Schizophrenia is a lie told by the Establishment, page 2

reply to post by Grifter42

---

i find it amazing that these alledged " malevolent entities " can be thwarted by anti-psycotics

Originally posted by Grifter42
reply to post by smurfy

---

I never said the Government. I said the Establishment, which is a broader category which includes most forms of authority, including medical and psychological authorities.
And the government HAS created people in a state that resembles schizophrenia, back during the MKULTRA years, when they were dosing people up with all sorts of chemicals.

Even then, I feel like the visions people experienced while under the effects of these chemicals probably were of insightful nature.

I do not trust psychologists, nor psychiatrists, or any other sort of shrink. They're trained in indoctrinating people into the norms of society. Nothing more, nothing less.

Meh, I already know about the disgraceful stuff played out by various government agencies, you can't pigeon hole that into something else as a lie though. So what are you talking about,

reply to post by Mugen

---

I looked after a guy who's Mother told him his voices were Demons from an early age, It ruined his life. His Mother didn't seek any help and only after her death did he seek help and get treated.
He spent 10 years sectioned due to his voices and his past but the good news is with medication he now has a job and although he still is poorly sometimes (normally when he thinks he is all better and doesn't take his meds) he is doing Ok.
You just keep entertaining the stupid Idea that auditory hallucinations are demons and help keep others in the same situation scared to seek help.

reply to post by Grifter42

---

I get what you mean. There was a movement that started in the 60's called anti-psychiatry and it was exactly that. How the disease could be a disease "invented" by society. The person gets pushed into that disease by professionals and starts to play the game. Even the first diagnoses, were clearly biased. About the voices, I even met a couple schizophrenics that told me they started hearing voices after they started taking medication. So, yes, somehow, it is a big lie. Look into the beginnings, from when it was still considered as a dementia and read about the corrupt doctors of the wonderful establishment. Nothing has changed much except that now, it's more subtle. It's medication instead of electroshocks and lobotomies. I guess there's more money to make that way... Check out anti-psychiatry. I'm surprised to be the only one to talk about it, especially on a site that has "deny ignorance" as it's motto.

reply to post by MysterX

---

Not right but an interesting idea.(Did you read the thread on the brain parasites from yesterday?)
Schizophrenia is only 100 or so years old as a word but there are instances recorded in history to do with people with Schizophrenia.

Read up on the first Asylum Bedlam founded in the thirteenth century.

www.medscape.org...

www.schizophrenia.com...

In the olden days people with Schizophrenia were locked away and forgotten about or seen as possessed and killed and such (much like the ideas of the OP) It is only recently (past 100 years or so) that we have been able to even try to treat it with any type of success.

It is 2013 people let's not think of mental illness like the people of the olden times did eh? Demons etc...It just harms the people suffering from mental illness and cements the stigma against it.

Anyhow that's all Iam going to say in this thread, just do some research people.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by MysterX

---

Not right but an interesting idea.(Did you read the thread on the brain parasites from yesterday?)
Schizophrenia is only 100 or so years old as a word but there are instances recorded in history to do with people with Schizophrenia.
www.medscape.org...

www.schizophrenia.com...

In the olden days people with Schizophrenia were locked away and forgotten about or seen as possessed and killed and such (much like the ideas of the OP) It is only recently (past 100 years or so) that we have been able to even try to treat it with any type of success.

It is 2013 people let's not think of mental illness like the people of the olden times did eh? Demons etc...It just harms the people suffering from mental illness and cements the stigma against it.

Anyhow that's all Iam going to say in this thread, just do some research people.

Hmmm..i think you might be wrong there boymonkey.

I said in my post that it was thought by many in the field to have been around throughout history and the symptoms became known as schizophrenia later. I wasn't sure exactly when the term was coined, but around 100 years sounds fine to me.

Here's a quote from one of your links:

The word "schizophrenia" is less than 100 years old. However the disease was first identified as a discrete mental illness by Dr. Emile Kraepelin in the 1887 and the illness itself is generally believed to have accompanied mankind through its history.

History of Schizophrenia

The above quote reflects what i posted, almost exactly.

The rest of my post is conjecture though...but how strange a coincidence can you get?

Personally, i think there have been many misdiagnosed cases, and the earliest ones, the cases which have lead professionals to understandably conclude Schizophrenia may have been responsible, was likely due to ergot poisoning and the like.

The symptoms of Ergot poisoning is almost identical to that of Schizophrenia, and was very common hundreds of years ago, probably thousands of years ago.

It is likely also a major factor in the belief of 'demonic possession', and could have actually been totally responsible for such occurences during the middle ages.

But...who knows.

ETA: Yes, i did read about those brain infecting parasites from a thread here...quite worrying but fascinating at the same time.

reply to post by MysterX

---

I think we are saying the same thing, Schizophrenia is just a word used to define the illness and it was used first about 100 years ago.

Thing is when you read the thread about the cat parasite it doesn't really say to me it causes Schizophrenia...many of the traits it says are not a bad thing to have
Mind you I love my kitty so Iam bound to say that .

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by MysterX

---

I think we are saying the same thing, Schizophrenia is just a word used to define the illness and it was used first about 100 years ago.

Thing is when you read the thread about the cat parasite it doesn't really say to me it causes Schizophrenia...many of the traits it says are not a bad thing to have
Mind you I love my kitty so Iam bound to say that .

I'm quite partial to a furry pussy myself.
Apologies...it's very late.

reply to post by MysterX

---

T. Gondii, or once the parasitic infection has taken hold, toxiplamosis.

Human's have domesticated cats for a very very long time, so your bit about the domestication of cats in France and schizophrenia being a definitive link to the beginning of the disorder is a misrepresentation of the facts.

Earliest known cases of domesticated cats date bake thousands of years in ancient Egypt. They worshiped cats, they kept them as pets, they treated them as gods. I find it rather hard to believe if the domestication of the cat was the sole cause, that we would not have heard of this disorder sooner.


As well, like it or not the symptoms of schizophrenia date back to the earliest recordings of mans behavior. The difference being, before man grew a heart and had an interest to the cause of disease of the body and mind everything was blamed on witches, curses, spirits and demonic possession.

So saying there is no know recorded cases of schizophrenia before the first in France is a stretch. The disease was not even recognized or named for generations after it's first appearances. Another point I would like to bring up is the fact that Psychosis and Schizophrenia though many view them one in the same are very different, but share very similar symptoms.

Psychosis can be triggered by stress, grief, sleep depravation, starvation, de-hydration, substance abuse and trauma. There have been recent studies to suggest a possible link between substance abuse and the development, or worsening of schizophrenia in those individuals capable of developing the disease. It is thought the potential for the disease is inherited, meaning if someone in your family has schizophrenia you could have the potential to develop the disease yourself, but at the same time you may not.

There have also been studies that suggest the possibility T. Gondii, or rather Toxiplasmosis can trigger or create the circumstances for individuals to develop schizophrenia, how ever very little is known about the disorder and it's causes.There is no known cure. As well ou very well could have schizophrenia with out developing the stereotypical symptoms many of us associate with the disease.

Symptoms of schizophrenia:

Social withdrawal
Hostility or suspiciousness
Deterioration of personal hygiene
Flat, expressionless gaze
Inability to cry or express joy
Inappropriate laughter or crying
Depression
Oversleeping or insomnia
Odd or irrational statements
Forgetful; unable to concentrate
Extreme reaction to criticism
Strange use of words or way of speaking
disorganized speech
neologisms(made up words)
repetition of words
meaningless use of Rhyming words
disorganized behavior
lack of emotional expression
No interest or enthusiasm
loss of interest in the world
Speech impediments/abnormalities
Delusions
Hallucinations, audio and visual
Clouded thoughts, loss of inner thought

Etc etc. The list is enormous.

Psychosis which is temporary also shares many similar symptoms with schizophrenia, especially those we assume schizophrenics will have.

hallucinations, delusions, catatonia, thought disorder, violent behavior to self or others, depression, panic attacks and impaired social cognition.

Schizophrenia is also a lot more common than people think, 1 out of ever 100 people will develop schizophrenia in their lifetimes. Schizophrenia is life long, it can be mild or extremely severe. Many patients commit suicide before ever getting the help they so desperately need. The media, and public need to get themselves informed and stop demonizing this horrible disorder.

reply to post by dreams n chains

---

" Schizophrenia is a lie told by the establishment"
The title starts out with the basis that Schizophrenia is a lie, or false, misrepresented truth. Doesn't matter how you spin it, it implies schizophrenia is made up.

As well, the op goes on to add supporting thoughts comments, and people he/she feels are involved in said lie.

As well, a few times in the thread the OP has mentioned, the fact he/she feels schizophrenia is not what we are lead to believe, and that perhaps it is caused by demons. How very renaissance if I might add.

I do believe many mental health disorders are misdiagnosed, and largely impart to the lack of available care to the patients. In the US it costs large sums of money to make multiple visits with a doctor, and proper mental health evaluations/diagnoses take time, and many doctors are very quick to make their judgments and prescribe medication which in some cases can make things a lot worse for the patient, especially if their needs and symptoms are not taken into account.

I'm curious to know more about your patients that have a through the veil ability. Always fascinated to hear more about others experiences with the para-normal, how ever I'm not entirely sure we can label all schizophrenics as having these experiences. Perhaps some have this as well as their disorders, and perhaps simply do see through the veil and have been labeled mentally ill.(By mainstream science they are absolutely ill,) but I entertain fringe science as well as real science. How ever, the disorder of schizophrenia can not always be attributed to such things. I know two schizophrenics personally, one has a some what mild form and hears constant chatter in their head when not on their medication. They live a normal life, work 9-5(I work with her actually.) The other is a young man, who has full on delusions, audio hallucinations, paranoia, erratic craziness. The entire time I've known him he has been on medication and does very well for himself. He is aware and open about his disorder, and the things he's told me are the things nightmares are made of. It's absolutely awful, and the whispering and judgment I've watched these two endure based on the fact they have the disorder is heart wrenching.

This is an issue close to my heart. Schizophrenia runs in my family. The most recently afflicted in my family tree both died before I met them. One of cardiac arrest, the other of complications from Huntington's Disease, whom I wasn't allowed to meet because of his advanced condition and my young age. Their mother, my great-grandmother, was known to have a sixth sense, and also spoke in tongues. Their father was taken away by the men in white coats in the late thirties. Why that was, or any other details about him haven't made it down to me in the present. I don't know what my great uncles went through, but I've been told they were both brilliant. One was an artist and a writer, and created imaginary worlds of a Tolkienesque scope. The other engineered and built home stereo systems for fun a decade before they were available commercially. Neither had a firm grip on what most people would call reality.
So what's my point? Well, now I'm developing a 'sixth sense'. I won't take take pains to describe what it's like in detail. There are enough people in my daily life with opinions I respect telling me I'm crazy because of it, I don't need to add internet strangers to the pile. Suffice it to say that most people would call what I experience hallucinations, and I can't argue that they're not. But they impart information. They tip me off to people about to walk around corners, phones about to ring, and cars that are about to cut me off. I can hear other peoples thoughts, and sometimes I can see them. I can feel other peoples emotions, and see their pain and physical afflictions. I've had weird experiences with time that can only be explained by madness or magic, with sane (as far as I can tell at least) witnesses. My experiences have caused me to make some funny changes to the way I think about causality. So what does psychiatry have to say about it?

Schizotypal personality disorder symptoms include:

Incorrect interpretation of events, including feeling that external events have personal meaning
Check.
Peculiar thinking, beliefs or behavior
Check.
Belief in special powers, such as telepathy
Check.
Perceptual alterations, in some cases bodily illusions, including phantom pains or other distortions in the sense of touch
Check.
Idiosyncratic speech, such as loose or vague patterns of speaking or tendency to go off on tangents
Check.
Suspicious or paranoid ideas
Check.
Flat emotions or inappropriate emotional responses
Check.
Lack of close friends outside of the immediate family
Check.
Persistent and excessive social anxiety that doesn't abate with time
Check.

Risk factors?

Having a relative who has schizophrenia or schizotypal personality disorder
Check.
Experiencing neglect or abuse during childhood
Check.
Having an emotionally detached parent
Check.
So it's cut and dry, I'm a textbook case. Totally off my rocker, saith the "experts". But if my hallucinations provide me with actionable and correct information, and I'm not hurting myself or anyone around me, can this condition really be called an illness? I don't think so. Sure, some days are more difficult than others, but everyone has their problems, and being able to see around corners is worth the trouble in my opinion. I've never wanted to be normal, and I want it even less if it means bearing the stigma of a diagnosis, taking a prescription to knock the edges of my mind and personality so I can fit in to a neat little box for some others convenience, AND losing my second amendment rights on top of it the way things are going.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my own experience has caused me to second guess the benefits of letting someone else tell me that my mind "should be" this, or "shouldn't be" that. It sounds like some other posters know people that suffer because of their conditions. I can't help but think things might have been different if they were brought up with some tolerance, instead of being treated like broken abominations that needed to be "fixed", or the demon possessed beyond salvation.

Just my $.02.
source for diagnostic criteria.

reply to post by Grifter42

---

And i say you are lying. I know for example of one guy who is suffering from severe schizophrenia and this person even thinks his own friends are cia spy, fbi or whatever including myself.
I know for a fact that I am not any kind of agent so that proves it right there that schizophrenia is very real.
He has all the other signs as well including lack of logic and not making any sense at all during his bad periods.

But I guess according to you he is just seeing into a dimension where all his friends just happen to be secret agents eh?

Originally posted by No_man4
This is an issue close to my heart. Schizophrenia runs in my family. The most recently afflicted in my family tree both died before I met them. One of cardiac arrest, the other of complications from Huntington's Disease, whom I wasn't allowed to meet because of his advanced condition and my young age. Their mother, my great-grandmother, was known to have a sixth sense, and also spoke in tongues. Their father was taken away by the men in white coats in the late thirties. Why that was, or any other details about him haven't made it down to me in the present. I don't know what my great uncles went through, but I've been told they were both brilliant. One was an artist and a writer, and created imaginary worlds of a Tolkienesque scope. The other engineered and built home stereo systems for fun a decade before they were available commercially. Neither had a firm grip on what most people would call reality.
So what's my point? Well, now I'm developing a 'sixth sense'. I won't take take pains to describe what it's like in detail. There are enough people in my daily life with opinions I respect telling me I'm crazy because of it, I don't need to add internet strangers to the pile. Suffice it to say that most people would call what I experience hallucinations, and I can't argue that they're not. But they impart information. They tip me off to people about to walk around corners, phones about to ring, and cars that are about to cut me off. I can hear other peoples thoughts, and sometimes I can see them. I can feel other peoples emotions, and see their pain and physical afflictions. I've had weird experiences with time that can only be explained by madness or magic, with sane (as far as I can tell at least) witnesses. My experiences have caused me to make some funny changes to the way I think about causality. So what does psychiatry have to say about it?

Schizotypal personality disorder symptoms include:

Incorrect interpretation of events, including feeling that external events have personal meaning
Check.
Peculiar thinking, beliefs or behavior
Check.
Belief in special powers, such as telepathy
Check.
Perceptual alterations, in some cases bodily illusions, including phantom pains or other distortions in the sense of touch
Check.
Idiosyncratic speech, such as loose or vague patterns of speaking or tendency to go off on tangents
Check.
Suspicious or paranoid ideas
Check.
Flat emotions or inappropriate emotional responses
Check.
Lack of close friends outside of the immediate family
Check.
Persistent and excessive social anxiety that doesn't abate with time
Check.

Risk factors?

Having a relative who has schizophrenia or schizotypal personality disorder
Check.
Experiencing neglect or abuse during childhood
Check.
Having an emotionally detached parent
Check.
So it's cut and dry, I'm a textbook case. Totally off my rocker, saith the "experts". But if my hallucinations provide me with actionable and correct information, and I'm not hurting myself or anyone around me, can this condition really be called an illness? I don't think so. Sure, some days are more difficult than others, but everyone has their problems, and being able to see around corners is worth the trouble in my opinion. I've never wanted to be normal, and I want it even less if it means bearing the stigma of a diagnosis, taking a prescription to knock the edges of my mind and personality so I can fit in to a neat little box for some others convenience, AND losing my second amendment rights on top of it the way things are going.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my own experience has caused me to second guess the benefits of letting someone else tell me that my mind "should be" this, or "shouldn't be" that. It sounds like some other posters know people that suffer because of their conditions. I can't help but think things might have been different if they were brought up with some tolerance, instead of being treated like broken abominations that needed to be "fixed", or the demon possessed beyond salvation.

Just my $.02.
source for diagnostic criteria.

No_man4, i'm certainly NO expert in these matters, and though i enjoy thinking in a way that has come to be known as 'outside of the box' / thought experiments or exercises, i don't have all the answers...LOTS of hypothesis and theories, but...well, you know.

But in my 'non-expert', out of the box opinion, you seem incredibly lucid for someone who is meant to be suffering from delusional thinking or vague patterns of thinking.

As you say, if you are no danger to yourself or others around you, and thinking of the benefits you mention in addition to the negatives, i see no reason to label you 'as crazy' simply because you might not fit into the box marked as 'normal' by the bulk of society.

Good post mate.

New Crop Circle Hackpen Hill Cube
  Posted 16 days ago with 92 member flags

Get ready to find yourself in a whirlwind of other worldly activity
  Posted 17 days ago with 50 member flags

Crop Circles Explained - Hidden Messages From Aliens & ET\'s ?
  Posted 13 days ago with 24 member flags

Man Made Ancient Pyramids Found on Antarctica???
  Posted 9 days ago with 23 member flags

The Flat Earth theory, With Interviews from believers
  Posted 1 days ago with 22 member flags

James Cameron the revealer & programmer?
  Posted 10 days ago with 9 member flags

Secrets Revealed 2
  Posted 16 days ago with 8 member flags

Mars: The Old Earth?
  Posted 10 days ago with 8 member flags

Newest topics, updated in real-time:

Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:

Newest topics getting replies, in real-time: