This old man has nothing to do with Jesus

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

BTW OP: The first picture in your OP isn't Jesus either... In my opinion, Jesus would have had short hair due to Jewish tradition, but the long hair is a cemented part of symbolism that is apparent in all paintings and portraits of Jesus.

Actually, that is a representation of Jesus resurrected, you can see the tomb behind him.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by adjensen

 

Well, calling me crazy won't change the truth. This old man lives like a king.

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- When he was elected last April, Pope Benedict XVI inherited the papal apartment on the top floor of the Apostolic Palace, but it wasn't until Christmas that the pope could really call it home.

The apartment, about 10 rooms in all, underwent a three-month renovation this fall. Electrical wiring was replaced, new pipes were installed, the kitchen was refurbished and a custom-fitted private library was put in place.

It was "Extreme Makeover: Vatican Edition." And while the pope didn't whoop or jump up and down at the unveiling, he made it clear he was pleased with the results.

"I can only admire the things you've done, like these beautiful floors," he told the more than 200 architects, engineers and workers involved in the remodeling project.

www.catholicnews.com...

If you pay attention, I'm using catholic sources.

He's not calling you crazy, Adjenson was directing his insults at me, as he usually does when interacting with me. And it's usually the same insults that have something to do with my supposed lower intelligence.

Thanks for making that clear, now let's put an "Stigma" on him.

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

BTW OP: The first picture in your OP isn't Jesus either... In my opinion, Jesus would have had short hair due to Jewish tradition, but the long hair is a cemented part of symbolism that is apparent in all paintings and portraits of Jesus.

Actually, that is a representation of Jesus resurrected, you can see the tomb behind him.

Wait, so I dont understand, help clear this up for me: Because Jesus was resurrected, long locks of brown hair were grown? It's a joke and a serious question to clarify what you are saying.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
SOMETHING DOESN'T ADD UP!

Where did most of that artwork come from? It was commissioned by the church (meaning that it wouldn't exist in the first place, short of the church paying someone to make it) or it was donated by someone, who probably wouldn't be keen on seeing it go into the hands of a private collector and essentially vanish from view.

Most church assets are in real estate, and even with their financial shortfalls, they can't really sell off a bunch of churches to pay the bills and feed the poor -- there's that "donated to be a church" bit, as well as the lack of a market for giant churches.

Meanwhile, in fiscal year 2008, Catholic Charities USA, whose motto is "Working to Reduce Poverty in America", spent $3.42 billion (with a "B") on charitable services.

Yeah, what doesn't add up is people who whine about the Pope having orange trees, while ignoring the fact that the Catholic Church is already one of the largest charitable organizations fighting poverty in the world.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
SOMETHING DOESN'T ADD UP!

Where did most of that artwork come from? It was commissioned by the church (meaning that it wouldn't exist in the first place, short of the church paying someone to make it) or it was donated by someone, who probably wouldn't be keen on seeing it go into the hands of a private collector and essentially vanish from view.

Most church assets are in real estate, and even with their financial shortfalls, they can't really sell off a bunch of churches to pay the bills and feed the poor -- there's that "donated to be a church" bit, as well as the lack of a market for giant churches.

Meanwhile, in fiscal year 2008, Catholic Charities USA, whose motto is "Working to Reduce Poverty in America", spent $3.42 billion (with a "B") on charitable services.

Yeah, what doesn't add up is people who whine about the Pope having orange trees, while ignoring the fact that the Catholic Church is already one of the largest charitable organizations fighting poverty in the world.

Maybe I am wrong about the charity issues and I thank you for bringing that to light. But I will also try and bring that light to its full luminescence.

Just because a corporation is a charitable organization does not relieve its controversial nature and history. Let me preface this with the assumption that the church is corporation from the way you talk about it and the lack of a market of giant churches.

Take for instance, Coca Cola. Coca Cola is an active member of the community and a big charitable organization. However, they are criticized for massive water shortages in India.

All in all, the church takes more than it gives and if you can't see this fact documented by history, then I am done. That statistic of the church being the largest charitable organization is merely a band aid. The church is in its place today by usurping power and goods from the world on a massive level in the past. Hypothetically speaking, if I stole 1,000,000,000 dollars from the public under the pretense of fear and salvation and I gave back 250,000,000 under the pretense of charity, does that make me good? I still stand by the notion that the pope perpetuates the flaws of the church by not destroying the traditions that horribly stigmatized the church and Christianity.

And I am not whining about the Pope having citrus trees, so get off that notion of trying to ridicule me. I am putting forth my disdain for the luxurious lifestyle of the pope and the church when it is supposed to epitomize love and its tangential qualities, such as HUMILITY, like Christ especially if you are to claim to be the God's representative on earth. If you were to critically analyze what I said, you would understand this position. Such unfounded, grandiose claims make others disdain Christianity when they see an old man parading around in the church's fine metals and jewels under the shield of bulletproof glasses acquired through blood and fear.

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by windword

 

What wings?

Ah!



I saw the bright lighting, highlighting the stone behind Jesus as wings. My mistake.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

BTW OP: The first picture in your OP isn't Jesus either... In my opinion, Jesus would have had short hair due to Jewish tradition, but the long hair is a cemented part of symbolism that is apparent in all paintings and portraits of Jesus.

Actually, that is a representation of Jesus resurrected, you can see the tomb behind him.

Wait, so I dont understand, help clear this up for me: Because Jesus was resurrected, long locks of brown hair were grown?

It's a joke and a serious question to clarify what you are saying.

The image was used as an example of the clothes he wears, hair and other details are an artistic expression.

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

BTW OP: The first picture in your OP isn't Jesus either... In my opinion, Jesus would have had short hair due to Jewish tradition, but the long hair is a cemented part of symbolism that is apparent in all paintings and portraits of Jesus.

Actually, that is a representation of Jesus resurrected, you can see the tomb behind him.

Wait, so I dont understand, help clear this up for me: Because Jesus was resurrected, long locks of brown hair were grown?

It's a joke and a serious question to clarify what you are saying.

The image was used as an example of the clothes he wears, hair and other details are an artistic expression.

Ah ok, so you were trying to show the humility of Christ symbolized through the purity and simplicity of Christ's garments in comparison to the Pope's opulent wardrobe adorned with the "sacred" color of red, gold, and fine jewels? I thought you were trying to say Jesus's hair is long because he was resurrected, my bad . I always thought that long hair was an inaccurate depiction of Christ but I see the symbolism behind the long hair.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


Yeah, whatever, haters gotta hate, I understand that.

Let's all blame the Pope, his clothes for Mass and the artwork that the Vatican has collected, paid for and preserved for 2000 years (and shares with the public) for the world's ills, even though his church is demonstrably one of the largest groups of people that's actually doing something about it.

How much charity did you and your church do in 2008? If it's anything like mine, not much -- we had a couple of dinners for the homeless, spent maybe $500 and did some fundraisers. Woo-hoo, go us.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

Yeah, whatever, haters gotta hate, I understand that.

Let's all blame the Pope, his clothes for Mass and the artwork that the Vatican has collected, paid for and preserved for 2000 years (and shares with the public) for the world's ills, even though his church is demonstrably one of the largest groups of people that's actually doing something about it.

How much charity did you and your church do in 2008? If it's anything like mine, not much -- we had a couple of dinners for the homeless, spent maybe $500 and did some fundraisers. Woo-hoo, go us.

This is one of the fundamental failings of the church - any and every church.
We were given two jobs:

1) to care for the fatherless and the widow (charity)
2) preach the gospel, anywhere and everywhere, in season, out of season.


Despite the fact that there are examples of people truly living out each of these things, the church by and large fails its responsibility - not to the world, but to Christ, in not doing these things.

You can criticise the Catholic church on both of these fronts, with perfect justification. The Catholic church is one of the richest organisations in the world. What did Jesus say to the rich young man who came to him? "Sell all you have, give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."

Why, then, do our churches hoard gold, money, art, and other valuables? What possible good do they do us here? "Do not store up for yourself treasure here on earth; rather, store up treasure in heaven".

The Catholic church, if it truly wishes to follow Christ, needs to sell all it has, give the money to the poor, and seek treasure in heaven.

"...and the rich young man went away sad, because he had great wealth."

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

Yeah, whatever, haters gotta hate, I understand that.

Let's all blame the Pope, his clothes for Mass and the artwork that the Vatican has collected, paid for and preserved for 2000 years (and shares with the public) for the world's ills, even though his church is demonstrably one of the largest groups of people that's actually doing something about it.

How much charity did you and your church do in 2008? If it's anything like mine, not much -- we had a couple of dinners for the homeless, spent maybe $500 and did some fundraisers. Woo-hoo, go us.

If you think my posts have been revolving on hate, you are solely mistaken. If you think my stance on the church is based on hate, you have never written the works around the Renaissance period that criticizes the church. "Hate" and "disdain" are two different things and I travel upon that line accordingly in regard to the history and actions of the Church. Also as a remainder, my disdain is not directed to those that earnestly know the love of God, but those who are in charge and misuse that power is where my disapproval is headed.

LOL... to address your point about the Church being demonstrably one of the largest groups of people that actually is doing something about the world's ills, I have four things to say: It's about time, it's only a band aid, it's a campaign to relieve the church of its past atrocities in the name of God, and it's only right the church tries to fix the world's ills that they have directly and indirectly have had a hand in. Dark Ages anyone? Crusades? Plenty of other references on the list of "How the Church Messed up the World." It would not be wise to think that these historical events did not have an impact on modern society.

The only benefit, although it's hard to consider this a benefit, that the Church has brought along is the spreading of Jesus, albeit their teachings of God, Heaven, Jesus, his purpose and teachings, and the sacred dimension are skewed, which brings us closer to the end of this cycle.

You should know charity is not dependent on its physical value, but more of the heart behind it. A 25 cent donation from a person that earnestly gives that donation has more value than the physical can limit.

reply to post by adjensen

Yeah, whatever, haters gotta hate, I understand that.

Let's all blame the Pope, his clothes for Mass and the artwork that the Vatican has collected, paid for and preserved for 2000 years (and shares with the public) for the world's ills, even though his church is demonstrably one of the largest groups of people that's actually doing something about it.

How much charity did you and your church do in 2008? If it's anything like mine, not much -- we had a couple of dinners for the homeless, spent maybe $500 and did some fundraisers. Woo-hoo, go us.

Even though I disagree with the teachings of Christianity in many aspects, I hold a lot of respect for the Catholic church because they give importance to the act of charity. Thats the closest any Christian church has come to practicing the idea of "love", which keeps getting a lot of lip service.

Its not something I can say for the other politicized churches...especially the zionist evangelical ones that are more interested in apocalyptic and hellfire / brimstone themes and spend their time praising Israel. I hope they are only a vocal minority.

I'm a little confused by this thread. (Of course, I'm always confused) I'm seeing "The Church is bad," "The Church isn't doing enough charitable work," "The church should sell off it's art," and "The Pope lives too well." None of those really seem to have much to do with the OP's headline which seems to be saying "You can't be a real Christian if you have good things."

The Pope is a head of state, and responsible for feeding the souls of all mankind, especially the billion plus of his Church. There have been assasination attempts. He travels to visit and deliver messages all over the world. They have diplomatic offices everywhere. How does his life style compare to the Obama's? His vacation retreat is in the same country as his office. Designers and jewellers don't compete for his business.

He has nice meals daily? Pick a leader, like Obama. They have a projectionist on duty 24/7, I've been told. And chefs? Bunches. Ok, forget heads of state. What about heads of businesses? What's their life style. What I'm trying to say is that it seems strange to compare his life to anyone else's with similar responsibilities and say his is extravagant. He doesn't have time to make his own coffee, or handwrite everything coming out of his office. I just don't see the extravagance.

And why doesn't he sell the art? That's not an option.

According to Vatican correspondent John L. Allen Jr. in his book All the Pope's Men, one reason that the Vatican doesn't sell off such treasures is that the Vatican doesn't believe that the treasures are the Vatican's to sell. They are considered the patrimony of mankind, entrusted to the Vatican for safekeeping, and cannot be sold or borrowed against. Indeed, the Vatican values them at one euro each for purposes of internal bookkeeping and spends a great deal of money to preserve the treasures for future generations.

If such treasures were sold and the money given to the poor, that money would soon be gone and mankind would be culturally impoverished by the loss of such artifacts into private hands. Besides, it is not offensive to religious sensibilities for a Church to maintain such beautiful treasures for the glory of God. If the Temple in Jerusalem could be richly ordained in order to glorify God and to inspire human worship, the universal Church of God can be richly ordained for the same purposes.

Why doesn't the president sell Mt. Rushmore and all the National Parks? Maybe they could sell the original Declaration of Independence, or the White House.

And all the huge amounts of money?

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- The Holy See sustained its largest budget deficit of the past decade in 2011 as a result of global financial trends, the Vatican said July 5. But Vatican City State, which includes the income-generating Vatican Museums and Vatican post office, ended 2011 with a surplus of 21.8 million euros ($27 million).

The budget of the Holy See, which includes the offices of the Roman Curia and its communications outlets such as Vatican Radio, recorded a deficit of 14.9 million euros ($18.4 million) at the end of 2011. It was the largest budget deficit recorded in the past decade and reversed the 2010 surplus of 9.8 million euros ($12 million).

Total expenditures for the Holy See in 2011 were 263.7 million euros ($326.4 million) with 248.8 million euros ($308 million) in revenues.

Those revenues are less than those for the city of Tacoma, Washington
www.catholicnews.com...

So, help me out. What's the problem?

"This old man has nothing to do with Jesus"

All of these false religions are in reality a form of mind control deliberately created to HIDE the truth.

All of them conflict with each other as well as with the Word of God and yet all of them bare resemblance that points to a single source.

That source is Gods enemy.

One clue: they always lie and deliberately deceive...

Just like the father of all lies.

If God were behind these religions WHY is the fruit only hate, lies, and death?

I am 100% convinced that the hidden agenda behind them is to keep you disconnected from God and the truth.

If these religions WERE in fact from God, they would connect us WITH God and the truth.

They do EXACTLY the opposite.

The end result is this:

"Then the Lord took me to a place where there was a very well-known man. Before now, I used to live as an ignorant young christian. I used to think that any person that died would go to Heaven; that those who celebrated mass would also go to heaven, but I was wrong. When Pope John Paul II died, my friends and relatives would tell me that he had gone to heaven. All the news on TV and other media would say: “Pope John Paul II has died, may his soul rest in peace. He is now rejoicing with the Lord and his angels in heaven” and I believed all of it.

But I was only fooling myself, because I saw him in Hell, being tormented by flames. I looked at his face and recognized him. The Lord said to me, “Look, daughter, that man that you see there, is Pope John Paul II. He is here in this place being tormented because he did not repent.”

But I asked, “Lord, why is he here? He used to preach at church.” Jesus replied: “Daughter, no fornicator, no idolater, no one who is greedy and no liar will inherit My Kingdom.” (Ephesians 5:5). I replied, “Yes, I know that is true, but I would like to know why he is here, because he used to preach to multitudes of people!”

And Jesus responded, “Yes, daughter, he may have said many things, but he would never speak the truth as it is. He never said the truth. Although he knew the truth, he preferred money over preaching about salvation. He never told the truth; he would not say that hell is real and that heaven also exists. Daughter, now he is here in this place.”

Pope John Paul II in Hell

YouTube - Pope John Paul II is in Hell

reply to post by Murgatroid

How does your post have anything to do with the topic, which is Pope B16? I'll try to answer if it connects to this thread.

reply to post by Trueman

actually want to keep it simple.

Yeah, and you sure did. Star and flag. I hope I get a chance to drop the clown line someday soon.

2nd.

Originally posted by charles1952
How does your post have anything to do with the topic, which is Pope B16? I'll try to answer if it connects to this thread.

In a way you are correct.

Truth and religion have NOTHING in common.

I tend to focus on the truth since there ARE a few here on ATS who are actually interested in it.

reply to post by Trueman


Jesus said to call no man Father, except your Father in Heaven.

Matthew 23:9-12
But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

Paul, and the Church, have other ideas…

1 Corinthians 4:14
I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children. Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

- JC

reply to post by Trueman


why do i look at your pic of pope benedict and think of :

guild navigator

i saw a documentary on youtube last week that had some journalist questioning the vatican why they invest their money in the porn industry.

they are doing the lords work

LOL