Penalties for smokers (Obamacare)

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posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 12:49 PM
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“We have to pass the (health care) bill so you can find out what is in it”.




posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 06:52 PM
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Look like I won't be getting insurance. I'll just pay my fine.

How are they gonna test for this? If you smell like smoke?


I've read they have to be careful with looking at blood results to begin with because even second hand smoke can make you look like a smoker. What about people who chew nicotine gum or vape?

Looks like if you live with a smoker that smokes in the house you're screwed. You'll smell like and test positive for cigarettes.

As a side note: Can I go back to paying $2 for a pack of smokes? Maybe I could afford insurance then.
edit on 1/25/2013 by ashtonhz8907 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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Cigarettes cause cancer because of the additives and chemicals the Gov puts in them. They also put in additives to make them more addictive. Pure tobacco is actually beneficial for certain things. So they poison smokers, and charge taxes, higher insurance and make them into "murderers", when they are the ones putting in the poison. Nice.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by be4peace
 


Most of it is the actual "burning" just like a certain medicine that is against federal law can cause cancer just as much as a cigarette.

Yes it has been proven though nicotine is beneficial and even has improved performance of athletes that never used it before.

Though you do make a good point the actual chemicals put into a packaged cigarettes is horrible for you more so that pure tobacco. Still just as unhealthy though.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by Yngvarr
 


Nicotine is a stimulant. Stims don't stay in the bloodstream very long compared to fat-solluble molecules (if you catch my drift).

If you're going in for a physical, stop smoking for like a week. It'll be rough so buy something to chew on and ride it out. I'm not 100% sure, but I think you'd be safe after a week.

You might also want to wash your coat before you visit the doctor too



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:18 PM
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I think we should just ban insurance companies. Screw them all, its a total scam. There doesnt need to be this giant price inflator between you and your doctor, continuously pushing up prices and creating medicine into money.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by ashtonhz8907
 


And this is why I smoke American Spirits, they do not add anything extra to the tobacco. American Spirit also makes a line of organic, additive-free cigarettes.

I can't smoke anything else these days. All of the other major cigarette brands taste horible. They litterally taste like a bunch of burning chemicals.

I've turned a few people onto them. Sure they may cost a tad bit more, but it's almost like getting a pack and a half, or two packs vs. one. Once you go natural/additive-free, you won't want to go back to those old cowboy killers.

Besides not having all those nasty additives, they also have more tobacco in them. My friend can smoke two Camels or Marb Reds to one of my American Spirits. They are also good "boat cigarettes" because they stay lit better when it's windy. I know commercial fishermen who smoke them.

American Spirit is owned by RJ Reynolds (disclaimer) but they were only recently bought and they are allowed to keep their product and the way they run things pretty much the same. I put myself on their mailing list for coupons, and every year for my birthday I get a t-shirt or something from them (in addition to sweet coupons). This year they sent some seeds to plant outside!

edit on 25-1-2013 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by jimmiec
“We have to pass the (health care) bill so you can find out what is in it”.


If a politician were to say that, they'd get run out of politics!!!

Wait a second....... I think I remember that one...

Nah, I must have dreamed it.... Carry on.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 08:05 PM
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Everyone knows commercial cigs are a health risk.
I understand the insurance companies to a certain extent. However, it comes to a vast difference between smoking styles and this black and white picture does not help. I have an E-Vapor which is a huge aid in stopping and before, I used only a couple of handrolled cigarettes. If I could get my hands on organic tobacco like American Spirit, all the better. But E-vapor is even better. No soot, no paper, and regulated amounts of nicotine. Some liquids are even without nicotine.
And I agree, bad tailpipe exhaust is far more dangerous. It is not penalized at all in the country where I live now, and sometimes I was sick for a week from a single bad exposure.
They used to give you a 100 dollar fine in Baltimore, MD when I lived there in the early nineties if your tailpipe exhaust was visible.

Another environmental problem is invisible but perhaps just as dangerous as public smoking: talking on cell phones in public transportation vehicles. Even if someone does not like this type of radiation, lives in an area relatively spared from it, and generally uses headsets when he wants to use a phone, when several people are talking in a tram car and the EM radiation is being reverted from all six sides of the vehicle blindly, with reception signals automatically boosted, every caller gives a future headache to all those nearby.
In our country now you are forbidden to use cells in post offices, doctor's offices and pharmacies.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 08:38 PM
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You want to know how all of this fits together....??? Allow me to tell a personal story and you connect the dots.

I was born into a very Southern (redneck) Family... I am gay... and even though my family loves and accepts me, as a closeted 17 year old; I became extremely depressed with the thought of alienation. I withdrew from life and became very distant... long story short... my worried parents sent me to a therapist.

This "doctor" tried numerous amounts of medication which made the problem worse. And I don't know if you all are aware, but SSRI's are not a cure for anything. They color the world and cause mania... I know this from first hand experience. The problems we allude via these "false" solutions still remain, [i.e. homosexuality and the stigmas surrounding it.] regardless how many pills you get pumped into you. And instead of accepting myself, I chose to follow the doctors orders.

To make a longer story even shorter... these "pills" changed me even further. Instead of being a cautious intelligent person, it made me a inquisitive-social person. It changed my personality and I ended up putting myself in situations I wouldn't have otherwise.

While on a certain anti-depressant... and after coming out as a gay man. I happened to walk in on my partner in the throws of passion... in our bedroom... with someone else. I can't explain what happened, but something very evil took over me. I feel into a DEEP DARK depression, which still is around me.

After an attempt at suicide [thankfully it was just an attempt]; once again more medicine was pushed upon me. With nerves wrecked, a life spinning out of control, I turned to drinking... drinking lead to cigarettes... cigarettes lead elsewhere.

Now I fight addiction on a daily basis... thankfully, the cost of cigarettes keeps the drinking and the other at bay.

So the point of this confession is this... had I lived in a world that TRULY propagated equality, I wouldn't have been forced into the hands of a quack psychologist, whose soul profession is that of a drug pusher.

Yes it is a choice to smoke that initial cigarette, but once the hooks are in, they are in.

Yes, it is a soft-kill weapon.

Yes, it is designed for the aim of chemical dependance.

YES!!! it is used as a socio-economic weapon... but now with "Obamacare", the scope with which this weapon can be used is boarder-line exponential!

The facts are this... their are two sides to every system. It is far easier for the Negative Side to control the Positive side. Fear sells better than love, especially to a society that is self-serving and self-centered.

The Devil will not come to you as an enemy!!! He will be your best friend!

Excuse me will I smoke another cigarette! And yes I will hate myself later... no need to tell me to go to Hell. I already live here.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by HappyLIBERTARIAN
This country f'n sucks. About ready to move out of this chit hole. The double standard is just amazing in this country. I hope they tax hospitals a chit ton. My wife's aunt just got mrsa when she was in the hospital and died. Do we hear any people asking why someone like my illegal neighbor who had a baby, who is now a citizen since she was born here and has heart troubles, can get numerous surgeries at the cost of taxpayers, yet I pay an extra 1270 dollars a year already by smoking a pack a day in taxes.

I don't drink, I eat right, have been smoking for 25 years, and barely ever have to go to the doctor. I pay my dang insurance every year, while barely using the stupid thing. Shouldn't all of that add up throughout the years, and then when I need to use it IF I were to get complications from smoking? I'm telling you, we are just getting screwed on all levels.

All of the lazy, able bodied, poor people, get to collect our hard earned tax money on welfare, and receive top of the line insurance with only $1 copays. Yeah, nothing like rewarding people for being lazy, fat, and dumb. Oh the U.S.S.A! Got to love it. I just want to thank all of you who voted for this anti-liberty, collectivist, globalist, so called president to ruin this country. I appreciate it so much.


Exactly........

I pay full price co-pays while my sister pays only $3. I'm telling you it's annoying and it's so true. She pays into nothing, I work and pay. I go to school and tuition pays a little into, and still have to pay the co-pays, that I get nothing out of it. I rarely ever go to the doctors. Only twice last year have I ever gone to the doctors. I have to pay health through my job plus pay health through my school and when I need to go to the doctors, I still get billed over $100. When she goes to the doctors, she pays nothing...???? No wonder she doesn't want to work, she's already getting everything for free. Once you start working your going to have to pay, pay, pay. Gosh, I can't even keep up with it all.
edit on 25-1-2013 by Manhater because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by KawRider9
 


I 100% agree with the penalties.

Smoking is a voluntary action that is causing a major healthcare issue and costing a lot of money for the rest of us.

There is a very simple solution if you don't like the penalties....stop smoking.


I think this provides an avenue for compelling people to give up their guns. I recall in a threat about Obama's executive action, there is a lot of stuff about the health system and ensuring information can be shared regarding gun ownership.

If I were Obama and wanted to get rid of guns without an out right ban, I would make owners pay huge health insurance premiums. I would claim that having a gun in the house statistically means you are more likely to be shot, being shot costs the health system a lot of money, therefore, gun owners must pay more in premiums.

Guns won't be banned, but owning one will mean you must pay a significant amount of money each year for your mandatory health insurance.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 10:57 PM
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For my part, I think the government should never have the ability to take freedoms from people who have not broken any laws, period.

I don't care what the "reasons" are, there is no rightful cause for one group of people to dictate non-criminal behavior to another.

That is my opinion. Think of it what you will.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 01:05 AM
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Love my Canadian Indian Reserve cigarettes at 18 dollars a carton



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by KawRider9
Really? Obese, bad back, heart problems, meh, you're good!

Well, obesity is often a lifestyle choice, just like smoking is a lifestyle choice. But people don't choose to have bad backs or heart problems. I have no idea why you are associating those things.

But why would you want more people to have to pay more no matter the case?



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by KawRider9
 


It just shows the bias of the Healthcare Act and those who pushed it on us. They are forcing companies to cover pre existing conditions, but if you are a smoker, the health police are going to penalize you. I'm surprised they didn't pick on obesity though. That is Muchelle's little bugaboo. Govt should just get out of it, but Obama and friends are Statists and want centralized control of everything.
Ultimately it is about more govt control over our lives, and redistribution of income as well.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 02:25 AM
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guys smoke inside of you on a very regular basis is NOT A GOOD THING!!

200-300 chemicals including rat poison is not a good thing.

You guys are just addicts defending your vices and nothing more.

I'm sorry to say.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 03:06 AM
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I'm usually the last one to support Uncle Sugar taking our money to fund his excess. However, this is something of a different case because the vice does bring the cost and that will, for most people, be how they die if not by accident or misadventure before then.

9/10 threads about smoking I don't say much because I promised myself I'd never be one of those obnoxious former smokers turned fanatic, I smoked from age 13 to my late 30's. I stopped the patches and so the very last nicotine was on April 15, 2010. I figured the date ought to be good for something. I also told myself all those years that hey, people in my family smoked and live fine. My parents smoked and lived fine...and well, that cough is just part of life and dirty air anyway.

Then I watched my father die from smoking related cancer and it was a bad death by any measure. Nothing anyone wants to go through and that's what it took for me to accept, yes, the damn things ARE fatal and they will kill the majority of smokers ....in a hard way. That's also EXPENSIVE, as I learned processing all the medical paperwork as executor to his estate. VERY expensive.

Patches and Zyban is how I quit and it CAN be done. If I can..anyone can..and that cough is *NOT* normal. I can take stairs two at a time now and NOT be winded......like I've never done in my adult OR teen life. I shouldn't have to pay for the stubborn choice to keep smoking by others when now we flat know how dangerous they actually are.

It's as much chemical as tobacco these days and yet so many are mad about GMO or pollution? Whats smoking?
edit on 26-1-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Smoking on the other hand is not a health issue that just happens to you. You arent born smoking and an accident wont cause you to begin smoking.

It's 100% you're own fault.

I'd personally like to see the obese pay more too.

Makes no sense to be punished for living a healthy life to pay for the poor health of others when they caused it to themselves.


That is a nice excuse for the Obamacare proponents and insurance companies to use, but it kinda falls apart when you consider how they jacked free abortions into the bill and mandate treatment of STDs at zero or reduced cost. Last time I checked most sexual encounters are just as much a choice as jamming a ciggy into your mouth and lighting it are.

Face facts, this is social engineering and forced behavior modification. Furthermore, it is starting down EXACTLY the path those of us who said Obamacare is a disgrace said it would take. Once the ultimate bill for your health falls (potentially) onto the tax payers' shoulders, the government has a license to dictate what you may and may not do and issue stiff penalties and price gouging policies to ensure you follow their desired path. In other words; the USA become Singapore.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 04:24 AM
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Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by KawRider9
Really? Obese, bad back, heart problems, meh, you're good!

Well, obesity is often a lifestyle choice, just like smoking is a lifestyle choice. But people don't choose to have bad backs or heart problems. I have no idea why you are associating those things.

But why would you want more people to have to pay more no matter the case?


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

You know what folks used to be able to choose? This was a long, long time back... nearly, oh, LAST YEAR. Americans could choose whether or not to carry health insurance. Imagine that! A man who smoked, who acknowledged "Well, damn, yeah I'm killing myself... but it is MY body afterall" could have walked into an insurance company, been told his habit would cost him several thousand extra dollars, and opted to walk right back out the door to resume living his life his way, devoid of Big Brother "caring for him and his needs." *Blech*

That used to be called Freedom and it was actually valued in this country and envied by the world. Somewhere along the way meddlers and fiddlers got involved, American leaders for inexplicable reasons apologized to the world for America's freedom, and set about to save us all from ourselves. Of course I used to stupidly think the people leading the USA didn't completely SUCK. I guess mistakes were made by all, eh?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.





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