Should England have it's own Parliament?

Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by grainofsand
reply to post by HelenConway

 

Totally agree, it's a scandal that the other nations MP's get a vote on our taxes paid in England...actually started this topic after seeing your comments in the Scottish thread

reply to post by Maxatoria

 

Or South Devon, where I'm at

I don't think this subject will get much interest though .. to be honest, The English have become very downtrodden over the past 10 years or so.

They have allowed themselves to be treated like complete dirt by their leaders and have done nothing about it.

The English have been under the thumb since 1066, nearly one thousand years, so yes, they are downtrodden, see what some of the laws passed by William the Bastard did to the English, such as, 'cough and disturb a Dear eating, you will be killed' fancy living under a law like that?

reply to post by HelenConway


The transfer of sovereignty to the EU has indeed been treasonous.

But it did start with Heath and has been continued by ALL of his successors, both English and Scottish - all of which had to be approved by both Parliament, the majority of whom are English MP's, and most treasonously of all The Monarch!

This thread is becoming slightly petty - with all due respect I fail to see what on earth The French Vichy has to do with an English Parliament - start a thread about that and France's role in WWII and I'll gladly contribute.

The 'Scottish' thread referenced to earlier is a great example of how different opinions can be discussed and debated in a respectful manner here on ATS - this thread is becoming to resemble a schoolyard tiff.

Originally posted by Freeborn
this thread is becoming to resemble a schoolyard tiff.

I don't know, it seems pretty restrained so far compared with some of the gun threads or the one about us Brits needing to wake up due to possible tyranny from the crown

reply to post by HelenConway

We will agree to disagree then - I do not want England chopped into regions, that is the EU agenda.

And I don't want the North East dictated to by a region that will increasingly marginalise it.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by HelenConway

 

We will agree to disagree then - I do not want England chopped into regions, that is the EU agenda.

And I don't want the North East dictated to by a region that will increasingly marginalise it.

Same for me in the South West, but I'd prefer political decisions to be made by solely English voters, MP's and taxpayers than Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish who we have absolutely no say in the running of their nations. The situation is clearly unjustifiable.

I believe that the answer to the whole problem, is to take the majority of the powers and budget off of centeral government and re-distribute it to local government. That way, each local area will have decisions made that are in the best interest of the local people. It is far easier to vote out your local representative than it is a national representative. Local Government, should be able to set taxation rates in its region, decide public service budgets in its region and look after its local infrastructure.

Centeral Government should be used for nothing more than foreign affairs, defence and law making.

reply to post by michael1983l
A truly federal system? Yep, I could run with that, as long as my taxes in England do not subsidise improved services elsewhere. Remember the figures in the OP, I cannot see how even the Scottish could defend such disparity at present.

reply to post by Freeborn


I take Helen's Vichy reference to mean that she thinks English politicians are behaving towards the EU as French ones did to the Nazi occupiers of France in WW2 i.e. some committed treason.

I'm sure that's what she means *COUGH* haha.

Well, if that's the case the English politicians commit treason with the consistent backing of the people who voted them in. And the last person who accused his people of acting treacherously, of abandoning the country etc, well that was mad old Hitler in his mad old bunker.

Hi Helen !

reply to post by LeBombDiggity


Every politician elected since the first constitutional power was handed over to Brussels has committed treason. No Government has ever had the mandate off its people to hand those kinds of powers over and every one that has not opposed this, is in my eyes trecherous. The Soverign powers of our nation cannot be handed over to anybody other than our Elected Government, without the final say of its people. Our participation in this EU is not legally binding in my eyes.

reply to post by grainofsand

Same for me in the South West, but I'd prefer political decisions to be made by solely English voters, MP's and taxpayers than Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish who we have absolutely no say in the running of their nations. The situation is clearly unjustifiable.

As things stand under the current electoral and parliamentary system I fully understand the arguement for an English Parliament - and I actually agree with it - I just don't like the practical implications that it will have for the region where I live, and for many other parts of England too.

Which is one of the reasons I support devolved power to the regions as well as the nations within the UK - this will preserve the The Union whilst recognising regional differences and requirements.

reply to post by michael1983l


Yeah but like I say. Sovereignty devolved to someone else is sovereignty you can take back whenever you choose. That's the safety mechanism. You give powers to the councils, you take them back. Same with Scotland, the EU, whoever/whatever. In the English system, Westminster holds all the cards.

Tbh I can't remember the English rioting about the consequences of the Single European Act. Or Maastricht, Schengen, Lisbon etc. I think, for most EU citizens, those issues just passed them by. I suspect you are overegging Helen's pudding ! And you really don't want to do that.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by HelenConway

 

Just to make something perfectly clear, England isn't in the ashes to rise up from. We are just as strong and powerful a country as we have always been. We are still the banking capital of the world (unfortunately), BAE is still the biggest defence contractor in the world outside of lockheed martin and we have the best science sector in the world at the minute. We have a lot to be proud about, and Union or no Union, England will go on to prosper because of its infrastructure, people and geography.

Stop selling yourself short.

Well said, but we wouldn't be British if we didn't self depreciate all the time! Bigging yourself and lauding yourself about is what Americans do....

reply to post by michael1983l

I believe that the answer to the whole problem, is to take the majority of the powers and budget off of centeral government and re-distribute it to local government. That way, each local area will have decisions made that are in the best interest of the local people. It is far easier to vote out your local representative than it is a national representative. Local Government, should be able to set taxation rates in its region, decide public service budgets in its region and look after its local infrastructure.

Centeral Government should be used for nothing more than foreign affairs, defence and law making.

Some common ground methinks.
Throw in the power of recall, aboliton of the party political system, rolling parliaments and the increased use of referendum utilising new technology and we're nearly in complete agreement.

reply to post by grainofsand

A truly federal system?

I refer The Honourable Gentleman to the answer I gave earlier;

I understand the arguements for an English Parliament and essentially I'd support it - but I'd rather see radical reform of both the electoral and parliamnetary processes and procedures handing devolved power not just to the constituent nations but also the regions.
This would include using a form of Direct Democracy on all local and national issues and all within a Federal framework.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Freeborn
That we are - but as has been mentioned, culturally we seem to have more in common with Scots than we do Southerners.

Oh, Freeborn...Really?

Originally posted by Freeborn
I understand the arguements for an English Parliament and essentially I'd support it - but I'd rather see radical reform of both the electoral and parliamnetary processes and procedures handing devolved power not just to the constituent nations but also the regions.
This would include using a form of Direct Democracy on all local and national issues and all within a Federal framework.

I also fear the practical implications of an English Parliament - it would permanently be Conservative dominated and we in the outer hinterlands would be even further marginalised.

How would you feel, and I often say this when people ask about such a Parliament, having it somewhere other than London?

After all, the first Parliaments were held all over and the historic English capital is Winchester, not London. I would have no issues placing Parliament in somewhere like Birmingham, Manchester or Newcastle... If anything, that would at least go some way to getting rid of the London centric thinking that dominates us now.

Originally posted by HelenConway
We will agree to disagree then - I do not want England chopped into regions, that is the EU agenda.

Indeed, which is why I will argue till I am blue in the face against regionalisation. It is effectively divide and rule, it has worked already with the Scots and English at each others throats more so now than they were 20 years ago.

reply to post by LeBombDiggity


We don't actually need to riot to get our wishes. The government can only ignore public opinion for so long before they have to address it. The fact that a mainstream party has now attepted to address this issue means that we will eventually get our wish. I think we are much more likely to stay in Europe with certain powers repatriated back to the UK.

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
It's arguably the same with the Scottish Parliament. Westminster can simply abolish the Scottish Parliament in an afternoon's sitting.

Doesn't even need Parliament to do that.

A simple wave of a special order by the PM can abolish Holyrood

reply to post by Freeborn


I'd agree to most of that Freeborn, however I think only the very most important issues should have a referendum held on them. If we are having more than 1 referendum a year then something is afoot.

reply to post by stumason

Oh, Freeborn...Really?

Literary effect my friend.

No matter where Parliament was held, under the current aystem it wouldn't alter a thing - the make up of Parliament would still be the same and the North East would still be a marginalised region.

And it would be worse if we had an English Parliament which would be Tory dominated.

As you yourself once said, what we need is a full system reboot.

reply to post by Freeborn


What we need is the end of career politicians, I'm sick of hearing about Eaton Schoolboys who study politics solely and end up working in the government, without having had any exposure to any real kind of hardship EVER.

What we need is a form of public representation in parliment, much like we have public representation for dury service. The common man needs to start having his or her voice heard again, there is no party that speaks for the common man, there never has been. Labour have always spoken for the Unions but masqueraded that as being the people's party and the suckers fell for it. Unions are full of priviledged bullies just like Eaton if full of over privilidged career politicians, neither are looking after the interests of anything but their own pockets.