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Originally posted by bl4ke360
Because we have a bill of rights, not a bill of needs.
Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by MikeNice81
My skills are only relevant insofar that they may be used against you. . .
My fear is that Americans are losing perspective on this. The danger here is a skilled standing Army which, in the future, could give its allegiance to something other than the Constitution. Someone in particular rather than the people as a whole. The way things are going, I see this as a very real possibility.
Luis Moreno-Ocampo was the Chief Prosecutor at the International Criminal Court who investigated allegations of War Crimes during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. He published an open letter containing his findings; in a section titled "Allegations concerning War Crimes", he elucidates this use of proportionality:
Under international humanitarian law and the Rome Statute, the death of civilians during an armed conflict, no matter how grave and regrettable, does not in itself constitute a war crime. International humanitarian law and the Rome Statute permit belligerents to carry out proportionate attacks against military objectives,[5] even when it is known that some civilian deaths or injuries will occur. A crime occurs if there is an intentional attack directed against civilians (principle of distinction) (Article 8(2)(b)(i)) or an attack is launched on a military objective in the knowledge that the incidental civilian injuries would be clearly excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage (principle of proportionality) (Article 8(2)(b)(iv)).
Article 8(2)(b)(iv) criminalizes:
Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;
Article 8(2)(b)(iv) draws on the principles in Article 51(5)(b) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, but restricts the criminal prohibition to cases that are "clearly" excessive. The application of Article 8(2)(b)(iv) requires, inter alia, an assessment of:
(a) the anticipated civilian damage or injury;
(b) the anticipated military advantage;
(c) and whether (a) was "clearly excessive" in relation to (b).
— Luis Moreno-Ocampo
Originally posted by xEphon
The government is made up of citizens. It isn't some otherworldly entity that acts of its own accord.
If our own countrymen are willing to act out these scenarios that you imagine will happen, we have much bigger issues than whether or not ARs and AKs sales are restricted.
Hugh McGinnis; First Battalion, Co. K, Seventh Cavalry: "General Nelson A. Miles who visited the scene of carnage, following a three day blizzard, estimated that around 300 snow shrouded forms were strewn over the countryside. He also discovered to his horror that helpless children and women with babes in their arms had been chased as far as two miles from the original scene of encounter and cut down without mercy by the troopers. ... Judging by the slaughter on the battlefield it was suggested that the soldiers simply went berserk. For who could explain such a merciless disregard for life? ...
President Franklin D. Roosevelt authorized the internment with Executive Order 9066, issued February 19, 1942, which allowed local military commanders to designate "military areas" as "exclusion zones," from which "any or all persons may be excluded." This power was used to declare that all people of Japanese ancestry were excluded from the entire Pacific coast, including all of California and much of Oregon, Washington and Arizona, except for those in internment camps.[8] In 1944, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the exclusion orders,[9] while noting that the provisions that singled out people of Japanese ancestry were a separate issue outside the scope of the proceedings.[10] The United States Census Bureau assisted the internment efforts by providing confidential neighborhood information on Japanese Americans. The Bureau's role was denied for decades, but was finally proven in 2007.
WASHINGTON — This was the enemy, served up in the latest chart from the intelligence agencies: 15 Qaeda suspects in Yemen with Western ties. The mug shots and brief biographies resembled a high school yearbook layout. Several were Americans. Two were teenagers, including a girl who looked even younger than her 17 years. . .
It was not a theoretical question: Mr. Obama has placed himself at the helm of a top secret “nominations” process to designate terrorists for kill or capture, of which the capture part has become largely theoretical. . .
When he applies his lawyering skills to counterterrorism, it is usually to enable, not constrain, his ferocious campaign against Al Qaeda — even when it comes to killing an American cleric in Yemen, a decision that Mr. Obama told colleagues was “an easy one.”
Originally posted by MikeNice81
Originally posted by xEphon
The government is made up of citizens. It isn't some otherworldly entity that acts of its own accord.
If our own countrymen are willing to act out these scenarios that you imagine will happen, we have much bigger issues than whether or not ARs and AKs sales are restricted.
The government is a class or group of people acting in the name of the citizens. Unfortunately history, and academic studies,show that people with power tend to abuse it to gain more power. The same lessons also teach that people will follow bad commands even from the flimsiest of authorities.
If you don't believe the government will do horrible things, you haven't studied history or kept abreast of current events.
So, the current government has assassinated American citizens in countries where we are not at war. They are currently considering killing more. Plus, the president finds it an easy decision to execute an American citizen without due process and violate the sovereignty of another nation in one swoop. All of this teams up with the NDAA granting indefinite detention powers to the president.
Forgive me if I do not trust in the benevolence of those that sit in positions of power. I find it hard to wonder if when it is a question of when the next thing will happen.edit on 28-1-2013 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by okyouwin
You obviously missed the point.
Try to imagine a force, trained and equipped like the military is today, but without the allegiance to the people.
What do you think this force would do to you? Your family? Your friends?
edit on 27-1-2013 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by okyouwin
Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by okyouwin
You obviously missed the point.
Try to imagine a force, trained and equipped like the military is today, but without the allegiance to the people.
What do you think this force would do to you? Your family? Your friends?
edit on 27-1-2013 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)
And me alone with a room full of automatic weapons is going to change that? I guess I'm missing something here. If the entire force of the United States Military is brought against me and my family. there is not going to be much I can do by myself. I know it has a romantic feel to resisting oppression. but to blaze away at a contingent of trained soldiers in a defiant last stand sounds like a quick way to suicide. Should the government decide it needs to round up it's citizens and declare war on them, a resistance force has really only option, and that is best described as terrorist tactics
As the world becomes more and more populated and resources become more and more scarce, real or imagined, personal liberties are going to take it on the chin. Resist if you have to but it is going have to be organized and supported by an outside source or country. dream on about heroic resistance. But you better get practical and spend less time polishing the Ar, and more time forming networks.
At 4:45 p.m., commanded by Gen. Douglas MacArthur, the 12th Infantry Regiment, Fort Howard, Maryland, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, supported by six battle tanks commanded by Maj. George S. Patton, formed in Pennsylvania Avenue while thousands of civil service employees left work to line the street and watch. The Bonus Marchers, believing the troops were marching in their honor, cheered the troops until Patton ordered the cavalry to charge them—an action which prompted the spectators to yell, "Shame! Shame!"
After the cavalry charged, the infantry, with fixed bayonets and adamsite gas, an arsenical vomiting agent, entered the camps, evicting veterans, families, and camp followers. The veterans fled across the Anacostia River to their largest camp and President Hoover ordered the assault stopped. However Gen. MacArthur, feeling the Bonus March was a Communist attempt to overthrow the U.S. government, ignored the President and ordered a new attack. Fifty-five veterans were injured and 135 arrested.[11] A veteran's wife miscarried. When 12-week-old Bernard Myers died in the hospital after being caught in the tear gas attack, a government investigation reported he died of enteritis, while a hospital spokesman said the tear gas "didn't do it any good."
At the orders of New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, the New Orleans Police, the National Guard, the Oklahoma National Guard, and U.S. Marshals have begun breaking into homes at gunpoint, confiscating their lawfully-owned firearms, and evicting the residents. "No one is allowed to be armed. We're going to take all the guns," says P. Edwin Compass III, the superintendent of police.
reply to post by xEphon
I agree with you 100% and I think most of the people are missing this point. If the government is able to employ its own military against us, and they are as trained and deadly as the OP claims he is, with all their current firepower, do you really think your AK is going to save you?