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Should England have it's own Parliament?

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posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by grainofsand
 


Phew - thank goodness - after 2 pages of posts you're actually hearing me.




posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by babybunnies
England already has local councils who decide issues of a local nature.

If I were a British taxpayer, I'd hate to be paying for another level of dysfunctional English Government.

english councils are local govt. all UK areas have these.

An english parliament would be a place where English MPs met and discussed English issues. At present Scotland Wales and NI has such a council.

England does not, so Scottish MPs who do not have constiuents in England can vote on English matters.

For example it now costs £9000 a year to go to university in England - it used to be £0.00 a few years ago,
Anyway there was in increase in cost from £3000 I think to 9 grand because the Scottish MPs voted on this matter - because they were told to by the whips.

However - Scotland university education costs £ nil, to everyone who is scottish and from the EU, but the English have to pay 9 grand a year even if they go to uni in Scotland.

The English MPs are not allowed to vote on english matters but the scots vote on English business,

We are not talking local counsellors here we are talking MPs. [ members of parliament]

the Scots can afford free education because they get money from the english tax payers - oh the irony !!


edit on 27-1-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-1-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by grainofsand
 


Phew - thank goodness - after 2 pages of posts you're actually hearing me.
It was difficult when your message was presented so cryptically but hey, we got there, you appear now to agree that non English MP's have no right to vote on solely English matters and English taxpayers should not have to subsidise better Welsh, Scottish and N.Irish public services than English people enjoy. That is a position I support.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by christina-66my reference to consensus was in relation to the points raised in this thread about the unfairness of the Scots mp's having a say on English only matters and that the Barnett formula gives the English a rough deal.....I AGREE
Cool, we have no argument then


But that does not change the fact that the dysfunction in parliament still exists !!!



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by christina-66my reference to consensus was in relation to the points raised in this thread about the unfairness of the Scots mp's having a say on English only matters and that the Barnett formula gives the English a rough deal.....I AGREE
Cool, we have no argument then


But that does not change the fact that the dysfunction in parliament still exists !!!
Or the unjustifiable English taxpayer funding of Scottish, Welsh and NI public services.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 




You don't have to agree with me - but this is what happened under New Labour's watch.


So if what you say is true then that means that New Labour is responsible and not Scotland.
The bulk of Labour MP's came from English constituencies, primarily in North East and North West England, Yorkshire and The Midlands.



New Labour only got in because of Scotland's vote.


It's at least just as accurate to say they only got in because of Northern England's vote.



No way would they have got in if it was just England voting.


True - but no way would Cameron and Thatcher ever have got in if only northern England was voting in an election - in which case we'd still have a manufacturing base and higher employment - should I hold that against every 'southerner'?



The past two PMs were scottish as were most of the govt.


One of which representated an English constituency.
And most of their governments were not Scottish.



sold our gold
bankrupted us
signed up to all the EU treaties without the mandate of the people.
bailed out the banks with tax payers money.
Allowed UK PLC to be sold .. across the world, with the inherent loss of revenue that entailed.
Lost control of our borders.
Deliberately did not police our borders.
Changed the demographic of the country.
Sent us to war on a lie.
Caused pain and untold misery.


Now I would love to argue the toss with you about the accuracy and relevance of many of these points, another time and plce methinks, but even if we accept that you are correct all that it shows is that New Labour were irresponsible and incompetent - it wasn't a Scottish conspiracy to 'destroy England' and you are being irrational by trying to blame a whole nation for the policies of a cross-national, democratically elected government.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by grainofsand
 

sorry but im from the states so i really shouldnt be here but in all fairness i think you guys should its completly not my right to say so though as i feel i am a little over the line rather even if this supports your opinion or not



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
Hate to point out the obvious here but England already has its own parliament, it just imposes it's will on the Scottish and Welsh. In fact with a devolved Scotland and Wales, there would be little left but an English parliament.

That is disinformation !!!!!!!!!!!!!


England does NOT have its own parliament - Scottish MPs can vote on English matters.

If it is an English parliament why are MPs from constituencies not in England voting on matters that are of no conern or business of theirs.

The labour govt used Scottish MPs to vote on english matters - all the time.


Bloody whinging pom [shakes head].

England should have its own dedicated parliament. A national parliament like the UK Parliament can't be expected to provide arts grants to a deaf lesbian Marxist interpretive dance troupe in Coventry one minute while debating how best to support the Syrian rebels the next.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 09:24 PM
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I am from the UK
I am from Scotland.

England already has its own parliament!
Really



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 


Sounds like you don't like the Scottish

Who put these measures in place?
Someone said many of parliament is Scottish, or used to be.
Blair showing how much he loved Scotland right enough



Regards



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
If you look how Switzerland works, if a petition gets a certain amount of support, it gets debated by parliament and if they move it forward to legislation then it gets voted on by the electorate... Me and Freeborn

Direct democracy would not work in the UK like it does in Switzerland because we are very differing Countires. Just look at what people vote for on stuff like pop idol, it is all reactionary and votes made on emotion rather than substance. Many of our electorate are ignorant in terms of politics and policies and would no doubt vote for whatever the Sun or the Daily Mail told them to anyway. Direct Democracy in this Country would be a complete Disaster.


It would work, what you're doing is what all the idiots in Westminster do, which is assume people are morons and not capable of making informed decisions. I actually find that attitude somewhat irritating.



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


They should do what they do in Japan and make any manifesto pledge legally binding.

What we have at the moment is a book of false promises which are ignored once they take the reigns.



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 03:52 AM
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reply to post by grainofsand
 



It was difficult when your message was presented so cryptically but hey, we got there, you appear now to agree that non English MP's have no right to vote on solely English matters and English taxpayers should not have to subsidise better Welsh, Scottish and N.Irish public services than English people enjoy. That is a position I support.


Cryptic? I don't think so. My earlier posts (among other things) stated;


As you are aware and has already been pointed out to you the West Lothian question is an old one.......It's not fair and I don't defend it.

.........Even Barnett stated his formula was unfair and was never meant to go on this long (it was based on population numbers only - not relative need).

I'm actually with you insofar as I do believe that England should have its own assembly. It's not me you should be putting in the dock - but the system that brought us to this.



The West Lothian question was never resolved because the Scottish Executive came into being when the LABOUR party was in power in Westminster - they needed the Scottish Labour Mp's votes. It's not fair and it's not right (and I've already said that - now I've said it twice).



The fact that West Lothian question (Scottish mp's having a say in English affairs that wouldn't affect the Scots) was not resolved is certainly because it worked to the labour party's benefit when they were in power - no doubt about that at all. I say (once a bloody gain) it is not fair.

I also posted that one way or another the Barnett Formula is on its way out.

So any other issues with me given that I do agree that in view of the Welsh, Irish and Scottish devolved powers that England should have its own assembly?



What is the point? That the English are getting a raw deal? I concur. The Scots ain't having an easy ride either?

That the Barnett formula is unfair? I concur to a point - Scotland's geography means it needs that higher per capita spend (a lot more distance to cover with relatively few people living there).

The West Lothian Question - again I concur - it's not fair.




I'm not trying to defend it - I agree with you. Why can't you get that? Why adopt such an antagonistic attitude when you don't have to?


Personally I don't think I could have been much clearer in my posts. I think you were simply hoping for an argument and not a discussion, don't you?

If you get past the petty blame game - and stop holding ordinary people responsible for your problems, people who suffer equally as much from the ineptitude of our political masters as you do - you might get your head wrapped round the concept that once you have actually identified the problem i.e. 'It's not fair', the next step is to start working out the solution.









edit on 28-1-2013 by christina-66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
I think the Scottish Parliament should be allowed to extend it's territorial limit to include Newcastle, Carlisle, Lancaster, Preston etc. The inhabitants of those predominately working class cities have more in common with their Scottish brethren than with the Lucindas and Nigels of Hampstead.


Not at all. I live just 30 miles west of Carlisle, I am a proud Englishman with Scottish roots (Dads side, Hooper - English, Mums side, Elder - Scottish). I love Scotland, it is a beautiful country and I like spending as much time as I can there.

But I will always be British first, English second, proud I have some Scot in me.

The OP is right though, the English tax payer has to foot the bill for Wales and Scotland, and get very little in return, and it isn't right.

Either we are a United Kingdom that shares equally, or we are a United Kindom with our own Governments and just share the culture, friendship etc.

Cumbria (Workington, Carlisle etc) is a part of England, and should remain so.



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
reply to post by HelenConway
 


I doubt yours is a workable suggestion.

Honestly. I've been to those northern English cities. Apart from the accents you'd think you were in Scotland, the people are just so alike in attitude towards their "masters down south". They despise London politicians as much as the Scots !

At least give the northern english a choice.


Not sure I understand what you are trying to say - when you say 'London politicians' do you mean MPs for constituencies in London, or any MP (including their own) based on where Parliament is located? If it's the latter then they should think about that when choosing their MP.

BTW, don't you think there are Scottish people who will equally despise their 'masters in Holyrood'?



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by grainofsand
reply to post by LeBombDiggity
 
If English workers taxes were spent solely in England and distributed by an English parliament I would suggest there would be much greater assistance for Northern England.
At the very least the votes by Northern English MP's could not be affected by the MP's from Welsh, Scottish and NI - why the apparent resistance to creating a more equitable union?



Why the resistance? Labour has relied on Scotland and Wales to get into power and hang on to it many times in the past, it would be a potential political suicide for them.



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by christina-66
If you get past the petty blame game - and stop holding ordinary people responsible for your problems,
I have blamed no-one in this thread.


people who suffer equally as much from the ineptitude of our political masters as you do
Well, not really equal when we consider free prescriptions and university tuition fees.


you might get your head wrapped round the concept that once you have actually identified the problem i.e. 'It's not fair', the next step is to start working out the solution.
Yep, an English parliament or the banning of Non-English MP's voting on English issues. Oh, and the ending of English taxpayers subsidising improved services for Wales, Scotland and NI. That would fix it nicely.



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by HelenConway
 



You are having a laugh mate !!
I think England should extend her territories to include Normandy and Brittany for the same reasons .. plus they used to be English [well defo Normandy].


I have to correct you on this one. When was Normandy EVER English??? The Normans were actually 'the men of the north' and came from Scandinavia - they had been in France for just over 100 years when they invaded England. (Angle Land)

).




Whe William was King and his descendents and when Henry the 8th and the 7th were on the throne, Also at various other times - it is only 25 miles away after all.

Up until 1204, during the reign of England's King John, The English Kings -. his successors, however, fought to regain control of Normandy - hence the wars.

Normandy was occupied by English forces during the Hundred Years' War in 1345–1360 and again in 1415–1450.

I did not say Brittany had ever been england as such just that they are the same people as the British - and have a similar language and roots to the Cornish and Welsh and was settled by British in Roman times.

So why not be part of England if Scotland is going to take English territories at Diggy suggested? I was half joking BTW.


edit on 28-1-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by shauny
reply to post by HelenConway
 


Sounds like you don't like the Scottish

Who put these measures in place?
Someone said many of parliament is Scottish, or used to be.
Blair showing how much he loved Scotland right enough



Regards


I have no problem what so ever with the people of Scotland - i have an issue with the politics and the politicians.
When I say 'Scotland' I mean the leaders. Blair is Scottish and he appointed a Scottish parliament in England - they wrecked the joint !



posted on Jan, 28 2013 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by grainofsand
 


Don't believe the hype - free prescription and so-called free education comes at a price.

e.g.


Transport Scotland, which oversees the 2115-mile network of motorways and primary A-roads, has told The Herald there is a maintenance backlog of £755m, up 6% on last year, when a national summit was ordered to address the declining state of Scotland's roads.


While the SNP have set aside only an extra £5 million for repairs.

ETA And free care for the elderly is simply a fallacy.


edit on 28-1-2013 by christina-66 because: (no reason given)




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