Should England have it's own Parliament?

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
reply to post by HelenConway

 

I doubt yours is a workable suggestion.

Honestly. I've been to those northern English cities. Apart from the accents you'd think you were in Scotland, the people are just so alike in attitude towards their "masters down south". They despise London politicians as much as the Scots !

At least give the northern english a choice.

How is your solution workable - the scottish despise the English and the Northern English are proud English.

I think my idea is more workable actually especially because there are about a million english people living ther anyway and it works for the Channel Islands,

Plus the Northern French are more like the English then they are like the Southern French, even Churchill bombed the Southern French because they supported Hitler. Unlike the Northerners.

Addit : we all hate the leaders in Westminster - that is pan UK.

reply to post by LeBombDiggity
If English workers taxes were spent solely in England and distributed by an English parliament I would suggest there would be much greater assistance for Northern England.
At the very least the votes by Northern English MP's could not be affected by the MP's from Welsh, Scottish and NI - why the apparent resistance to creating a more equitable union?

reply to post by grainofsand


I don't want a more equitable union. I want the United Kingdom to cease to exist.

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
reply to post by grainofsand

 

I don't want a more equitable union. I want the United Kingdom to cease to exist.

I want France to cease to exist - I really do !! Thank you for showing your true colours though

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
reply to post by grainofsand

 

I don't want a more equitable union. I want the United Kingdom to cease to exist.

By default that shows your support for an English parliament, I agree if only for financial reasons, and look forward to the day my taxes no longer subsidise Scotland, Wales and NI

Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
Hate to point out the obvious here but England already has its own parliament, it just imposes it's will on the Scottish and Welsh. In fact with a devolved Scotland and Wales, there would be little left but an English parliament.

Hate to point it out, but England does not! England gave up it's Parliament in 1707 when the then Parliament of England & Wales merged with the Scottish one. Upon devolution, those countries got back their own representation while England remained without it's own legislature.

Instead, we have Welsh, Scots and NI MP's voting on matters that ONLY AFFECT ENGLAND, such as Tuition fees which only got in by the slimmest majority due to Scottish Labour MP's voting for it, despite it being a Labour manifesto pledge not to introduce them in the proceeding election....

We don't really need a seperate Parliament, all we need is a simple rule in the Commons preventing MP's from voting on matters outside their own country.

Originally posted by stumason
We don't really need a seperate Parliament, all we need is a simple rule in the Commons preventing MP's from voting on matters outside their own country.

I'd be happy with that, along with an arrangement where my taxes in England do not subsidise improved services in Wales, Scotland & NI.

Originally posted by grainofsand
reply to post by justwokeup

 

I totally understand the Barnet formula and how unfair it is for English taxpayers. The block budget for Scotland, Wales & NI is clearly not equitable, hence the extra spending (per capita) for everyone who doesn't live in England.

The removal of voting rights for non-English MP's in English matters could work of course, but why shy away from an English parliament? If wasting money on devolved political administrations is good for the rest then it's good for the English workers as well.

Again, it would be interesting to see how long Scotland, Wales and NI could continue to offer their improved services if they relied solely on their own taxes.

If you have a single nation then the taxation raised in that nation should be spent based on where its most needed. The 'how much' should be decided at national level based on who needs help.

Once the allocation has been made it should be up to the local population to decide how best to utilise it.

If you go the other way and say only tax raised in a place should be spent in the place then how far do you take it? City states? I imagine Londoners would be quite happy if all the economic activity in London could be kept and spent only on London. The rest of England might not like it so much.

The idea behind what we have now is fine. Its just that the formula used is stuck in time and needs to be flexible.

Yes, if the scottish allocation reduced due to a change in the Barnett formula it obviously would mean cuts would have to happen somewhere. Where they fell would be a decision to be made in scotland and it might be a different apportionment than in England. You might still have the free tuition but take deeper cuts elsewhere. Thats a matter of local priorities and culture.

No objection to an english parliament, I was just pointing out you could accomplish the same without spawning more politicians and introducing another separate building.

Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
So if a bunch of white people are sitting in a chinese restaurant its not a chinese restaurant?

A foolish argument. Your assuming they are sat in a Chinese restaurant to begin with.. They are not.

Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
Its the English parliament, whether its the Scots and the Welsh running the show or not.

No, it isn't. It hasn't been for 305 years.

Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
It's not like the Scots and the Welsh haven't had to put up with the rule of the English aristocracy for hundreds of years.

Er, the Scots haven't had to do that at all. They joined willingly and have their own aristocrats! You seem to a little misinformed about the constitutional arrangement of the UK as well as it's history. Do some reading.

Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
Funny how when the shoe's on the other foot the English whine. They dont need their own, they already have their own, they just need to take it back Ya get meh?

One of the quintessential things about being English is believing in fair play. This is not a fair arrangement.

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
I think the Scottish Parliament should be allowed to extend it's territorial limit to include Newcastle, Carlisle, Lancaster, Preston etc. The inhabitants of those predominately working class cities have more in common with their Scottish brethren than with the Lucindas and Nigels of Hampstead.

Whoa.....

I think you'll find the locals would vehemently disagree with that!

But, if we're going to argue for land, England should get Edinburgh back. It was, after all, an Anglo-Saxon city and part of the Kingdom of Northumbria till the Scots took it. Most lowland Scots are, no matter how much they protests, of English stock.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
I think the Scottish Parliament should be allowed to extend it's territorial limit to include Newcastle, Carlisle, Lancaster, Preston etc. The inhabitants of those predominately working class cities have more in common with their Scottish brethren than with the Lucindas and Nigels of Hampstead.

Whoa.....

I think you'll find the locals would vehemently disagree with that!

But, if we're going to argue for land, England should get Edinburgh back. It was, after all, an Anglo-Saxon city and part of the Kingdom of Northumbria till the Scots took it. Most lowland Scots are, no matter how much they protests, of English stock.

and Irish stock

reply to post by LeBombDiggity


I think you'll find the same with any region outside the M25 matey. I really grinds my gears when Northerners complain about us "southerners" doing them in, but in reality it's the London lot doing us all in! I work with a few from inside the M25 and honestly you'd think they were from another country - absolutely no concept of life outside the capital.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by LeBombDiggity

 

I think you'll find the same with any region outside the M25 matey. I really grinds my gears when Northerners complain about us "southerners" doing them in, but in reality it's the London lot doing us all in! I work with a few from inside the M25 and honestly you'd think they were from another country - absolutely no concept of life outside the capital.

Stu le bomb diggoty has already claimed he is part of the fifth column - he has stated openly that he wants the UK to cease to exist.

That is why i want to discuss vichy France with him - I am guessing they still have activists and were not dissolved after WW2.[ or ran away like headless chickens]

I am guessing he is here in the UK to spread dissent,

Originally posted by justwokeupIf you go the other way and say only tax raised in a place should be spent in the place then how far do you take it? City states?

We have local councils to decide such things, they would of course remain.

Yes, if the scottish allocation reduced due to a change in the Barnett formula it obviously would mean cuts would have to happen somewhere.

As they rightly should. The current extra spending on non-English citizens is clearly unjustifiable.

No objection to an english parliament, I was just pointing out you could accomplish the same without spawning more politicians and introducing another separate building.

I totally understand your reasoning there, and yes, the increased costs of a new parliament could be better spent elsewhere...in England.

When a thread on economic policy devolves into who invaded who and centuries old population migrations (which is whats happening here) them its probably time to go and do my laundry.

We're approaching the thread racial nonsense horizon and theres no escape from there.

I think that fair representation and fair distribution of tax payers money is required here and not an English only Parliment.

This thread has just highlighted something for me and that it is pants being an Englishman. If you look at the Union level, Englishmen have their taxes re-distributed to other areas of the Union, so we lose out here. Then look at the UK on an EU level, again we have our tax revenues re-distributed accross to poorer areas of the EU. The Englishman is basically being screwed, yet everybody hates us. I say pull the funds and give them something to actually hate us for.

Originally posted by justwokeup
When a thread on economic policy devolves into who invaded who and centuries old population migrations (which is whats happening here) them its probably time to go and do my laundry.

We're approaching the thread racial nonsense horizon and theres no escape from there.

An English parliament is not just about economics, it is about much more then just money and the VIchy French were not centuries away - they wanted Britain destroyed in WW2 and my grandfathers and your grandfathers dead.

Originally posted by michael1983l
I think that fair representation and fair distribution of tax payers money is required here and not an English only Parliment.

I'd agree with that, it is the unfair situation of English taxes subsidising Scotland, Wales and NI that winds me up. If we can stop the non-English MP's voting on English matters as well then we wouldn't need the new parliament.

This thread has just highlighted something for me and that it is pants being an Englishman.

Same being a Welshman knowing that my taxes in England fund improved services for my family in Wales.

reply to post by justwokeup


Whether you like it or not, every discussion about England, Scotland and the UK will always boil down, in some fashion, to the age old grievances - whether real or perceived. For my part, I try to lay facts out as they are without any spin as, unfortunately, there is a lot of bollocks being pushed around on this subject.

Originally posted by stumason
Whether you like it or not, every discussion about England, Scotland and the UK will always boil down, in some fashion, to the age old grievances - whether real or perceived.

Curious how all the passionate and vocal non-UK posters in the Scottish independence thread seem uninterested in supporting fairness for England though