Should England have it's own Parliament?

Either England should have its own parliament or Scotland/Wales/Nr Ireland should lose theirs. I don't mind which.

Originally posted by dmsuse
Either England should have its own parliament or Scotland/Wales/Nr Ireland should lose theirs. I don't mind which.

I'm happy for them to have their own administrations, just not more money per capita spent on their citizens or their MP's having any vote in solely English matters at Westminster.

reply to post by grainofsand


What the Scots/Welsh and Northern Irish fail to understand is that the English cities minus M25, East Anglia and South Coast/ Cornwall get just as bum a deal as the rest of them. Take Rochdale for example, it looks like Beiroot with grey skies.

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by stumason
Whether you like it or not, every discussion about England, Scotland and the UK will always boil down, in some fashion, to the age old grievances - whether real or perceived.

Curious how all the passionate and vocal non-UK posters in the Scottish independence thread seem uninterested in supporting fairness for England though

Well here is something I believe passionately that the Scots will deny vehemently ..

Scotland destroyed England, deliberately and systematically over the past 15 years.

Their politicians are directly responsible for the deliberate demographic disorder in our country, for making us bust and for signing our powers away to the EU - they are responsible for awarding ship building contracts to Scotland over England etc etc etc.

They voted on tuition fees when they had no mandate in English politics.

Labour would not have had any power in England if it was not for the Scottish - and their overly present fingers in our English pies.

I do support old Labour but not new Labour .. the Scottish have destroyed England. Which is why some other posters who are French revel in the fact.

We will rise again from the ashes though ... make no mistake .

I hope and pray that Scotland becomes independent,

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by dmsuse
Either England should have its own parliament or Scotland/Wales/Nr Ireland should lose theirs. I don't mind which.

I'm happy for them to have their own administrations, just not more money per capita spent on their citizens or their MP's having any vote in solely English matters at Westminster.

Scotland has to have money spent on it, because it only has 5.5 million people and vast areas of land to upkeep the infrastructure on. This is what the Scots are not being told by salmond, is that their Taxes will have to skyrocket, if they want to upkeep their infrastructure at the same level.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by grainofsand

 

What the Scots/Welsh and Northern Irish fail to understand is that the English cities minus M25, East Anglia and South Coast/ Cornwall get just as bum a deal as the rest of them.

We're just as skint here on the South Devon coast, but being by the sea and with cheap farm scrumpy to drink it ain't so bad

reply to post by HelenConway


Just to make something perfectly clear, England isn't in the ashes to rise up from. We are just as strong and powerful a country as we have always been. We are still the banking capital of the world (unfortunately), BAE is still the biggest defence contractor in the world outside of lockheed martin and we have the best science sector in the world at the minute. We have a lot to be proud about, and Union or no Union, England will go on to prosper because of its infrastructure, people and geography.

Stop selling yourself short.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by HelenConway

 

Just to make something perfectly clear, England isn't in the ashes to rise up from. We are just as strong and powerful a country as we have always been. We are still the banking capital of the world (unfortunately), BAE is still the biggest defence contractor in the world outside of lockheed martin and we have the best science sector in the world at the minute. We have a lot to be proud about, and Union or no Union, England will go on to prosper because of its infrastructure, people and geography.

Stop selling yourself short.

come on don't kid yourself we are much diminished - compared to where we were.
Scotland and their MPs and PMs are largely responsible for that...

I mean the Scottish people walk around with t shirts saying ' anyone but England'
It is time to dissolve this union once and for all,

reply to post by HelenConway


The Scots Prime Ministers didn't "sign all the powers" over to the EU. What nonsense.

Edward Heath started that with his bizarre fiaxation to join the EEC, swiftly followed by Margaret Thatcher (Single European Act) and John Major (Maastricht). None of those three are/were Scottish. In fact with Thatcher & Major, it's their very Englishness which defines them !

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
reply to post by HelenConway

 

The Scots Prime Ministers didn't "sign all the powers" over to the EU. What nonsense.

Edward Heath started that with his bizarre fiaxation to join the EEC, swiftly followed by Margaret Thatcher (Single European Act) and John Major (Maastricht). None of those three are/were Scottish. In fact with Thatcher & Major, it's their very Englishness which defines them !

Yes true but the Scottish PMs signed the most destructive of all treaties - apart from the Maastricht treaty and they destroyed our country with policies that have seen more change then the Roman and Norman Invasion combined,

Originally posted by HelenConwaycome on don't kid yourself we are much diminished - compared to where we were.
Scotland and their MPs and PMs are largely responsible for that...

We'd certainly all be a lot better off in England if we were not subsidising the services of Scotland, Wales & NI.
It would be interesting to hear the opinions of people from those parts of the UK in this thread but I guess while it is not possible to justify the financial & political disparity it would appear more sensible for them to stay out of the debate perhaps?

Originally posted by HelenConway

come on don't kid yourself we are much diminished - compared to where we were.
Scotland and their MPs and PMs are largely responsible for that...

We may be much deminished compared to where we were, but so is every other nation in the world, no in fact, most other nations have diminished far further than we have in the UK, because they all had their head in the sand and kept on spending money they didn't have, whereas the UK took measures to stabilise the economy early on. The UK is the most investable country outside of Germany in the EU, and the UK Economy and jobs market is proving to be recovering at a far greater rate than that of the USA.

Our GDP figures might well be stagnating, but that is a false indication if you compare it to our peers because we have taken a route of Austerity whereas most of the rest continue to borrow their way out. Those Countries that are continuing to borrow their way out, are just delaying the inevitable GDP crash. We have controlled ours, I dont think they will have control when real Austerity kicks in by a forced hand. Just look at Greece and Spain to an extent.

reply to post by HelenConway


Just started reading this thread and got this far before I had to say something.

the scottish despise the English

Only speaking from personal experience, but they don't - sure some do, but most don't.
They do tend to dislike the stereotypical southerner with his inherent arrogance and supercillious attitude - but then again so do I!

and the Northern English are proud English.

That we are - but as has been mentioned, culturally we seem to have more in common with Scots than we do Southerners.

I understand the arguements for an English Parliament and essentially I'd support it - but I'd rather see radical reform of both the electoral and parliamnetary processes and procedures handing devolved power not just to the constituent nations but also the regions.
This would include using a form of Direct Democracy on all local and national issues and all within a Federal framework.

I also fear the practical implications of an English Parliament - it would permanently be Conservative dominated and we in the outer hinterlands would be even further marginalised.

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by HelenConwaycome on don't kid yourself we are much diminished - compared to where we were.
Scotland and their MPs and PMs are largely responsible for that...

We'd certainly all be a lot better off in England if we were not subsidising the services of Scotland, Wales & NI.
It would be interesting to hear the opinions of people from those parts of the UK in this thread but I guess while it is not possible to justify the financial & political disparity it would appear more sensible for them to stay out of the debate perhaps?

I do not think Wales and NI are the problem at all.

If anything they need money spent on them to reinvest in their industries.

Belfast was one of the richest cities in the world before money was haemorrhaged away - Wales should start mining again .. and have money invested in industry and rural farming / fishing.

reply to post by HelenConway


But every nation signed those treaties, I assume you mean the constitution, Lisbon treaty etc ?

Every EU member (eventually) signed up.

Can you explain how those documents, signed by 26 or 27 countries, w/e, how they were peculiarly anti-English ?

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
reply to post by HelenConway

 

But every nation signed those treaties, I assume you mean the constitution, Lisbon treaty etc ?

Every EU member (eventually) signed up.

Can you explain how those documents, signed by 26 or 27 countries, w/e, how they were peculiarly anti-English ?

they signed our sovereignty away - the French wanted that, the English did not.
The Scottish MPs signed these documents.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by HelenConway

 

I'd rather see radical reform of both the electoral and parliamnetary processes and procedures handing devolved power not just to the constituent nations but also the regions.
This would include using a form of Direct Democracy on all local and national issues and all within a Federal framework.

I also fear the practical implications of an English Parliament - it would permanently be Conservative dominated and we in the outer hinterlands would be even further marginalised.

We will agree to disagree then - I do not want England chopped into regions, that is the EU agenda.

reply to post by HelenConway


You can get your sovereignty back in one afternoon in Parliament by voting to leave the EU.

Sovereignty devolved is sovereignty retained. It isn't lost forever.

It's arguably the same with the Scottish Parliament. Westminster can simply abolish the Scottish Parliament in an afternoon's sitting.

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
reply to post by HelenConway

 

You can get your sovereignty back in one afternoon in Parliament by voting to leave the EU.

Sovereignty devolved is sovereignty retained. It isn't lost forever.

It's arguably the same with the Scottish Parliament. Westminster can simply abolish the Scottish Parliament in an afternoon's sitting.

absolutely - but then we are back again to our Vichy problem, but the 'vichy' English this time ... the ones that call themselves MPs !

Originally posted by HelenConway
I do not think Wales and NI are the problem at all.

I object to the free prescriptions and reduced university fees etc my family enjoy in Wales when it is subsidised by taxes we pay in England. Don't even get me started on the social housing issue and the stupidly high private rents here in South Devon due to the lack of local authority housing stock.
My sister even laughs at me and says 'more fool the English not doing something about it' - her opinion is not unique in Wales.