Should England have it's own Parliament?

reply to post by grainofsand


If i am honest I think England owes NI and Wales, so they should stay in the union if they want.
That is not the case with Scotland who as I have said have destroyed England.
What I do not understand is why English people want that particular union to stand - i would like to understand, can someone enlighten me ?

reply to post by grainofsand


What is the point? That the English are getting a raw deal? I concur. The Scots ain't having an easy ride either?

That the Barnett formula is unfair? I concur to a point - Scotland's geography means it needs that higher per capita spend (a lot more distance to cover with relatively few people living there).

The West Lothian Question - again I concur - it's not fair.

So, rather than ask the Scots to come down to Westminster and sort out your problems for you, the question now is, what are you going to do about it?

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by grainofsand

 

If i am honest I think England owes NI and Wales, so they should stay in the union if they want.

That's cool but not funded by English taxes. As I said earlier, my family enjoy preferential public services in Wales (which I don't) but are subsidised by my taxes paid in England. That cannot be acceptable can it? Please feel free to make the case justifying it in this thread if you feel different though.

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by grainofsand

 

If i am honest I think England owes NI and Wales, so they should stay in the union if they want.

That's cool but not funded by English taxes. As I said earlier, my family enjoy preferential public services in Wales (which I don't) but are subsidised by my taxes paid in England. That cannot be acceptable can it? Please feel free to make the case justifying it in this thread if you feel different though.

I think the West Country is particularly badly treated actually, but given the history of Ireland and northern Ireland - we owe them IMO, did we have to close the Welsh mines ? [ not we but you know the govt]

As for welsh subsidies - I dunno - they have better representation because they have a Welsh Govt - which brings us full circle back to the English parliament requirement,

Maybe the English parliament could be split into North and South interests but meets as one parliament ?

But it aint gonna happen unto the English insist it happens, or the Scottish leave the union.

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by grainofsand

 

If i am honest I think England owes NI and Wales, so they should stay in the union if they want.
That is not the case with Scotland who as I have said have destroyed England.
What I do not understand is why English people want that particular union to stand - i would like to understand, can someone enlighten me ?

Oh I think if you did a poll in England right now, there is now way we'd be saying we want to keep the England/Scotland union!

reply to post by HelenConway


Helen move to Edinburgh - you'll love it. 55% of the population wasn't even born there - the majority of that 55% come from England.

Or perhaps try out some of the more beautific areas of Scotland - the Western Isles or the highlands - you'll find many of English brethren there - while pricing the locals out of their own homes (but no matter). I mean they cleared the highlands for sheep a cpl of hundred years ago - now they've done it with 125% mortgages.

Please stop generalising about an entire nation (of 5.2 million people not 6 million).

And remember that even if we do vote for independence - we're not going anywhere - we'll still be here atop your northern border.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
Hate to point out the obvious here but England already has its own parliament, it just imposes it's will on the Scottish and Welsh. In fact with a devolved Scotland and Wales, there would be little left but an English parliament.

Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
They dont need their own, they already have their own, they just need to take it back Ya get meh?

Hate to point it out, but England does not! England gave up it's Parliament in 1707 when the then Parliament of England & Wales merged with the Scottish one. Upon devolution, those countries got back their own representation while England remained without it's own legislature.

-snip-

We don't really need a seperate Parliament, all we need is a simple rule in the Commons preventing MP's from voting on matters outside their own country.

So you say I'm wrong and then propose a solution that is exactly what I said was the solution. That they needed to TAKE BACK THEIR OWN PARLIAMENT. I know the English Comprehensive system ain't what it used to be but c'mon. Maybe the Scots and Welsh are doing you a favour running your country.

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by HelenConway

 

Helen move to Edinburgh - you'll love it. 55% of the population wasn't even born there - the majority of that 55% come from England.

Or perhaps try out some of the more beautific areas of Scotland - the Western Isles or the highlands - you'll find many of English brethren there - while pricing the locals out of their own homes (but no matter). I mean they cleared the highlands for sheep a cpl of hundred years ago - now they've done it with 125% mortgages.

Please stop generalising about an entire nation (of 5.2 million people not 6 million).

And remember that even if we do vote for independence - we're not going anywhere - we'll still be here atop your northern border.

edit on 27-1-2013 by christina-66 because: (no reason given)

Well I should clarify - when I say ' Scotland' I mean your leaders, however, Scottish people were responsible for voting them in. So I am not talking about individual people.

When I say ' scottish people' I mean the people who vote in scotland, irregardless of nationality or country of origin.

Anyway I thought the Western Isles wanted to join with Denmark ?

reply to post by HelenConway

That is not the case with Scotland who as I have said have destroyed England.

With all due respect I honestly fail to see how you come to believe this - could you please humour me and again explain exactly how you think this is so?

reply to post by HelenConway

Anyway I thought the Western Isles wanted to join with Denmark

Where did you get that notion from? The Outer Hebrides - off the West coast of Scotland - want to join with a country far off the east coast located just north of Germany? Strange

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by HelenConway

 

Anyway I thought the Western Isles wanted to join with Denmark

Where did you get that notion from? The Outer Hebrides - off the West coast of Scotland - want to join with a country far off the east coast located just north of Germany? Strange

yep or maybe it was norway - it is true .

Ah! Such side tracking!!
England subsidises Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland, simple as.
If you disagree with my assertion then provide links to support your argument.
England is in a situation where Scottish, Welsh, and N.Irish MP's can vote on solely English matters but English MP's cannot vote on the devolved administrations concerns. If you think that is justifiable then please do explain your case for the defence and I shall respond accordingly.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by HelenConway

 

That is not the case with Scotland who as I have said have destroyed England.

With all due respect I honestly fail to see how you come to believe this - could you please humour me and again explain exactly how you think this is so?

You don't have to agree with me - but this is what happened under New Labour's watch.
New Labour only got in because of Scotland's vote. No way would they have got in if it was just England voting.
The past two PMs were scottish as were most of the govt.

sold our gold
bankrupted us
signed up to all the EU treaties without the mandate of the people.
bailed out the banks with tax payers money.
Allowed UK PLC to be sold .. across the world, with the inherent loss of revenue that entailed.
Lost control of our borders.
Deliberately did not police our borders.
Changed the demographic of the country.
Sent us to war on a lie.
Caused pain and untold misery.

Addit: I nearly forgot they covered up their incompetence with welfare payments on borrowed money, knowing that they would not have to deal with the consequences of the repayment mess.

They devalued the pound - so it is now arguably fiat money.

They encouraged cheap spending and presided over the biggest unsustainable property value increase in history

PS I am think our present govt stinks too... but the spin was all new labour - they have just copied.

reply to post by grainofsand


No - not such side tracking. What you have is consensus - and you don't know how to handle it

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by grainofsand

 

No - not such side tracking. What you have is consensus - and you don't know how to handle it

You chose to ignore it so I'll ask again, please justify the situation where English taxes pay a disproportional amount to fund Wales, Scotland and NI while they retain the right to vote on solely English issues in parliament...you can't can you?

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by grainofsand

 

No - not such side tracking. What you have is consensus - and you don't know how to handle it

Even if you are a minority of one - the truth is the truth [ Ghandi ].
Consenus counts for little [ me]

reply to post by grainofsand


I've written again and again on that subject. The Barnett Formula is on its way out (no matter what).

Wiki - Barnett Formual

That Barnett himself has said (as recently as 2004) it wasn't meant for long term use....basically it was put in place in the 1970's to quell anti-unionist sentiment at a time when a rigged ballot on a Scottish assembly was due to take place. (It was a bribe).

I've also agreed with you that Scottish mp's having a vote on English only affairs is entirely unfair.

I'm not trying to defend it - I agree with you. Why can't you get that? Why adopt such an antagonistic attitude when you don't have to?

reply to post by HelenConway


Helen and Grain - you guys need to hone your debating skills. Helen my reference to consensus was in relation to the points raised in this thread about the unfairness of the Scots mp's having a say on English only matters and that the Barnett formula gives the English a rough deal.....I AGREE

What the hey does Ghandi have to do with that?

England already has local councils who decide issues of a local nature.

If I were a British taxpayer, I'd hate to be paying for another level of dysfunctional English Government.

Originally posted by christina-66my reference to consensus was in relation to the points raised in this thread about the unfairness of the Scots mp's having a say on English only matters and that the Barnett formula gives the English a rough deal.....I AGREE

Cool, we have no argument then