bill 2467) requiring public high school students to recite the following oath in order to graduate:
"I, _______, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic,....so help me god"

(visit the link for the full news article)

No, it simply wouldn't allow atheists who refuse to say who help me god.
Considering that there must be a separation between church and state & this is clearly linking the two, it will either not be passed or it will be disregarded.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


this is one of those issues that are meant to take heat off the real issues i think.

if it does pass how easy is it to just say the words grab your diploma and dont look back. this is not that big of a deal.

if they were forcing people to practice so many hours of worship per week in order to graduate that would be an issue.

this is small fries

This has no chance of passing because it`s illegal and unconstitutional, it`s sad that these idiots are wasting time making religious statements like this when there are so many more important things that they should be working to fix.
Our representatives are fiddling while Rome burns.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul


Y'all are so worried about non-existent gun bans, non-existant threats to your constitutional rights, you are missing the REAL danger to the USA - religious idiots!

This is not some mealy-mothed little imagined slight or restriction on some constitutional right - this is an all out assault by christian fundamentalist, in hte guise of hte GOP, to turn american into a fundamentalist theocracy.

The obvious assalt is to the 1st Amendment, but how long befoer they start making proposals for real changes to teh 2nd?

the 2nd amendment follows a clause in the British Bill of Rights that gives PROTESTANTS the right to bear arms (as opposed to Catholics, what with the religious natuer or war & politics of the time)......I reckon it's a short hop for these guys to start proposing some religious restrictions for the 2nd too...

(Yes I know this could be in American political madness, but IMO it is also seriosuly conspiratorial - a well known conspiracy that no-one wants to talk about!)

w ww.patheos.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

No...people are concerned about their 2nd amendment, because the next thing to go would be the first, as (after first glance) seems to be the case here....everyone just "loves" this "assault" weapons ban....and everyone will see just how in tune with the world they really are once they realize the can no longer say what they want...

Doesn't matter. The official language will soon be Spanish.

The old English word "God" will be dying with the English language...less people speaking it every single day.

It blows my mind how many people are willing to advocate lying. And I'm offended by the assumption that a lack of belief in god automatically makes me morally objectionable. I abide by all the commandments that relate to mans dealing with his fellow man, not because God commands it, or because I fear some repercussions in the afterlife, but, because I can see with my own internal moral compass that it is right to do so. This doesn't mean that I'm anti-any religious people. My personal belief is that anyone may believe what that want, so long as in the practice of their beliefs they do no harm to any person, and they respect the right of others to believe as they choose.

reply to post by GRS1234

any one who dosent believes in god is dangerous in my opinion

It is my opinion that your opinion is ignorant, judgmental, and wrong.

Though I have been discussing the religious angle of this oath, as that was the angle the OP pursued. I do have to agree with others who have stated, that is not the main issue, nobody should be required to take an oath to receive a diploma they earned. And swearing to support a constitution that they may or may not have been taught about is nonsensical besides.

And?
Back when I was in school, we had to recite the Pledge of Allegiance every day, which included God. This is no different. It's public school, what do you expect? Forced conformity, no less.

If I were an atheist, saying that wouldnt mean anything to me. Id say it and be on my way, chuckling about the matter. Nothing to lose sleep over.

So wait. Does an atheist turn into a Christian by saying these two lines?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

my problem with this isn't that it states at the end "so help me god" but that you would have to swear some kind of oath at all... really?? because i graduate in the united states i'm now swearing some kind of oath to the country? what about those foriegn exchange students who graduate here? plenty of illegal children too... (just sayin)o. I graduated from college without having to swear on oath to my country... what is this all about?.. i don't get it seems a little hail hitlerish to me.

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
Probably, but this article is focusing entirely on this one line like just by saying it, affirms your belief in God.

Every single word is important when dealing with legal rhetoric.

Look at the arguments that take place over the words in certain amendments of the constitution. How many threads did we have where posters sat here and analyzed tons of documents trying to clarify what was meant by the phrase "natural born citizen"?

When you think about it we might be asking to much. Weve already asked republicans to stop beating their wives and murdering homosexuals. For a century this is alot of progress in human terms.

I think we need to take a step back and look at how far they have already come. If atheist children need to pretend to be religious to make them happy untill after they graduate.... i mean, we should put this in perspective.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

"I, _______, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic,....so help me god"

OH! I was expecting something different.

Title is just a tad misleading, don't you think?

I would agree. Also, I have been around Atheists who are very intolerant of Christians. What goes around comes around.

I'm curious about something. All those who have advocated just taking the oath, getting your diploma and moving on, because Atheists don't believe in God, so no harm no foul. What if it said so help me Odin? Would you say it and just move on because you don't believe in Odin?

As was stated by others, there are many more reasons to be against this then simply the inclusion of God in the oath.

My proposal would be that if they want to improve constitutional knowledge and reaffirm a belief in upholding and protecting the constitution then they should change their curriculum to require a course that teaches the constitution and bill of rights, at the end of said class they can ask the students to voluntarily take an oath that respects their religious beliefs or lack thereof, replacing God with the deity you worship if you worship one and replacing so help me god with something like "on my life and honor" for those with no religious view. No required oath and I for one would be interested in how many chose to take that after having been taught about the founding documents.

If it does go through, I smell a law suit challenge from atheists.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. It's never gonna pass. What are they going to do? Close all public schools? More and more people are realizing religion is not for them. They're gonna have a real problem with the future work force , let me tell you that.

Originally posted by Taliesien333
I'm curious about something. All those who have advocated just taking the oath, getting your diploma and moving on, because Atheists don't believe in God, so no harm no foul. What if it said so help me Odin? Would you say it and just move on because you don't believe in Odin?

As was stated by others, there are many more reasons to be against this then simply the inclusion of God in the oath.

My proposal would be that if they want to improve constitutional knowledge and reaffirm a belief in upholding and protecting the constitution then they should change their curriculum to require a course that teaches the constitution and bill of rights, at the end of said class they can ask the students to voluntarily take an oath that respects their religious beliefs or lack thereof, replacing God with the deity you worship if you worship one and replacing so help me god with something like "on my life and honor" for those with no religious view. No required oath and I for one would be interested in how many chose to take that after having been taught about the founding documents.

What's wrong with Odin? He is a hardazz. As an agnostic I would prefer him or Zeus over the abrahamic god. I'd be honoured.