100,000 Innocent Iraqies Dead at the Hands of Bush (from ATSNN)

gg, that's pretty insensitive wouldn't you say?

let's say the number is 10,000 innocent, does that make it okay.

Do you know al of the American soldiers who have died? Neither do I, doesn't mean they deserved to.

imas, I am not confused. As you can tell by the way I feel about Kerry, I am not a victim of the "Kerry Machine". I haven't shrugged anything off. And I'm not saying that CNN is the end-all to be-all source for credible news.

Please tell me what I've shrugged off, I would more than happy to share my opinion on something.

And yes all politicians do lie!

Bush campaign spokesperson called the OBL tape a gift to the Bush reeleciton effort. He wants terror to be on the minds of people for the last four days leading up to the election.

RANT posted this link in another page:
www.nydailynews.com...

[edit on 30-10-2004 by ledbedder20]

Originally posted by lost1
100,000 dead Iraqis? Dont mourn for them. According to the "jihad", they just met martyrdom! w00t

It is obviously up to God how to treat deceased innocents, and I'm sure I don't know who is innocent and who is not. I do know, however that a callous attitude like this is condemned by every spiritual tradition in the world.

By civilized atheists, too.

Something kind of odd about this thread, it shows a 'next page' arrow and you click it then it takes you to a blank page, it keeps doing this all the way up to 100's of blank pages. Can somebody on staff check it out?

Originally posted by ledbedder20
I haven't shrugged anything off.

Please tell me what I've shrugged off, I would more than happy to share my opinion on something.

You think I said you shrugged something off? I'm really starting to wonder about you. Maybe you were just skimming my reply. Try again.

Originally posted by imas
When ever I talk to someone who feels the way you do I can point out the lies and deceit but it just gets shrugged off. They tell me "all polititians lie."

[edit on 31-10-2004 by imas]

Oh yeah and give me specific instances where Israel supported terrorism because I am not aware of any. Unless you consider self defense terrorism.

Sorry, I thought you were speaking about me since I am someone who feels the way I do.

So every car-bombing or grenade going off in a crowded market place, perpetrated by Israelis is okay? I know Palestinians are usually the aggressors, but geez, Israelis commit acts of terror too.

Is it just because they're our ally that you won't admit there are "terrorists" who committ acts of terror in Israel?

Originally posted by ledbedder20
Sorry, I thought you were speaking about me since I am someone who feels the way I do.

So every car-bombing or grenade going off in a crowded market place, perpetrated by Israelis is okay? I know Palestinians are usually the aggressors, but geez, Israelis commit acts of terror too.

Is it just because they're our ally that you won't admit there are "terrorists" who committ acts of terror in Israel?

It is because I am unaware of intentional acts or material support by the israeli government of any form of terrorism. They have used some unconventional techniques but I do not beleive that israel intentionally targets innocent palestinian civilians. The problem is that the palestinian terrorist mix into the population. I believe the Israeli Government has been honorable in the way they have conducted themselves despite the major controversy.

We went into afghanistan because of the attacks on 9/11.

Well the Israelis are attacked constantly by palestinian terrorists and alot more than 3000 israelis have died. Despite this fact the palestinian leadership has failed to do anything about it. Even some here in America think we were justified in invading afghanistan for their refusal to cooperate but think the Israelis are wrong to do the same thing in palestine. Saddam even gave the families of Pal. suicide bombers $25,000 to encourage them. Talk about links to terrorism.

[edit on 31-10-2004 by imas]

Originally posted by imas
It is because I am unaware of intentional acts or material support by the israeli government of any form of terrorism. They have used some unconventional techniques but I do not beleive that israel intentionally targets innocent palestinian civilians. The problem is that the palestinian terrorist mix into the population. I believe the Israeli Government has been honorable in the way they have conducted themselves despite the major controversy.
[edit on 31-10-2004 by imas]

Perhaps you are like the majority of Americans who are unaware of intentional Israeli terrorism because US news media have the policy to suppress reports of those actions.

Dr. Norman Finkelstein [Chicago] is a scholar specializing in Zionism and the Middle East. In his "Introduction to the Israel/Palestine Conflict" he reports:

Only the willfully blind could miss noticing that Israel's March-April invasion of the West Bank, "Operation Defensive Shield," was largely a replay of the June 1982 invasion of Lebanon. To crush the Palestinians' goal of an independent state alongside Israel - the PLO's "peace offensive" - Israel laid plans in September 1981 to invade Lebanon. In order to launch the invasion, however, it needed the green light from the Reagan administration and a pretext. Much to its chagrin and despite multiple provocations, Israel was unable to elicit a Palestinian attack on its northern border. It accordingly escalated the air assaults on southern Lebanon and after a particularly murderous attack that left two hundred civilians dead (including 60 occupants of a Palestinian children's hospital), the PLO finally retaliated, killing one Israeli. With the pretext in hand and a green light now forthcoming from the Reagan administration, Israel invaded. Using the same slogan of "rooting out Palestinian terror," Israel proceeded to massacre a defenseless population, killing some 20,000 Palestinians and Lebanese between June and September 1982, almost all civilians.

To read more of the history goto:
"Introduction to the Israel/Palestine Conflict"

Yeah I've read articles like that. They talk about this extreme Zionism. They just hate the Jewish people. I noticed how one sided that article was. It didn't address any attacks on Israel at all. It claimed that the Israelis want to prevent Palestinian independence. This is ridiculous the israelis are constantly on the defense. The palestinians and the rest of the middle east want to wipe israil of the map.

Again Israel retaliates for attacks on israeli civilians. The IDF makes every effort to keep innocent people from being hurt. Sometimes it cannot be prevented. The palestinians send the women and children to the front lines and send them out into harms way. They do this to make the IDF's job very difficult and to make them look evil when innocent people get caught in the crossfire.

The writter you are quoting is very one sided and conveniently leaves details like this out.

Why are the Israeli's always accused of trying to kill civilians when the opposite is true and writers like this one ignore the fact that the palestinians intentionally kill all israeli men, women, and children?

[edit on 31-10-2004 by imas]

Originally posted by imas
Yeah I've read articles like that. They talk about this extreme Zionism. They just hate the Jewish people.
[edit on 31-10-2004 by imas]

The author if that article is a Jewish person. Trying to pass off what he says by claiming he hates Jewish people is not a very realistic way of carrying on a discussion.

What is amazing is that the IDF will go kill a palestinian terrorist and the palestinian authority will claim that there was no terrorist. They claim the IDF came in and killed half a dozen women and children.

Its a bunch of lies. The palestinians are always exagerating the death tolls and lying about WHO was actually killed.

The fact is our government has the intelligence capabilities to look into these matters and we would not sponser the kind of sensless killing that the palestinians are always claiming.

Every nation will eventually turn against Israel including the US. It won't be because they are terrorists either.

Originally posted by Fu Manchu

The author if that article is a Jewish person. Trying to pass off what he says by claiming he hates Jewish people is not a very realistic way of carrying on a discussion.

He is falling into the same patterns and using the same points as many of those that hate the Jewish people. Like I said he is very one sided. There are many americans that accuse the US of sensless and intentional mass slayings of civilians (this thread included) but the fact they are American doesn't make it true. It just means I may be wrong about the writters ideology.

[edit on 31-10-2004 by imas]

Originally posted by edsinger
So its all Bush's Fault huh?

Yes, it's all Bush's fault. If instead of the greed for oil he had shown to be a sincere leader who cares about the innocent people, he would have setup an assassination and killed Saddam and supported a party favorable to the US government.

Take a look at what Bushies and friends are cooking:
Rebuilding America's Defenses

Nice double standard the republican president has...

It's not ok to have an abortion, but it's ok to kill innocent iraqi children.

Dispicable.

Originally posted by TrueLies
Nice double standard the republican president has...

It's not ok to have an abortion, but it's ok to kill innocent iraqi children.

Dispicable.

Yeah I heard Bush say that the other day. He is such a violent, uncaring man.

Now that the election is over, I'm curious about how many people still believe this story was true.

Anyone out there still buying this "100,000 Innocent Iraqies Dead at the Hands of Bush" claim?

How, and why?

Originally posted by Majic
Now that the election is over, I'm curious about how many people still believe this story was true.

Anyone out there still buying this "100,000 Innocent Iraqies Dead at the Hands of Bush" claim?

How, and why?

Whats not to believe about the claim? The U.S. military does not go around taking numbers on collateral damage. All the information we get about these statistics from other sources can be taken at face value until proven otherwise.

I believe it b/c it was a major research study which internationally published it's findings. If it was the democratic party releasing this, I would second guess it, but it's not. What if it was half of what they report, 50,000. Does that make it any easier for you to sleep at night?

Even if the number was 10,000, that's alot of "casualties of war" for civilians.

Originally posted by imas

Originally posted by Fu Manchu

The author if that article is a Jewish person. Trying to pass off what he says by claiming he hates Jewish people is not a very realistic way of carrying on a discussion.

He is falling into the same patterns and using the same points as many of those that hate the Jewish people. Like I said he is very one sided. There are many americans that accuse the US of sensless and intentional mass slayings of civilians (this thread included) but the fact they are American doesn't make it true. It just means I may be wrong about the writters ideology.
[edit on 31-10-2004 by imas]

From a number of things you have said, I observe that anyone not pledging allegiance to the current neo-con, zionist fanaticism that has captured the US Federal Gov't gets tagged as "falling into the same patterns and using the same points as many who hate the Jewish people."

Especially when you accuse Jewish scholars of being bedfellows with "those who hate the Jewish people," I think it is time to re-examine the mental programming you have been given and under which you labor. There are hundreds of thousands of Jews, perhaps millions, who disagree with Israel's racist and militaristic policies. [After all, more than 50 years after it's birth, the State of Israel has only one third or less of the worlds Jewish population. For many years it was widely remarked that New York State had more Jews than the State of Israel! This is no longer true, though.]

There are billions of non-Jews who similarly disagree. If it were not for the fact that the U.S. and the other 4 victors of WWII set up the United Nations so that they could veto any Security Council resolution, Israel would be condemned in the same terms as Saddam was. In General Assembly votes on Israel's violations of the UN Charter, it is regularly the entire world on one side and Israel, the USA and one or two chumps that the US buys off with foreign aid in exchange for their votes, like Micronesia. Israel is regularly condemned in the court of world opinion.

In the Security Council, however, --where all the enforcement resides-- EVERY resolution against Israel is regularly vetoed by the USA. The USA has used it's veto on behalf of Israel more than any other of the Big Five has used their veto power, total, for any reason.

Like I said he is very one sided.

Actually he has a number of different points to make. What make him seem "one sided" is that American Zionist propaganda has presented you and millions of others with only ONE SIDE. Anything violating that programming immediately stikes the programmee as "outrageously one sided!"

There are many americans that accuse the US of sensless and intentional mass slayings of civilians (this thread included) but the fact they are American doesn't make it true.

I agree, that in itself, does not make it true. But if the vast majority of the planet thinks differently than you, it would seem to be a hint that maybe the ones who are being controlled and manipulated are the 1% minority, the pro-Zionist Americans, and not the rest of the world.

As a thought experiment, it might be interesting for you, and those others who have been so indoctrinated, to just take one week. In that week assume [for the sake of the experiment] that EVERYTHING you have been told about history and politics is a lie. Try to find reputable sources to build up an alternative explanation for the world as it now seems to be.

The internet makes that possible. I remember back in the 1960's trying to locate English editions of European newspapers with some difficulty. Now the world Press is a few keystrokes away.

Use it while it lasts.

Originally posted by Fu Manchu
I agree, that in itself, does not make it true. But if the vast majority of the planet thinks differently than you, it would seem to be a hint that maybe the ones who are being controlled and manipulated are the 1% minority, the pro-Zionist Americans, and not the rest of the world.

First you told me I have been brain washed by the US government and then you told me that the entire world disagrees with me. Which is it?

What reason does the US government have to launch this giant cover up evidence of israeli terrorism and wrong doing? Does the US benefit some how? We have poured money and support into Israel and Palestine. What does that do for us?

I didn't take my beliefs on israel from american history books so I don't think I have been brain washed. Everything I know about Israel I have learned on my own. I have not been taught anything about it. So I would challenge you to follow your own advice and look at the other side.

You say Israel is a terrorist nation because they have had a high number of civilian casualties. Yet you didn't mention the fact that the palestinians have repeatedly placed women and children in combat zones to catch bullets. This makes a situation much more difficult for the Israelis. The palestinians are always claiming huge numbers of civilian casualties even when they don't have a body count to back it up. They also claim time and time again that terrorist fighters who are killed were innocent civilians. Oh wait I have just been brainwashed into thinking Hamas is a terrorist organization is that it? There is nothing terrorist about car bombs or suicide bombers. That is just a peaceful protest to the neo con evil zionist israeli suppression.

What about the thousands of innocent israelis who have been killed? Do the israelis have a right to defend themselves? Or is there nothing to defend themselves from. Is the american government (for no reason or benefit) inventing all these stories of buses and cafes being blown to pieces? Did they fabricate the lists of israeli names and pictures of people who were "killed" by palestinian "peaceful protesters." Oh I get it maybe the Israelis are really behind all these "suicide bombings."

Trust me I have good info and before I researched it I knew nothing. I didn't learn about israel in school or from the media. I know people who live in Israel and have had regular discussions with them. I have talked to these people and they have served in the IDF and they are not evil baby killers. They are very much like any person you would meet in a civilized nation. I have an american friend who moved to Israel until she became homesick.

You know each israeli is expected to serve in the IDF right? If so many of them are against this evil zionist agenda then why aren't they taking more care not to injure innocent palestinians? I know why. Because they already are.