2nd Civil War?

With the increasing thunder and beating of war drums, and speculation on what would be the spark, I wonder, who would actually follow POTUS' orders to turn on American citizens. I mean... Surely their are many loyal soldiers on ATS. But who would actually turn their guns on family? How would they justify it? I just can't imagine where a US serviceman would shoot me for standing up for the very same Constitution That he/she has sworn to defend and uphold?

I don't doubt that this administration is going to attempt it, I just don't know how.

I'm curious on opinions about how this would happen.

they wouldn't put soldier against family or friends
just my guess
northcom and dhs will over see or "be in charge"
troops will be shuttled to other locales
while other troops are shuttled in their home base or state
to de-sensitize
say texas troops are sent to iowa
iowa troops are sent to california
etc

In my humble opinion, there will be no civil war.

All the government has to do is control the power grid. Turn off power for a month and wait. Then state that you will turn the grid back on if you turn in your guns, banners, flags. ''Most" Americans would (sadly) capitulate.

If there were to be any time of conflict, I imagine it would be an insurrection-type or guerrilla warfare.

Originally posted by FrankieNinja
With the increasing thunder and beating of war drums, and speculation on what would be the spark, I wonder, who would actually follow POTUS' orders to turn on American citizens. I mean... Surely their are many loyal soldiers on ATS. But who would actually turn their guns on family? How would they justify it? I just can't imagine where a US serviceman would shoot me for standing up for the very same Constitution That he/she has sworn to defend and uphold?

Genocide is always legitimized by the state through such methods as "problem reaction solution" and propaganda. Soldiers or agents of the offending state must first be convinced they are doing their duty.

Remember that in 1932 50,000 American Veterans were assembled in Washington DC to demand their pay. Generals Patton and MacArthur massacred them by rolling tanks through them ON AMERICAN SOIL. This was all on the grounds that the Veterans were peacefully assembled and asking for a redress of grievances. Their utter disrespect for the constitution didn't seem to hurt their careers. They were only following orders and doing their duty, after all.

reply to post by beezzer


I agree.

Like you said, the most that would happen would be an a insurgency which would be branded a domestic terrorist organisation. This is when you would see actual combat drones over american soil, soldiers raiding peoples homes, and government surveillance all over the place (more so than what is common now).

Violence against government is not the answer, the only action that can be taken is being active in the system we have created; i.e. voting, being engaged in political discussion, just getting involved with the all around process.

All violence will bring is tyranny and dead children.

Originally posted by beezzer
In my humble opinion, there will be no civil war.

All the government has to do is control the power grid. Turn off power for a month and wait. Then state that you will turn the grid back on if you turn in your guns, banners, flags. ''Most" Americans would (sadly) capitulate.

If there were to be any time of conflict, I imagine it would be an insurrection-type or guerrilla warfare.

If they turned off the power grid for a month that would cause a civil war IMO. At the least chaos as the economy would halt and people would be looking to survive.

reply to post by beezzer


Any smart revolutionary group is just going to take the power grid back which is where the govt. is bound to lose. On the ground.

I am sure that there are secret government documents that would show the "threshold" of how much the economy would withstand and the populace could withstand in relation to a power grid outage.

Regardless of whether it's a month or five days, it's probably been factored in.

Just my humble. . .

Originally posted by beezzer
I am sure that there are secret government documents that would show the "threshold" of how much the economy would withstand and the populace could withstand in relation to a power grid outage.

Regardless of whether it's a month or five days, it's probably been factored in.

Just my humble. . .

With no trucks running most major cities would be war zones within a week as store shelves emptied within 24 hours. No gas pumps running, no atm's, no heat or AC, no banks etc. all business would cease and people would panic post haste. Most people have no clue what to do if they can't run to the market every couple days. Just sayin my friend.

reply to post by hawkiye


Exactly. Of course the government would rush in to provide a "solution" to the problem (that they originally created).

reply to post by FrankieNinja


Where does this belief that the military will not turn on citizens come from? History has shown and even our own history has shown, that they will. Brother against brother, father against son; both happened in the Civil War, why would it be different now?!

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Exactly. Of course the government would rush in to provide a "solution" to the problem (that they originally created).

Ok I think I get you however I think if they waited around for month their would be no turning back.

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Originally posted by beezzer
In my humble opinion, there will be no civil war.

All the government has to do is control the power grid. Turn off power for a month and wait.

Power generation is in state locales.

The "federal goverment" does not have control to shut down the power grid, since it is the power companies, which are granted a monopoly by states and are regulated by the states, that set up the interconnected power grid so they can sell power to each other and electric coops in rural areas.

Personally, i can live without electricity. Though i do have 2 generators,i also have a lot of wildlife around me Those in large cities can not. More than likely an economic collapse would create riots,looting,rape,etc. That would signal the beginning i would guess. The entitlements are not sustainable and they may well be our undoing. Intentional? Maybe. I would not want to live in a large city at this point.

The United States of America IS a soldiers family. What would be the point of dying for it otherwise?

Explanation: S&F!

Great question OP!

I am reminded terribly of what started the Arab Sring uprising!
Tunisia: Revolution [wiki]

The Tunisian revolution was an intensive campaign of civil resistance, including a series of street demonstrations that took place in Tunisia. The events began when Mohamed Bouazizi, a 26-year old Tunisian street vendor, set himself afire on 17 December 2010, in protest of the confiscation of his wares and the humiliation that was inflicted on him by a municipal official. This act became the catalyst for mass demonstrations and riots throughout Tunisia in protest of social and political issues in the country. Anger and violence intensified following Bouazizi's death on 4 January 2011, ultimately leading longtime President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali to step down on 14 January 2011, after 23 years in power.

The demonstrations were precipitated by high unemployment, food inflation, corruption, a lack of freedom of speech and other political freedoms and poor living conditions. The protests constituted the most dramatic wave of social and political unrest in Tunisia in three decades and resulted in scores of deaths and injuries, most of which were the result of action by police and security forces against demonstrators. Labour unions were said to be an integral part of the protests. The protests inspired similar actions throughout the Arab world as well as elsewhere in the wider North Africa and Middle East.

In response to the demonstrations, Ben Ali declared a state of emergency in the country, dissolved the government on 14 January 2011, and promised new legislative elections within six months. But on that same day Prime Minister Mohammed Ghannouchi went on state television to say he was assuming power in Tunisia. However, the head of Tunisia's Constitutional Court, Fethi Abdennadher, confirmed that Ghannouchi violated the constitution. Fouad Mebazaa became acting President following the Constitutional Court's interpretation of the situation and the Constitution. It was soon confirmed, however, that Ben Ali had fled to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

Protests continued in Tunisia to call for banning of the ruling party and the eviction of all its members from the transitional government formed by Mohammed Ghannouchi. Eventually the new government gave in to the demands and a new prime minister Beji Caid-Essebsi was appointed by the acting president on Thursday, 3 March 2011. Two of the first actions made after the appointment of the new government were the decision of the Tunis court to ban the ex-ruling party RCD and to confiscate all its resources, and a decree by the minister of the interior banning the "political police" including what has been known as the state security special forces which were used to intimidate and persecute political activists.

Personal Disclosure: Dear God I PRAY TO YOU!

As A Chosen One aka A Martyr from out of the crowd of "We, The People!" Standing Up and Speaking Out for for The Principles of Fair Go and Freedom ... Reporting for Duty Sir/Mam!

Let me be the only sacrifice! ... Let my body be the only one that gets burned upon the altar! ...
LET IT BE MY BLOOD THAT WATERS THE TREE OF LIBERTY!

So let it be written! So let it be DONE! AMEN!

Hail Eris! Hail Achlys!

Originally posted by jimmiec
Personally, i can live without electricity. Though i do have 2 generators,i also have a lot of wildlife around me Those in large cities can not. More than likely an economic collapse would create riots,looting,rape,etc. That would signal the beginning i would guess. The entitlements are not sustainable and they may well be our undoing. Intentional? Maybe. I would not want to live in a large city at this point.

I live on an old family farm, and have been autonomous in power generation since 1992, using a combination of hydro, wind, solar and a backup of a volkswagon diesel engine as a generator.

One of the reasons I moved back to the farm was to get away from the chaos that cities would see when the collapse comes.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


You said exactly what I was thinking after I read the OP. It has already happened in our country let alone in countless other countries. Great thing about soldiers is that they've had it drilled into their heads to follow orders no matter what. Also the soldiering profession doesn't exactly attract the most brilliant minds into it. Especially the front line soldiers.

Not to say that there aren't soldiers who can't think for themselves (I was one of them), just saying that the government would have no short supply of meat shields to do exactly what they say in the name of tyran...er...liberty.

reply to post by FrankieNinja


Your making too broad a statement there...

Would I Lock & Load on an average Joe...No...

how about we change that to say a good ole all American group like MS 13 on a bloodthirsty rampage through my neighbourhood... Yeah I can draw a bead on that kind of American...Like a rabid dog needing to be put down.

Our oath says all enemies foreign and domestic...Domestic would a group like MS 13 who killed anyone without cause or reason. but a domestic enemy would be any group that threatens our country, our civil liberties the health and safety of our civil population and the very tenants that made our country proud and free... So yeah, within reason I can see our armed services taking up arms, but the people we'd fighting would have given up any right to be called an American