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Schizophrenia is a lie told by the Establishment

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posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 01:23 PM
reply to post by atlasastro

I highly agree to most of your points.
A schizophrenic seeking treatment should, in my opinion, be simply focused upon living a life as healthy and normal as s/he can, as the posters here who have or had this illness do.
I also think that the "herbal intoxication" I allude to is actually paralleling this mental illness, thus I never encourage anyone to engage in it regularly, I myself have stayed away from anything like that for over a decade now, preferring to rely upon natural altered states of dreaming, active imagination and Ericksonian trance (I am an NLP professional). Research is out now to prove that the earlier people try this intoxication, the harder it is for them to adjust to consensus reality. (Luckily I had all my experiments in my twenties, not earlier). Also, it has been my experience that you can replicate all pleasant or interesting altered states in Ericksonian trance, however, it is self-limiting - normal people will return to an everyday state when their conscious and unconscious minds see it fit, and profit as much from the experience as they see fit. Indeed, in meditation I have had much more interesting states of mind, contrary to what McKenna asserts.

The "filter" theory is tentative at best, it is interesting to consider from a theoretical point of view for psychologists and others in the helping profession.
One useful aspect of all this research in therapy and altered states is that the verbal side of our life should match the nonverbal side. Now this is notoriously out of whack for people diagnosed with schizophrenia, and (along with the meds) the more they can express their feelings, and the more they can understand what others say in consensus language, the better their everyday status is.

The scientific understanding of time and space etc. however is knowledge that is transmitted via words. People learn it at school. However, time to time, science is dazzled by certain abilities of mentally unstable or maladjusted individuals, for instance the mathematical calculating abilities of certain autistic people. Also, there have been significant contributions to the arts by people who had mental illness, such as Van Gogh.

Philosophically, you can say that there is not one "alternate reality" of perception, cultures and individuals differ on how to interpret the world. The hard sciences work with equations and specific descriptions to circumvent this problem. Yet it is a "soft science," linguistics, which is my home field, that proved (not everyone adheres to this theory) that different languages shape our thinking slightly differently.

While language does work only by agreement of a group of people, and in reality each one of us interprets the same words slightly differently (the more abstract they are, the more differences can be observed in the actual thinking process), the mentally ill sometimes live too much in their own world of interpretations, and turns of language are interpreted by them in a radically different way than by average speakers of the same language. Frequently personal or family trauma lies behind this, but humanistic psychology only answers for a part of this problem - it is possible that everything from vitamins to genetics comes into the large picture.

So just because shamans or people exploring, let us say, out-of-body experiences by binaural sounds (as in the famous Monroe Institute) actively seek altered states for healing and inspiration (and in the case of inventors, even concrete scientific solutions are found in naturally altered states - naps etc.), and schizophrenics have very special and individual explanations, which sometimes also go together with altered states (usually unhappy ones, I must add), the two are not IMHO the same, they bear similarity only in that intuition and a mythic-archetypal type of understanding is more important than reasoning and consensus reality. Other than that, there are more differences than similarities...

posted on Feb, 5 2013 @ 06:36 PM

Originally posted by paxnatus
I have been a member here since 2007. I certainly know the t&c so I will refrain from just coming out and asking, are you a dumbass or what?

Im gonna go out on a limb here and share what only a few on ATS already know about myself. I am Schizophrenic. I was diagnosed when I was 35, misdiagnosed as classic bipolar, you know that other illness
us crazies have ( rolling eyes). I am happy, healthy, been married for almost 19 years and the mother of a a 17 year old girl, and a 16 year old boy. I go hiking, rock climbing, as well as write music and sing. I'm funloving, "crazy at times" loving, compassionate, sexy, bright and honest. I am an R.N. and have 17+ years exper. in trauma nursing as well as several different areas in the field.

I am not trying to tell you every detail of my life, but I am trying to show you that having a serious mental illness does not define someone, it is only part of that person. It makes up ALL the good, the beautiful, the bad and the ugly.

I have some pretty severe symptoms when I have a break through, meaning when my meds need to be adjusted.
If you have seen A Beautiful Mind or know the story of John Nash, well that has been me at times! I am not ashamed of this illness. I thank God everyday that there are medications that can control the symptoms.

Schizophrenia, is not glamorous, fun, enlightening or controllable. It is not some mind control game played by the government such as Mk ULTRA, nor is it a gift where we have super natural powers! Big pharma is not behind it nor are we possessed by demons!

Schizophrenia is a chemical imbalance that causes distortions in one's perceptions. It can affect all senses but not always. It does usually involve delusions and/or hallucinations. very seldom are schizophrenics violent but they can be!

Please spend some time educating yourself and learning how the brain functions it will help you understand all mental illness.....Do not further stigamatize schizophrenia by being ignorant to the subject matter. Many on ATS as well as myself would appreciate it.

Am I ashamed of having schizophrenia? No I am not; that would be like me being ashamed of just being me.
I would like to encourage anyone who has a mental illness to step forward and help educate the people whom just don't get us......

Thanks for letting me share,

One more thing, most of us are brilliant!

Dear paxnatus,

As we are laymen or "normals" seeking to interpret experiences such as yours, and you so bravely described what the trauma was that led to your diagnosis of schizophrenia (which you seem to be handling the best way you could), I was wondering if you gave us a brief list of your symptoms from the realm of your less good experiences.

Did you have auditory and visual hallucinations? If yes, can you give us details of perception? Altered way of meaning? Ideas of reference - that means, some outside happening in the world seems to point at your personal world. Overwhelming emotions of fear or distrust or emotional pain unexplained? Did you ever entertain paranoid ideas? What were they? Since you seem to be really in control of this disease (and I read the OP of your thread describing the trauma that was the onset, you say), you can be a better judge of what happened at a

You don't have to answer any of these questions if you do not feel safe. But to do so it would be helpful to us civilians' understanding. Details like, walking in a sunny street, I heard an inner voice over my left shoulder - about a middle aged male person - saying, he's coming back! Or, seeing secret message in unrelated stuff.
You already described your traumatic event in courageous detail and even gave advice to future rape sufferers. I am in the helping professions and details interest me because that is how we help normal patients with severe emotional problems like unsolved grief etc.

The film about Nash shows a political paranoia: he is delivering secret messages and he has an inner companion who seems real to the watcher in the beginning and is exposed towards the end of the movie as a hallucination. We don't know much about what goes on inside Dr. Nash - about the precise nature of the idea that he was an agent against a Communist takeover of the world, I think. When we simply face a roomful of ghosts trying to involve him in intelligence work with obviously 1940's style equipment - in the 1950's - we viewers are frightened, but if we heard all he heard and thought inside, the effect would be different. I think the movie creators made this distance between the objective and the subjective because they wanted to portray schizophrenia as frightening.

How different is this from my childhood nightmares when tigers stalked into the room? I had a slightly schizophrenic schoolmate at 7, he was telling me with all seriousness that knives able to cut through asphalt would come up any time on the streets while we were walking

posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 02:05 AM
reply to post by Kokatsi


Great post. I am a little pressed for time so forgive my lack of a reply, I will try and get back later and add something to your post.

Thanks again for your reply. It is great to read interesting and considered replies such as your own.

posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 01:02 PM
Is your view point that schizophrenics should be only focused on living a normal life really based upon self interest?The last thing people want is successful schizophrenics making all the normal people look bad. Would you like a schizophrenic who could do your job better than you, or a boss. Is it not more acceptable to help people who have no disadvantage like people of minority races, aid to other countries. At least if they succeed, we do not have to deal with the fact that maybe some of these people could be better at our job or interests than you and I, maybe be your boss. So instead you decide they should be happy with less than you are.

Why waste time helping people who should be able to help themselves. When most of us are unhappy with our lives it is our fault. So we help people like us so we can convince ourselves that our lack of achievement is really not our fault.
edit on 23-2-2013 by werewolf99 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 02:36 PM
Do you see a face no matter whether the mask is forwards or reversed?
People with schizophrenia tend to see a concave face when it's backwards. Normal functioning brains will interpret a backwards mask as a face, rather than what it actually is.

To cite the research further, I've added this link: - Schizophrenics see through hollow-mask illusion...

Telling the front from the back of a mask can be more difficult than it seems. Thanks to an effect called the hollow-mask illusion, the brain can have trouble deciding if the image is convex or concave.

But, it seems, not everyone struggles to correctly determine the mask's orientation. New research shows that people with schizophrenia are immune to the effect – a finding that means the illusion could provide a diagnostic test for the condition.
People with schizophrenia, which affects about 1 per cent of the population, are already known to be immune to certain visual illusions. Immunity to the hollow-mask illusion, says Danai Dima, of Hannover School of Medicine in Germany, suggests that the "bottom-up" process of collecting incoming visual information from the eyes, and the "top-down" process of interpreting this information is different in people with schizophrenia.

This is an example of something schizophrenics can do that normal people can't. Ironically, it appears this is the case because the higher functioning areas of the brain are incorrectly networked with the lower functioning areas. This prevents the higher functioning areas from filtering the information or routing it correctly. This can very easily lead to problems. In this case, the effect is immunity to certain visual illusions. But in other cases, I'm sure it's not as harmless and mostly unwanted.

See here: - Hollow-Face illusion...

Says Richard Gregory, "The strong visual bias of favouring seeing a hollow mask as a normal convex face is evidence for the power of top-down knowledge for vision".[1] This bias of seeing faces as convex is so strong it counters competing monocular depth cues, such as shading and shadows, and also very considerable unambiguous information from the two eyes signalling stereoscopically that the object is hollow. (Lighting a concave face from below to reverse the shading cues making them closer to those of a convex face lit from above can reinforce the illusion.)

Here's another example to demonstrate the power of this illusion:

edit on 23-2-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 02:52 PM
Yes but the question is how about those that can do things, work etc.... It seems very unfair to help the more able than the less. But this is normal after all the rich screw the poor.

posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 03:15 PM
reply to post by smurfy

I do have a response to a comment or inquiry of yours, but that'll be for tomorrow, pressed for time. Great thread OP!
Blessings and Peace All! Semper Fi!

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