Should England have it's own Parliament?

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posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:16 AM
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Wales, Scotland & Northern Ireland have their own devolved administrations deciding all manner of things for their populations, from free medical prescriptions to reduced university tuition fees etc, all subsidied by English taxpayers.
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Total public spending per head in Scotland last year was £10,212, compared to £8,588 in England, figures in the Treasury's annual Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses show. The gap widened by 15.2 per cent in a year - from £1,409 to £1,624. In the South East of England, which is responsible for a large share of tax revenues, public spending was just £7,533 per head. Although poorer than Scotland, Wales received £9,829 per person.

As the current situation stands, Wales, Scotland & NI enjoy these subsidised services plus an ability to alter their own domestic policies without any interference by English Members of Parliament.
Welsh, Scottish & Northern Irish MP's in Westminster however retain the ability to vote on issues that solely affect England. This arrangement appears to be a stain on the democratic running of the UK, specifically for citizens of England.
That said, should England now have it's own administration which is governed by the voters and MP's of England alone? I believe so.

For the record, I was born and raised in Wales, but I have lived longer in England, paying tens of thousands of pounds in taxes over the years which have not been exclusively funding services in England.
If there is a vote in Parliament regarding funding of English services then I do not see how it can be equitable for Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish MP's to have any vote in such decisions. An English Parliament would seem to address this apparent disparity.




posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by grainofsand
 


She certainly should.

With ONLY English MPs - ie MPs that represent English constituencies.

The Scottish MPs should NOT be allowed to vote on English matters, unless English MPs can vote on Scotish matters.

We need our own parliament. Just like the other UK countries.
edit on 27-1-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:22 AM
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could be a good idea that theres a national parliament for those things that affect everyone but why should the scots be able to tell us what we can't do in Wiltshire when we can't tell them off for the same thing in Edinburgh



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 
Totally agree, it's a scandal that the other nations MP's get a vote on our taxes paid in England...actually started this topic after seeing your comments in the Scottish thread


reply to post by Maxatoria
 
Or South Devon, where I'm at


*Edit*
A truly federal system would be the answer in my opinion. Defence etc decided by federal government then the individual nations having their own shout regarding individual matters.
I would also want the funding allocation redesigned as well, it would be interesting to see how Wales, Scotland and NI would afford their 'extra' services without the English taxpayers subsidy?

edit on 27-1-2013 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by grainofsand
reply to post by HelenConway
 
Totally agree, it's a scandal that the other nations MP's get a vote on our taxes paid in England...actually started this topic after seeing your comments in the Scottish thread


reply to post by Maxatoria
 
Or South Devon, where I'm at




I don't think this subject will get much interest though .. to be honest, The English have become very downtrodden over the past 10 years or so.

They have allowed themselves to be treated like complete dirt by their leaders and have done nothing about it.

At least the Scottish have shown a bit more gumption in this respect, as have the Welsh and the Northern Irish.
edit on 27-1-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by HelenConway
At least the Scottish have shown a bit more gumption in this respect, as have the Welsh.

Well, I'm a passionate Welshman arguing the case for England - it winds me up that my family in Wales get services which I don't, and on the back of our taxes paid in England.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:38 AM
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Hate to point out the obvious here but England already has its own parliament, it just imposes it's will on the Scottish and Welsh. In fact with a devolved Scotland and Wales, there would be little left but an English parliament.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
Hate to point out the obvious here but England already has its own parliament, it just imposes it's will on the Scottish and Welsh. In fact with a devolved Scotland and Wales, there would be little left but an English parliament.
Urm, did you miss the bit that in Westminster the Welsh, Sctottish and Northern Irish MP's get to vote on issues which solely affect England...that is not an 'English' Parliament at all.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:44 AM
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There are 3 separate issues involved in this:

1) How the money from the UK treasury for services is allocated among the home nations (see the Barnet Formulaen.wikipedia.org...).

2) What the devolved Scottish assembly decides to spend its allocation on.

3) The 'West Lothian Question'. The issue about scottish MPs participating in votes in the UK parliament on issues affecting England only.


Mixing them up isn't helpful. My response to each is below:

1) Its time it was reformed. The funds ratio should be modified to account for poverty in the regions looked at objectively. It should not be a fixed ratio but rather altered at set intervals based on new studies of who is worst off. Say, every 10 years. Whoever suffers most gets a hand out, might be Wales for a few years, then NE England depending on the stats.

2) Nothing to do with anybody else how the Scottish assembly apportions its allotted funds. If free tuition is deemed appropriate then something else will lose out to pay for it. It cant vote to take more english money than it gets allotted in the first place. This issue gets confused with the first one and misinterpreted than the scottish are voting themselves more english money. Not so.

3) This should have been settled when devolution occurred. Its not right. A new parliament isn't needed you simply need a mechanism to determine which votes are UK and which are English only. For English issues you make Scottish/Welsh/NI MPs mandatorily abstain.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
Hate to point out the obvious here but England already has its own parliament, it just imposes it's will on the Scottish and Welsh. In fact with a devolved Scotland and Wales, there would be little left but an English parliament.

That is disinformation !!!!!!!!!!!!!


England does NOT have its own parliament - Scottish MPs can vote on English matters.

If it is an English parliament why are MPs from constituencies not in England voting on matters that are of no conern or business of theirs.

The labour govt used Scottish MPs to vote on english matters - all the time.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by grainofsand
 


So if a bunch of white people are sitting in a chinese restaurant its not a chinese restaurant? Its the English parliament, whether its the Scots and the Welsh running the show or not. It's not like the Scots and the Welsh haven't had to put up with the rule of the English aristocracy for hundreds of years. Funny how when the shoe's on the other foot the English whine. They dont need their own, they already have their own, they just need to take it back Ya get meh?



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by justwokeup
 


The Barnett formula is not fair and it means English taxpayers are paying for services in Scotland.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by justwokeup
 
I totally understand the Barnet formula and how unfair it is for English taxpayers. The block budget for Scotland, Wales & NI is clearly not equitable, hence the extra spending (per capita) for everyone who doesn't live in England.

The removal of voting rights for non-English MP's in English matters could work of course, but why shy away from an English parliament? If wasting money on devolved political administrations is good for the rest then it's good for the English workers as well.

Again, it would be interesting to see how long Scotland, Wales and NI could continue to offer their improved services if they relied solely on their own taxes.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
reply to post by grainofsand
 


So if a bunch of white people are sitting in a chinese restaurant its not a chinese restaurant? Its the English parliament, whether its the Scots and the Welsh running the show or not. It's not like the Scots and the Welsh haven't had to put up with the rule of the English aristocracy for hundreds of years. Funny how when the shoe's on the other foot the English whine. They dont need their own, they already have their own, they just need to take it back Ya get meh?



I get that you are spreading disinformation - I am not sure if this is deliberate or not.
The parliament in Westminster is a UK parliament - hence MPs from the UK are represented there.
England does NOT have a parliament and it should - this means a parliament where only English MPs get to sit, not Scottish or Welsh etc. They discuss and vote on English matters.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:51 AM
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I think the Scottish Parliament should be allowed to extend it's territorial limit to include Newcastle, Carlisle, Lancaster, Preston etc. The inhabitants of those predominately working class cities have more in common with their Scottish brethren than with the Lucindas and Nigels of Hampstead.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
Funny how when the shoe's on the other foot the English whine.
I'm Welsh remember, but living in England I totally understand the disparity of 'the union'



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
I think the Scottish Parliament should be allowed to extend it's territorial limit to include Newcastle, Carlisle, Lancaster, Preston etc. The inhabitants of those predominately working class cities have more in common with their Scottish brethren than with the Lucindas and Nigels of Hampstead.


You are having a laugh mate !!
I think England should extend her territories to include Normandy and Brittany for the same reasons .. plus they used to be English [well defo Normandy].



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by justwokeup
 


The Barnett formula is not fair and it means English taxpayers are paying for services in Scotland.


I dont think you'll find many honest people disagreeing with you. Even the man that came up with it in the first place agrees. It was never intended as a permanent settlement.

There should be flexibility to move that ratio of expenditure around the UK as necessary, looking at the big picture.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by justwokeup
There should be flexibility to move that ratio of expenditure around the UK as necessary, looking at the big picture.
Well the English taxpayer is owed quite a lot back now since the introduction of the Barnet formula.
As I indicated earlier, my own family in Wales celebrate the wonderful services they have which English taxpayers do not and I remind them that the extra (per capita) spending they enjoy is funded by the taxes of workers in England, such as myself. It cannot be defended as an acceptable situation in any way.



posted on Jan, 27 2013 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 


I doubt yours is a workable suggestion.

Honestly. I've been to those northern English cities. Apart from the accents you'd think you were in Scotland, the people are just so alike in attitude towards their "masters down south". They despise London politicians as much as the Scots !

At least give the northern english a choice.



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